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08/02/2007 03:44:33 AM · #1 |
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08/02/2007 05:31:39 AM · #2 |
| i definitely agree with the quiet minority |
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08/02/2007 07:01:36 AM · #3 |
| I am not bitter about the teams in the slightest, I think its a good way for some to learn and bounce ideas arounds. But its of no interest to me, I prefer the challenge rather than the competition. |
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08/02/2007 12:05:15 PM · #4 |
One misconception is to think that if the DPL disappeared the sharing of pictures with critique in mind would also disappear. I think this is 100% incorrect.
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08/02/2007 12:11:07 PM · #5 |
I think the problem people have is not about showing pictures to friends and family for a critique, but the brainstorming of and refining of challenge entry ideas with a group of photographers on the site.
It's at this point that the shot becomes a group effort. |
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08/02/2007 12:27:52 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
I think the problem people have is not about showing pictures to friends and family for a critique, but the brainstorming of and refining of challenge entry ideas with a group of photographers on the site.
It's at this point that the shot becomes a group effort. |
I'm a bit confused by the idea that mentoring, sharing and refinement didn't exist or wasn't common before WPL/DPL. Nothing could be further from the truth.
~Terry
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08/02/2007 12:32:01 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I'm a bit confused by the idea that mentoring, sharing and refinement didn't exist or wasn't common before WPL/DPL. Nothing could be further from the truth. |
Perhaps I am misunderstanding how DPC operates. In the other thread Jason also mentions how getting feedback is an important part of shot development, and now you're saying that sharing and refinement of challenge ideas is common.
So where on the site can I go to get feedback on my challenge ideas, or input from other photographers on how to improve my shots prior to submitting them? |
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08/02/2007 12:44:15 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
I think the problem people have is not about showing pictures to friends and family for a critique, but the brainstorming of and refining of challenge entry ideas with a group of photographers on the site.
It's at this point that the shot becomes a group effort. |
Exactly. In addition, when that group effort is used to compete against a group of people that don't have the benefit of such support it becomes an unfair advantage. Taking an unfair advantage is usually called cheating. I for one was surprised to see an SC member (ClubJuggle) advocating such behavior.
In another thread, people are tearing Barry Bonds apart because he cheats by using steroids. However, when someone here uses an unfair advantage to win a ribbon he gets praised. What's up with that? Doesn't honor and fairness mean anything to you people?
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08/02/2007 12:51:45 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
So where on the site can I go to get feedback on my challenge ideas, or input from other photographers on how to improve my shots prior to submitting them? |
If you find it, let me know. Your best bet is to use another photography site, gather feedback & opinions, then submit it here for a challenge. The anonymity thing makes it difficult to do here without getting dinged for it.
Personally I don't have time for that much effort, as well indicated by my scores. :P Good luck!
edit - typo.
Message edited by author 2007-08-02 12:52:16. |
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08/02/2007 12:57:18 PM · #10 |
Sorry people. This is only a game. You get ribbons that are fake.
I barly have time to take a few pictures 30 minutes before the end of the challenge to get them up. (Luckily, I'm on the west coast, so deadline is 9pm not midnight.) I have a wife and family. I don't have the time or energy to ribbon.
Who cares! Shut up shoot when you can. Maybe you'll win a ribbon. Of course, I wish there was actually a brown ribbon given. I am only fortunately enough to get one of those. |
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08/02/2007 01:29:33 PM · #11 |
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08/02/2007 01:35:18 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I'm a bit confused by the idea that mentoring, sharing and refinement didn't exist or wasn't common before WPL/DPL. Nothing could be further from the truth.
~Terry |
This is very surprising to hear. I recall many threads from the past referring to that activity as "cheating". I guess because the system prevents DPL team members from voting on each others entries, it is acceptable? But in the past, whether collaborators voted on each others images was never the issue with regards to the claims of cheating.
For what it's worth, I am not at all a fan of the idea of collaborating - especially by groups formed from the top talent on DPC - that said, it doesn't discourage me personally, but it obviously does many others and it does seem to run contrary to the spirit of the challenges and inconsistent with past policies.
On the other hand, what would DPC be without all the popcorn-consuming controversy??
eta: Dang!  naldslc beat me to the popcorn!
Message edited by author 2007-08-02 13:36:46. |
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08/02/2007 01:48:25 PM · #13 |
No problem Ken I saved you a seat.
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08/02/2007 01:54:19 PM · #14 |
Perhaps the "brainstorming" I mentioned was overinterpreted by some people. Out of all our entries, I can only think of two that were the product of one photographer shooting another photographer's idea. That's two out of (I'll have to look) 68 entries for the season.
You can see in the thread that the idea for the shot was purely my own. I had 100% of it there in the very first thread. So "brainstorming" was basically, "this is what I'm thinking of shooting, will it work?" not "who's got an idea for me?"
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08/02/2007 01:59:18 PM · #15 |
Stop moaning and kick some damn HOGBUTT!
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08/02/2007 02:08:20 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
I think the problem people have is not about showing pictures to friends and family for a critique, but the brainstorming of and refining of challenge entry ideas with a group of photographers on the site. |
The problem I have is with the arrogant assumptions being made when the real extent and value of the supposed conversations is unknown. It should be obvious that we each know enough to be successful independently- my teammates had several ribbons in the "off" weeks that didn't even involve the DPL. I have no doubt that the results would have been exactly the same without ANY team discussion, which in our case was mainly limited to ensuring that we had enough entries and indicating whether or not we liked an already-completed entry.
Heck, in this week alone... Librodo didn't participate in the thread at all, De Sousa's entry was a reshoot after missing the Paper deadline (we didn't see it then either), mine was taken 3 hours before the deadline when only Jason and Jorge were awake, DrAchoo and Larus entered photos very much in their subject and processing style, and Alex's entry was a common DPC cliche (albeit well-executed). This week's ribbons were not a result of collaboration, but an indication of how much individual effort we put forth out of respect for the talent of Team 20D.
Message edited by author 2007-08-02 14:10:44. |
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08/02/2007 02:16:14 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
I'm a bit confused by the idea that mentoring, sharing and refinement didn't exist or wasn't common before WPL/DPL. Nothing could be further from the truth. |
Perhaps I am misunderstanding how DPC operates. In the other thread Jason also mentions how getting feedback is an important part of shot development, and now you're saying that sharing and refinement of challenge ideas is common.
So where on the site can I go to get feedback on my challenge ideas, or input from other photographers on how to improve my shots prior to submitting them? |
Find a friend here, make them promise not to vote on your image, then photoshare with them and ask for critique :) |
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08/02/2007 02:35:32 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
This week's ribbons were not a result of collaboration, but an indication of how much individual effort we put forth out of respect for the talent of Team 20D. |
That cannot be overstated.
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08/03/2007 07:25:13 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by jhonan:
I think the problem people have is not about showing pictures to friends and family for a critique, but the brainstorming of and refining of challenge entry ideas with a group of photographers on the site. |
The problem I have is with the arrogant assumptions being made when the real extent and value of the supposed conversations is unknown. It should be obvious that we each know enough to be successful independently- my teammates had several ribbons in the "off" weeks that didn't even involve the DPL. I have no doubt that the results would have been exactly the same without ANY team discussion, which in our case was mainly limited to ensuring that we had enough entries and indicating whether or not we liked an already-completed entry.
Heck, in this week alone... Librodo didn't participate in the thread at all, De Sousa's entry was a reshoot after missing the Paper deadline (we didn't see it then either), mine was taken 3 hours before the deadline when only Jason and Jorge were awake, DrAchoo and Larus entered photos very much in their subject and processing style, and Alex's entry was a common DPC cliche (albeit well-executed). This week's ribbons were not a result of collaboration, but an indication of how much individual effort we put forth out of respect for the talent of Team 20D. |
What he said :)
I also feel like people are seriously overestimating the amount of "collaboration" and frankly if it will make people feel better I wouldn´t mind at all if our team thread was open to public after the season ends so they can just see for themselves. |
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08/03/2007 08:35:58 AM · #20 |
| I really don't think it matters how much collaboration there was in brain storming. Go for it, I don't think anyone needs to question your methods or workflow. I don't think any of you need help getting a ribbon...you have proven that time and time again. If other people see their goal as getting a ribbon then I suggest they study your porfolios, and then they will have your input too... |
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08/03/2007 10:21:53 AM · #21 |
Hey hogs crew, don't worry about the few that moan, they will always moan about anything, I think what you guys need to be thinking about is the fact that next season TEAM GLASSEYE gonna be frying us some bacon!
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08/03/2007 03:12:26 PM · #22 |
I personally think the team threads can make you better and pay more attention to detail. I would expect my team to move up to division A next time and will begin our total domination!
form the thread this was linked from I am disappointed and have lost all respect for some people I liked before.very sad. |
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08/03/2007 03:20:02 PM · #23 |
Personally I am thrilled at the level of competition ever since the leagues started. With so much pressure, my side line business of editing challenge images for people has grown about 3000% and am nearly ready to close my business and make a go at it full-time. Still a few people that haven't got their Paypal accounts straightened out and still owe me for a couple of ribbon-winning shots *cough Achoo*, but hey, I'm flexible.
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08/03/2007 03:25:10 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Brad:
... my side line business of editing challenge images for people has grown about 3000% ... |
LOL! :D |
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08/03/2007 03:35:08 PM · #25 |
I was especially happy that I had thought out ahead of time to actually form a contract, and stipulate that the fee would be 50% additional should said images be awarded 1st, 2nd or 3rd place. No additional fee was imposed for Honorable mentions, or awarded ribbons after the fact should someone else's shot be bumped up in case of it being disqualified. I do have a heart ya' know.
Anyone know how to get the greenish ink off my hands?
I've been counting so much money lately my hands are getting stained.
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