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01/17/2004 05:11:28 AM · #1 |
I have posted a lot of forum conversations but I am already confused.
I am only a beginner with Digital Photography, I've never had any digital cameras. But I want a good camera, with very good lenses, light and not very expensive (my budget for the camera and some accesories is $1200).
After seeing a lot of cameras I opted for sony dsc-f717 but when I was completely sure I found out that the new sony dsc-f828 was available.
And now I cannot make up my mind.
What do you think about it?
Think that I am only a beginner and the new sony eyesore could be to much for me.
THANKS!!! |
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01/17/2004 05:28:01 AM · #2 |
The specs on the 828 is a lot better then the 717. The 717 has been out a while and not too many complaints. The 828 seems to have a lot of noise because of the high pixel count.
If you have to buy a camera soon I would stick with the 717. If you can wait maybe some improvements on the 828 would be made. At the same time you can PM some of the people that has the 828 and ask them for their opinion on it.
Like all new items there maybe bugs when they first come out. |
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01/17/2004 05:43:47 AM · #3 |
Agree with fadoi, F717 is proven and a good camera.
F828 is new, has some great extra features like extra wide angle, manual zoom, etc but at the moment seems to have two issues :
1) high noise at higher ISO values (64 and 100 ISO are o.k.)
2) more purple fringing/chromatic abberation in high contrasts areas than other digitial camera's in the same class.
the dpreview.com sony forum is full of people having extreme opinions on the F828. If you want opinions, with the risk of getting more confused, have a look over there.
I am not going for the F828 until the noise and CA issues have been addressed, but I have already a camera, so am not under pressure.
Message edited by author 2004-01-17 05:44:18.
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01/17/2004 06:40:58 AM · #4 |
Thanks for your advices.
I won't buy the camera until July. Will an update of the dsc-f828 be available by this time?
But isn't the dsc-f828 too profesional for me?
Other problem is the storage!! Its photos of 8MP take up a lot of MB!!
So I must buy a greater stick!!
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01/17/2004 06:51:29 AM · #5 |
If you have that much money to spend, have you considered thinking about DSLR? You could afford a Canon EOS-300D (Digital Rebel in the states) and a couple of lenses wit $1200. DSLR in my opinion is far superior to any prosumer camera.
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01/17/2004 06:57:32 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Konador:
If you have that much money to spend, have you considered thinking about DSLR? You could afford a Canon EOS-300D (Digital Rebel in the states) and a couple of lenses wit $1200. DSLR in my opinion is far superior to any prosumer camera. |
I've seen Canon EOS-300D, but what has a digital reflex camera got that hasn't got a normal one?
Because what you see in the LCD or in the viewfinder is what the CCD will see.
Am I wrong?
And while you are taking the photo you can't see it in the LCD. And that is a pity!!
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01/17/2004 07:01:54 AM · #7 |
The LCD thing is a small disadvantage compared to the many advatages, and you'll get used to it VERY quickly. The speed of focus on DSLRs is much much much faster, the picture quality is so much better, and the noise, even at ISO 1600 is minimal. The ability to upgrade lenses instead of upgrading the camera is also very good.
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01/17/2004 07:20:54 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by Konador:
The LCD thing is a small disadvantage compared to the many advatages, and you'll get used to it VERY quickly. The speed of focus on DSLRs is much much much faster, the picture quality is so much better, and the noise, even at ISO 1600 is minimal. The ability to upgrade lenses instead of upgrading the camera is also very good. |
The focus speed on the 828 is pretty fast (1.4s in complete darkness at telephoto if i remember) and at lower ISO the picture quality of the 828 will be as good or even better than with the 300d due to the higher pixels count and the 4 color CCD, wich is ok for me because I never shoot anything above ISO 100. But I agree with you, once you put your eye on a DSLR viewfinder, the LCD becomes a small advantage for most people. For myself both the LCD and the electronic viewfinder together, are not worth the DSLR viewfinder.
Message edited by author 2004-01-17 07:22:20.
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01/17/2004 07:45:24 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by nicklevy:
Originally posted by Konador:
The LCD thing is a small disadvantage compared to the many advatages, and you'll get used to it VERY quickly. The speed of focus on DSLRs is much much much faster, the picture quality is so much better, and the noise, even at ISO 1600 is minimal. The ability to upgrade lenses instead of upgrading the camera is also very good. |
The focus speed on the 828 is pretty fast (1.4s in complete darkness at telephoto if i remember) and at lower ISO the picture quality of the 828 will be as good or even better than with the 300d due to the higher pixels count and the 4 color CCD, wich is ok for me because I never shoot anything above ISO 100. But I agree with you, once you put your eye on a DSLR viewfinder, the LCD becomes a small advantage for most people. For myself both the LCD and the electronic viewfinder together, are not worth the DSLR viewfinder. |
I think that the picture quality is actually LOWER due to the higher pixel count. Sony tried to cram extra pixels into a much smaller CCD, which creates a lot of noise. At least, I think this is what people have been saying. I could be wrong. Saying this though, I was going to buy an 828 over the 300D because I was scared of DSLRs. I'm glad now that I chose the 300D.
Message edited by author 2004-01-17 07:46:10.
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01/17/2004 07:51:22 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by nicklevy:
The focus speed on the 828 is pretty fast (1.4s in complete darkness at telephoto if i remember) and at lower ISO the picture quality of the 828 will be as good or even better than with the 300d due to the higher pixels count and the 4 color CCD, wich is ok for me because I never shoot anything above ISO 100. |
Unfortunately low ISO doesn't get rid of CA issues.
Saying picture quality will be better than a 300D assumes it has one of the bundled lenses, and even then I think I'd be surprised. Put a x thousand dollar Canon 200L on the camera, I think there may be quite a difference!
Further more, the 4 colour CCD (yet another crass Sony marketing ploy) will likely make very little difference. Normal CCDs have four colours: RGBG.
Unfortunately I don't have a direct link to DPReview, but I think the F828 is fairly conclusive about where it fits in comparison to other models. The 300D has a massive support, for very good reason. |
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01/17/2004 09:29:26 AM · #11 |
So the Canon EOS- 300D Rebel is the best buy??
Won't a good digital camera come out before July??
I found in WolfCamera a very good offer Canon EOS Digital Rebel SLR Camera w/Two-Lens Outfit for $1,199.99. It has the normal lens and other of 70-300mm and a gadget bag.
appropriate for a beginner??
Message edited by author 2004-01-17 09:34:16.
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01/17/2004 09:35:56 AM · #12 |
In two to three weeks time there will be a digital imaging show called PMA (Photography Marketing Associaton) in Las Vegas. The next weeks and during the show a lot of new cameras will be announced.
This might also have an impact on the current pricelevel of today's cameras.
Check sites like dpreview.com during this time. Often there will be hands on experience reports with the new models, prices, delivery dates etc.
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01/17/2004 09:43:46 AM · #13 |
The best question is not if the 300D is the best buy.
You need a camera that suits your needs, so first of all:
What do you want to do with it? Allround, sports, family snapshots, lot of lowlight, landscapes, portraiture, art, do you need a big zoom or is a medium zoom enough? Will it be used when hiking, travelling, outdoors, indoors.....etc
Do not forget accesoires within your budget. Do you need powerful flash (external), tripod, monopod, memory, printer, card reader, camera bag, lens filters, lens cleaning fluid and tissues, etc. Most of this can be added later, but do you have a budget for it at that time etc. A dSLR is a complex toy to start with, do you have experience or do you need to buy a book about photography (National Geographic's Field Guide is a good start)?
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01/17/2004 09:47:06 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by nicklevy:
...and at lower ISO the picture quality of the 828 will be as good or even better than with the 300d due to the higher pixels count and the 4 color CCD, wich is ok for me because I never shoot anything above ISO 100. |
The 300D's ISO800 is cleaner than the ISO64 of the Sony....
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01/17/2004 09:49:54 AM · #15 |
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01/17/2004 09:53:07 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
The best question is not if the 300D is the best buy.
You need a camera that suits your needs, so first of all:
What do you want to do with it? Allround, sports, family snapshots, lot of lowlight, landscapes, portraiture, art, do you need a big zoom or is a medium zoom enough? Will it be used when hiking, travelling, outdoors, indoors.....etc
Do not forget accesoires within your budget. Do you need powerful flash (external), tripod, monopod, memory, printer, card reader, camera bag, lens filters, lens cleaning fluid and tissues, etc. Most of this can be added later, but do you have a budget for it at that time etc. A dSLR is a complex toy to start with, do you have experience or do you need to buy a book about photography (National Geographic's Field Guide is a good start)? |
Well I want my camera for portraits, landscapes and just as a hobby, and of course I want to travel with it.
At first I won't use filters or things like that.
About my knowledge of photography. I've read many books and tutorials.
What I need is experience
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01/17/2004 10:00:44 AM · #17 |
Have a look here for comparison to 300D and a full high quality review.
But you have to make you own choice depending on your need and preferences.
Just as example : I love the image quality on the 300D. But I don't like carrying multiple lenses, I like the live preview on the Sony LCD/EVF, I love the swivel body for low angle shots. I would buy an F828, if only these two image quality issues would not exist.
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01/17/2004 10:00:45 AM · #18 |
You are just starting out...in no way shape or form do you need to spend the money on a DSLR.
Start with a 4-5mp camera that has auto but also has the ability to shoot manual. Spend about $500. Maybe even get one used.
Have fun with it, fool around..then think about moving up to a better one. By then there will be ten new ones out, and the prices will be even cheaper. |
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01/17/2004 10:15:48 AM · #19 |
I agree 100% with TerryGee. I'm a beginner in this area and my first camera was in that price range. It has given me the insight I need to take good pictures and to feel the necesity of an upgrade when my needs were too demanding for it. Now I'm learning with a basic DSLR until again I feel the need for the upgrade.
Originally posted by TerryGee:
You are just starting out...in no way shape or form do you need to spend the money on a DSLR.
Start with a 4-5mp camera that has auto but also has the ability to shoot manual. Spend about $500. Maybe even get one used.
Have fun with it, fool around..then think about moving up to a better one. By then there will be ten new ones out, and the prices will be even cheaper. |
Message edited by author 2004-01-25 01:50:41. |
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01/17/2004 12:40:17 PM · #20 |
a good article to read for a comparison of the 300D and the 828 (and also a more indepth explanation of the 828's capabilities) is this: //www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/cognative.shtml
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01/17/2004 01:00:45 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by TerryGee:
You are just starting out...in no way shape or form do you need to spend the money on a DSLR.
Start with a 4-5mp camera that has auto but also has the ability to shoot manual. Spend about $500. Maybe even get one used.
Have fun with it, fool around..then think about moving up to a better one. By then there will be ten new ones out, and the prices will be even cheaper. |
I actually disagree with this (though I 'm partially playing the Devil's advocate). I learned on a digicam (well, 2: coolpix 995 and 5700) and upgraded to dSLR, and now I wish I'd never wasted time with the others. The digicams are SO convenient on auto, and such a PITA on manual, i shot auto 99% of the time. I shot with the digicams for three years and learned less in that time than i have in the last two months with a dSLR.
Learning on those other cams actually slowed my learning curve down.
And as for the comparison between the two? I've never used the sony, but the coolpix 5700 is Nikon's top-of-the-line digicam, and it is light years behind the 300d, which is basically the bottom of the line dSLR for quality, focus speed, flexibility, and overall coolness (how come nobody ever mentions the coolness factor? ;} ). Having said that, I took some great pics with the Nikon, and i actually kept it for certain situations (the swivel viewfinder etc is a nice bonus).
I agree it's a steeper learning curve with the dSLR, but in my eyes it was a huge leap in quality and performance.
Pedro |
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01/17/2004 01:12:31 PM · #22 |
Aside from camera quality, something to consider when deciding to go dslr or not is how much are you going to use it? Are you new to photography or just new to digital photography? Do you know that six months or a year down the line you'll still be into it enough to warrant $1500? That's a pretty decent chunk of change for a hobby that you're unsure of. On the other hand, if you're really sure and have the money, I'd probably go with the dslr.
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01/17/2004 01:14:40 PM · #23 |
| If you can, look around ebay for an f717. I love mine. You can probably pick it up for around 500 used. But make sure everything still works and your buying from a good seller. Also, you mentioned you wanted full manual features, the f717 has that. |
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01/17/2004 01:50:54 PM · #24 |
I have finally decided to buy the Sony dsc-f717, but new no used because I don't trust.
The dsc-f717 is light, powerful (I don't need more than 5MP), his lens are very good (Carl Zeiss), it's nice and it isn't very expensive ($800 at Wolf Camera and Best Buy).I have examined all the photos taken by the dsc-f717 and they are good enough for a beginner like me.
I am absolutely agree with Pedro, it's a waste of time and money to buy a "bad" one, you can begin with auto, then you can put some things in manual and finally completely manual.
Maybe in the future I will buy a DSLR.
What accessories will I need apart from a memory stick, a bag or case and what about the filters???
THANKS
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01/17/2004 01:53:38 PM · #25 |
| Wait, before you buy. Dont pay 800 at wolf or best buy. Circuit city constantly has sales, and I was able to get mine for a little less than 650. |
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