3 Steps for Voting on Artistic Photographs

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 STM Lens

07/10/2012 10:37:19 AM · #51

Originally posted by JiaBob:

The idea of a challenge is that we are all challenged to meet it. If we all just start with a blank slate and enter our most compelling shots (abstract or otherwise), what is the point of the challenge? There is no challenge. We already have free studies and ample abstract challenges for those who would enter them. Must every challenge be all things to all people?

Agree.
I always find it funny when people get laced with DNMC votes or comments then complain about the voter. The onus of the failure lies with the photographer. It's your job to convince me, with your photograph, that it meets the challenge and not the other way around. I may be close minded and shallow, or literal, or delusional, it doesn't matter, but the blame can never lie with the person looking at your photograph. You as a photographer have failed in your delivery or storytelling.

[assuming fair voting across all images]

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

07/10/2012 10:59:38 AM · #52

Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by JiaBob:
The idea of a challenge is that we are all challenged to meet it. If we all just start with a blank slate and enter our most compelling shots (abstract or otherwise), what is the point of the challenge? There is no challenge. We already have free studies and ample abstract challenges for those who would enter them. Must every challenge be all things to all people?

Agree.
I always find it funny when people get laced with DNMC votes or comments then complain about the voter. The onus of the failure lies with the photographer. It's your job to convince me, with your photograph, that it meets the challenge and not the other way around. I may be close minded and shallow, or literal, or delusional, it doesn't matter, but the blame can never lie with the person looking at your photograph. You as a photographer have failed in your delivery or storytelling.

[assuming fair voting across all images]

Really? The photographer is supposed to spoon-feed all of the voters? I absolutely disagree. The artist can only take the viewer so far. The viewer has to do some of the work too. A good image makes the viewer work to understand it and fascinates the mind even if the image is never fully understood.

Ever read Ulysses? A reader has to work at it, otherwise it's just driveling jabber.

WTH is "fair" voting anyway?

Message edited by author 2012-07-10 11:00:10.

07/10/2012 11:02:01 AM · #53

I think these discussions are always interesting and worth having. As Spork says, it is a matter of taste. For me, the act of clearly conveying a message or story or challenge topic is not always that interesting for me as a viewer. I'd much rather be left with questions over an image than have it all neatly laid out for me.

Also, not being that intersted in ribbons or ranking doesn't mean that you are not intersted in the challenge itself.Just that the challenge is for more for oneself not against others (i do realise that is mostly the same for everyone though). Saying that though, it's not that i amnot pleased when i get i higher score or some bling. I am, it's just that i am not that bothered when i get a 4 or a brown either. If i've made a photograph i'm pleased with i want others to see it after all.

E.T.A - Whilst i was typing that, Spork said exactly what i wanted to say, probably better.

Message edited by author 2012-07-10 11:03:49.

Sony Sonnar FE 2.8 35mm ZA

07/10/2012 11:10:37 AM · #54

Originally posted by Spork99:

The photographer doesn't have to spoon feed the viewer, but ultimately, the onus lies with the photographer. If the challenge is Keys, and someone shoots a pile of bricks with a title leading the viewer to hopefully see that bricks can open windows, they can't really complain when it fails miserably. This might be a terrible example, but I didn't want to single out another photographer using a better example.

I don't agree that a good image makes the viewer work to understand. You don't know who's your audience. Maybe they don't want to work, or think, or even understand. Maybe all they want is straight up eye candy. In this case, it's not the viewers fault, but the photographers lack of understanding of his audience.

I have read Ulysses; the book's junk.

I meant "fair" as being synonymous with consistent.

jagar

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

07/10/2012 11:30:22 AM · #55

Ever noticed how dribbling jabber does so well in this world ? Our degenerative society needs to grasp at easily accessible, immediately emotional, shallow dribble, our technological advances have made this cover up much easier to obtain. Not being negative :-) but somedays everywhere I look I think that's all there is, a huge wasteland of escapism, all of which only has one aim, to cover up that emptiness and fear we feel inside. Looking at and appreciating art in the way that Don explains in his tutorial is a sure way of helping us go beyond this mass cover up. Life is more than a pretty sharp picture and an immidiate kick. I would honestly prefere to never win or receive anymore recognition for one of my photos and to see truly artistic photography with true emotion cover the front page. Let's vote with our hearts not our heads and lets start being true to our fundamental nature instead of just feeding our already overblown egos with junk food, it's too easy that way.

07/10/2012 11:49:33 AM · #56

Originally posted by Venser:

I have read Ulysses; the book's junk.

Hum. I find it very hard to believe that someone would have read Ulysses and come to the conclusion that it was junk. Not that i don't think many people may think it's awful. That's fair enough. Just that i can't imagine anyone reading the first chapter and thinking, 'Hey. This is junk. I think i'll read the other 16 or so chapters!'

To give you the benefit of the doubt i guess you might have read it for University or something. :)

Message edited by author 2012-07-10 11:51:44.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

07/10/2012 11:51:53 AM · #57

Originally posted by mike_311:

You either appreciate it or you dont, giving someone guidelines on how to get into the mindset to vote on and "artsy" image misses the point. Either the artist did their job and made you like or feel something in their image or they failed. Me clearing my mind before looking at an image wont change that fact.

According to this logic, all Art History and Art education everywhere is irrelevant.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

07/10/2012 11:54:16 AM · #58

Originally posted by mike_311:

We are assuming the artist is making the art actually set out to create a particular image as opposed to digging through a pile of photos taken and saying oooh, i bet i can get a posthumous with this one. lets apply some blur and color effect.

You are exactly wrong about my assumption. The tutorial is actually a way of weeding out precisely these photos.

07/10/2012 11:59:11 AM · #59

Originally posted by rooum:

Originally posted by Venser:

I have read Ulysses; the book's junk.

Hum. I find it very hard to believe that someone would have read Ulysses and come to the conclusion that it was junk. Not that i don't think many people may think it's awful. That's fair enough. Just that i can't imagine anyone reading the first chapter and think, 'Hey. This is junk. I think i'll read the other 16 or so chapters!'

To give you the benefit of the doubt i guess you might have read it for University or something. :)

No, I did physics in university.
At one point I was trying to read every book on this list. I've read all the books in the top 49, and quite a few below it, then I kind of gave up trying to complete the list and started to read books I like.

For about eight years I was averaging a novel per week. Since my daughter was born seven months ago, I've touched one book. Tried to read A Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet a couple weeks back, but just couldn't get into it.

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 STM Lens

07/10/2012 12:10:26 PM · #60

That makes sense then. I thought perhaps you might be one of those masochistic types, like a friend of mine, who insist on finishing each book they start even if they hate the first chapter.

Originally posted by Venser:

Tried to read A Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet a couple weeks back, but just couldn't get into it.

Actually, ditto on that one.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

07/10/2012 12:17:08 PM · #61

Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by Spork99:
Really? The photographer is supposed to spoon-feed all of the voters? I absolutely disagree. The artist can only take the viewer so far. The viewer has to do some of the work too. A good image makes the viewer work to understand it and fascinates the mind even if the image is never fully understood.

Ever read Ulysses? A reader has to work at it, otherwise it's just driveling jabber.

WTH is "fair" voting anyway?

The photographer doesn't have to spoon feed the viewer, but ultimately, the onus lies with the photographer. If the challenge is Keys, and someone shoots a pile of bricks with a title leading the viewer to hopefully see that bricks can open windows, they can't really complain when it fails miserably. This might be a terrible example, but I didn't want to single out another photographer using a better example.

I don't agree that a good image makes the viewer work to understand. You don't know who's your audience. Maybe they don't want to work, or think, or even understand. Maybe all they want is straight up eye candy. In this case, it's not the viewers fault, but the photographers lack of understanding of his audience.

I have read Ulysses; the book's junk.

I meant "fair" as being synonymous with consistent.

That the photographer has to spoon feed the lazy viewer is exactly what you're saying. Maybe a certain portion of the viewers, yourself for example, are lazy and don't want to think about what they're looking at, but just see the pretty picture. Eye candy will come and go, but so much of it is just a technical exercise without any real meaning or even an attempt at one. Clearly not everyone is so lazy and they are willing to use their minds to look beyond the literal.

There's a reason Ulysses is highly regarded, but you can't be a lazy reader or you'll come away as you did, thinking it's junk.

Consistent? With what standard? A voter could give all 1's or all 5's or all 10's; that's consistent. Or vote each subsequent image one higher than the last, starting over with a one after each ten. They could vote images that are black and white all 10's and color images 2's.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/10/2012 12:20:41 PM · #62

I'm lazy, i admit it.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

07/10/2012 12:30:58 PM · #63

OK.
I will use this as a guideline for submitting photos.
Wait â�¦ what? ;)

tnun

Ricoh GR III

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

07/10/2012 12:39:46 PM · #64

Originally posted by mike_311:

What an interesting idea. If only I had the skills to apply "blur and color effect."

07/10/2012 01:07:08 PM · #65

Originally posted by tnun:

Originally posted by mike_311:
We are assuming the artist is making the art actually set out to create a particular image as opposed to digging through a pile of photos taken and saying oooh, i bet i can get a posthumous with this one. lets apply some blur and color effect.

unfortunately i think that the case for most of the "artsy" submissions.

What an interesting idea. If only I had the skills to apply "blur and color effect."

you dont need skill to to it, you need skill to do it effectively. I dont feel like trying to figure out who does and who doesn't.

Tiny

Apple iPad mini 4

07/10/2012 01:12:20 PM · #66

Wow ! some of you guys read books as well .

Message edited by author 2012-07-10 13:12:53.

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

07/10/2012 01:14:48 PM · #67

Originally posted by Spork99:

There's a reason Ulysses is highly regarded, but you can't be a lazy reader or you'll come away as you did, thinking it's junk.

There are other reasons other than lazy to think that book is junk. But you lazily attributed that reason with why I didn't like it.

Originally posted by Spork99:

That the photographer has to spoon feed the lazy viewer is exactly what you're saying. Maybe a certain portion of the viewers, yourself for example, are lazy and don't want to think about what they're looking at, but just see the pretty picture. Eye candy will come and go, but so much of it is just a technical exercise without any real meaning or even an attempt at one. Clearly not everyone is so lazy and they are willing to use their minds to look beyond the literal.

You have no clue whether I'm lazy or not. I said you have to cater to the audience, and they could be lazy amongst many other things. Maybe you should read what I wrote instead of lazily glancing over the words before responding.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

07/10/2012 01:21:10 PM · #68

Originally posted by Tiny:

Wow ! some of you guys read books as well .

Wish I had the skill to read. Effectively.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

07/10/2012 01:25:08 PM · #69

Originally posted by tnun:

Originally posted by Tiny:
Wow ! some of you guys read books as well .

Wish I had the skill to read. Effectively.

so do I.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

07/10/2012 01:29:23 PM · #70

Originally posted by Venser:

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

07/10/2012 01:34:53 PM · #71

Originally posted by Venser:

and the few that "get it" will chastise the rest of us that dont.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

07/10/2012 01:39:07 PM · #72

I like the literary comparison. Let me add a musical one

We can all understand Superman comics. Most of us can read a George Orwell essay. Few of us can fully grasp Joyce's later stuff.

We can all understand Britney Spears. Most of us can listen to the Beatles. Only a few really can hear what Coltrane was getting at.

Sometimes its junk because it is too stupid to be looked at. Sometimes its junk because we are too stupid to see it for what it is. Like recognizes like, but if it is far enough away from our perception we have to take the word of others to differentiate the foolish from the genius.

â��A man of genius makes no mistakes. His errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.â�� J Joyce, Ulysses. If you say so Jimmy, If you say so.

Message edited by author 2012-07-10 13:55:04.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/10/2012 01:39:48 PM · #73

I can cut it down to one step:

1) Press "1".

LOL. I'm sooo kidding. :D

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

07/10/2012 01:50:44 PM · #74

Originally posted by Tiny:

Wow ! some of you guys read books as well .

(Nods head vigorously)

More than you might think :-) Some of us even TEACH 'em...