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03/10/2008 09:17:24 PM · #26 |
| Joe, what makes you think people will comment honestly? It's too easy to simply write something generic like, "great shot" then proceed to click 1, 2 or 3 and you'll still never know who did it or why. |
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03/10/2008 09:24:50 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Originally posted by keegbow:
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Let me ask you this... If you HAD to comment on pictures that where 3 or below would YOU leave the site? |
Yes I would. I don't believe anyone needs to justify there vote to anyone.
The biggest issue that would make me leave the site would be those vocal minority members who forever complain how things aren't fair and they could do things better blah blah blah....you know who I mean. |
In that case I would say don't let the door hit you on the way out. For you to leave because you don't want to comment is ludicrous.
That also tells me that you like to give out 3's. I knew it wouldn't be hard to find em!!! |
This is becoming quite childish now. Let me reiterate I don't believe anyone needs to justify their vote to anyone and if that was how DPC was run then I don't think I would stay.
As for the door hitting me on the way out I can safely say that from past experience here those vocal minority complainers who continually whine and gripe end up giving up in frustration and leave! Or they push too hard and are shown the door.
So I'm confident that I will be here to see the door close on you one day.
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03/10/2008 09:24:52 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
In that case I would say don't let the door hit you on the way out. For you to leave because you don't want to comment is ludicrous.
That also tells me that you like to give out 3's. I knew it wouldn't be hard to find em!!! |
Don't be so sure. (Tim, I apologize in advance for not asking permission to post these stats)
Dirt, in the 14 months or so that you have been here, in 11,473 votes you have given 2,052 votes of 3 or less. You have made 2,647 comments. So, I assume that you are leading by example and the vast majority of your comments are for those that are 3 and less.
Keegbow, on the other hand, has been here closer to 42 months, and and out of 25,126 votes has given 1,516 votes of 3 or less. He has given fewer comments, but then he is not the one railing to require comments on low votes, is he?
I have been here almost 6 years. I have given 1,757 votes of three or less, out of 40,132, and I have left over 7800 comments.
Unless my math is way off (and trust me, it could be), both Tim and I are around 6% votes of 3 or less. Yours, on the other hand, is closer to 17%.
Perhaps you perceive a problem because you are part of the problem. The solution can start with YOU. Lead by example. Show us how it can be done.
My point with this? Do NOT make accusations that you have absolutely no proof of whatsoever, and of what you, yourself, would apparently be guilty.
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03/10/2008 09:43:27 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Let me ask you this... If you HAD to comment on pictures that where 3 or below would YOU leave the site? |
I probably wouldn't leave the site, but I definitely WOULD vote and comment even less than I do now. We're doing you a favour in even voting. What right have you to DEMAND a comment as well, just because you've entered a low-scoring shot?
If I HAVE to comment when I give a 3, then you'd have to implement a matching rule demanding comments on votes of 8 and higher as well. |
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03/10/2008 09:51:05 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
In that case I would say don't let the door hit you on the way out. For you to leave because you don't want to comment is ludicrous.
That also tells me that you like to give out 3's. I knew it wouldn't be hard to find em!!! |
Don't be so sure. (Tim, I apologize in advance for not asking permission to post these stats)
Dirt, in the 14 months or so that you have been here, in 11,473 votes you have given 2,052 votes of 3 or less. You have made 2,647 comments. So, I assume that you are leading by example and the vast majority of your comments are for those that are 3 and less.
Keegbow, on the other hand, has been here closer to 42 months, and and out of 25,126 votes has given 1,516 votes of 3 or less. He has given fewer comments, but then he is not the one railing to require comments on low votes, is he?
I have been here almost 6 years. I have given 1,757 votes of three or less, out of 40,132, and I have left over 7800 comments.
Unless my math is way off (and trust me, it could be), both Tim and I are around 6% votes of 3 or less. Yours, on the other hand, is closer to 17%.
Perhaps you perceive a problem because you are part of the problem. The solution can start with YOU. Lead by example. Show us how it can be done.
My point with this? Do NOT make accusations that you have absolutely no proof of whatsoever, and of what you, yourself, would apparently be guilty. |
Please check when the last time I gave a 3 was. Before you start posting stats of what I have voted maybe you should check when I voted.
I don't vote that much anymore but I assure you that over the past year I have not handed out more than 5 votes lower than a 3.
BUT if people could see the same stats that you do maybe I would be leading my example and maybe people would vote higher. Oh and BTW people in the past have asked for stats like that to be posted on profiles. Can we get that??? or will that be shot down also???
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03/10/2008 09:53:00 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Let me ask you this... If you HAD to comment on pictures that where 3 or below would YOU leave the site? |
I probably wouldn't leave the site, but I definitely WOULD vote and comment even less than I do now. We're doing you a favour in even voting. What right have you to DEMAND a comment as well, just because you've entered a low-scoring shot?
If I HAVE to comment when I give a 3, then you'd have to implement a matching rule demanding comments on votes of 8 and higher as well. |
you don't have to vote on every entry. If you think the picture should get a 3 and you don't feel like voting just skip the image. There I just MADE you vote on a 3 or lower. See wasn't that easy? Besides how many 3's have you given out lately?
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03/10/2008 09:55:28 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Originally posted by citymars:
DD/Joseph, it's not like the current SC is mad with entrenched power -- they are volunteers who devote time and energy to maintaining the site and keep us all happy (an impossible task, but you know what I mean).
Anyway, I also want to add my thanks to the SC for the recent action taken on the IRC (incredibly rude commenter). I also complained about him, though not on behalf of my own photos. |
Actually they do have entrenched power. That's how they run the site. Not speaking of anything off the site but lets look at what they have power over.
Troll Voting
Rude commenter’s
Suspensions
Violations
Evictions
Thread locking and unlocking
Thread scrolling (removing or editing post)
Validation
Customer comments and questions
Tutorials
Equipment updates
DPL stats (though I know langdon did a lot, SC did help too)
Challenge suggestions
Anything I am missing or wrong on SC??? |
We don't have anything to do with tutorials, and we only have access to the stats that Langdon gives us. Challenge suggestions, which we take from the challenge suggestion forums, are put into a queue that Langdon chooses from. So, yes, no, and sorta. |
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03/10/2008 09:57:07 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by rinac:
Joe, what makes you think people will comment honestly? It's too easy to simply write something generic like, "great shot" then proceed to click 1, 2 or 3 and you'll still never know who did it or why. |
If they write "great shot" and give you a 3 then those people will 1 be lying and 2 might get caught for cheating. If I voted on 149 entries or even a more realistic 15-30 entries and they all said "great shot" and had people were giving out 3's and below then well that's wrong... RIGHT?
If you want to give a 3 just comment on it. No one said it had to be helpful or long. It's a comment not a constructive critique as to what should or shouldn’t be in the image. All though it would be nice huh?
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03/10/2008 09:58:24 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Originally posted by citymars:
DD/Joseph, it's not like the current SC is mad with entrenched power -- they are volunteers who devote time and energy to maintaining the site and keep us all happy (an impossible task, but you know what I mean).
Anyway, I also want to add my thanks to the SC for the recent action taken on the IRC (incredibly rude commenter). I also complained about him, though not on behalf of my own photos. |
Actually they do have entrenched power. That's how they run the site. Not speaking of anything off the site but lets look at what they have power over.
Troll Voting
Rude commenter’s
Suspensions
Violations
Evictions
Thread locking and unlocking
Thread scrolling (removing or editing post)
Validation
Customer comments and questions
Tutorials
Equipment updates
DPL stats (though I know langdon did a lot, SC did help too)
Challenge suggestions
Anything I am missing or wrong on SC??? |
We don't have anything to do with tutorials, and we only have access to the stats that Langdon gives us. Challenge suggestions, which we take from the challenge suggestion forums, are put into a queue that Langdon chooses from. So, yes, no, and sorta. |
Well there you go. And on top of your NORMAL work day and spending time with your friends and family, watching TV or reading books. Don't you think that you are being over worked?
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03/10/2008 10:00:37 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Please check when the last time I gave a 3 was. Before you start posting stats of what I have voted maybe you should check when I voted. |
Can't. I can see what the last challenge you voted in was, but it would take some serious digging to find out what votes went where. I'm not even sure that it is possible.
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
I don't vote that much anymore but I assure you that over the past year I have not handed out more than 5 votes lower than a 3. |
So, all of yours came within the first couple months of being here. Cool.
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
BUT if people could see the same stats that you do maybe I would be leading my example and maybe people would vote higher. Oh and BTW people in the past have asked for stats like that to be posted on profiles. Can we get that??? or will that be shot down also??? |
You can. The only stat that I posted that you do not have readily available is how many votes under three you had. But, you can find that with a bit of looking. The others are all very public, already. |
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03/10/2008 10:01:42 PM · #36 |
I'm sure it has been said before, but I'll add my voice to those who think the idea of requiring comments on low votes is a horribly bad idea. I would be very tempted as a voter to simply give a shot a 4 just to avoid having to write a snotty note to tell someone that their shot is out of focus, doesn't meet the challenge, or the whatever message they've undoubtedly been getting over and over again without needing me to repeat it to them.
It certainly seems like any shot that scores in the <4 range already has plenty of comments to tell the submitter what's wrong with it. Why require people to add insult to injury?
The end result of your suggestion is that scores get artificially boosted upwards because people are going to avoid casting the lower votes. I don't see how that contributes to the quality of the site.
Ain't broken. Doesn't need to be fixed.
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
If they write "great shot" and give you a 3 then those people will 1 be lying and 2 might get caught for cheating. If I voted on 149 entries or even a more realistic 15-30 entries and they all said "great shot" and had people were giving out 3's and below then well that's wrong... RIGHT?
If you want to give a 3 just comment on it. No one said it had to be helpful or long. It's a comment not a constructive critique as to what should or shouldn’t be in the image. All though it would be nice huh? |
Message edited by author 2008-03-10 22:08:26. |
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03/10/2008 10:09:31 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Please check when the last time I gave a 3 was. Before you start posting stats of what I have voted maybe you should check when I voted. |
Can't. I can see what the last challenge you voted in was, but it would take some serious digging to find out what votes went where. I'm not even sure that it is possible.
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
I don't vote that much anymore but I assure you that over the past year I have not handed out more than 5 votes lower than a 3. |
So, all of yours came within the first couple months of being here. Cool.
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
BUT if people could see the same stats that you do maybe I would be leading my example and maybe people would vote higher. Oh and BTW people in the past have asked for stats like that to be posted on profiles. Can we get that??? or will that be shot down also??? |
You can. The only stat that I posted that you do not have readily available is how many votes under three you had. But, you can find that with a bit of looking. The others are all very public, already. |
Yes all my lower votes came from when I first got here. It's been a long time since I have given anything out lower than a 5. If I do give out a low score I do explain why.
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03/10/2008 10:10:46 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Actually they do have entrenched power. That's how they run the site. Not speaking of anything off the site but lets look at what they have power over: <-long list deleted-> |
Sorry, DD, but you missed my point, I think. My fault for not being clearer. I'm not saying they don't run things, I'm saying they don't have self-serving power in the same way that entrenched politicians have power. Are they getting a reward? Are they getting kickbacks from certain users for arranging things to please them? I think they're doing a fine job. Repeating what Alan said: The site isn't broken.
Message edited by author 2008-03-10 22:11:09. |
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03/10/2008 10:13:26 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Let me ask you this... If you HAD to comment on pictures that where 3 or below would YOU leave the site? |
I probably wouldn't leave the site, but I definitely WOULD vote and comment even less than I do now. We're doing you a favour in even voting. What right have you to DEMAND a comment as well, just because you've entered a low-scoring shot?
If I HAVE to comment when I give a 3, then you'd have to implement a matching rule demanding comments on votes of 8 and higher as well. |
you don't have to vote on every entry. If you think the picture should get a 3 and you don't feel like voting just skip the image. There I just MADE you vote on a 3 or lower. See wasn't that easy? Besides how many 3's have you given out lately? |
And how is THAT fair?? If I feel a shot deserves a 3 why should I skip it? When I vote I try to vote 100% (but too often fail), because I don't feel cherry-picking is fair to anyone who entered. Even when I don't make 100% I still vote on every photo from the beginning, as far as I make it.
If I'm forced to either comment on or skip a 3, I will...not...vote...on...ANY of them.
Oh, and this thread clarifies part of the reason why I refuse to be FORCED to comment.
I have no idea how many 3's, or any other score, I've given out, or how many of them I've commented on. So what? |
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03/10/2008 10:16:37 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Yes all my lower votes came from when I first got here. It's been a long time since I have given anything out lower than a 5. |
Perhaps most of the current low votes are from newbies, too? If you aren't scoring the worst shots below 5, I don't see that as much of an improvement as far as fairness goes. The voting scale is from bad to good, and I have yet to see a challenge with ONLY good or bad entries.
Message edited by author 2008-03-10 22:20:10. |
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03/10/2008 10:17:30 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
If you want to give a 3 just comment on it. No one said it had to be helpful or long. |
Then WTF is the point??!! A useless comment just wastes your time writing it and my time reading it.
I comment when I feel I have something to contribute. If I don't, what's the point in typing anything??
I HATE "nice shot".... oh and, as in Pet Portraits, "cute". Useless!! |
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03/10/2008 10:19:28 PM · #42 |
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03/10/2008 10:21:23 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Yes all my lower votes came from when I first got here. It's been a long time since I have given anything out lower than a 5. |
Perhaps most of the current low votes are from newbies, too? |
You know I think they are... Maybe we should so something about that also. Other sites don't let you vote until you have entered a number of challenges?
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03/10/2008 10:23:02 PM · #44 |
If you think anything is going to prevent votes of 1 or low scores without comments, you must be new around here.
Message edited by author 2008-03-10 22:23:15. |
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03/10/2008 10:28:42 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
If you want to give a 3 just comment on it. No one said it had to be helpful or long. |
Then WTF is the point??!! A useless comment just wastes your time writing it and my time reading it.
I comment when I feel I have something to contribute. If I don't, what's the point in typing anything??
I HATE "nice shot".... oh and, as in Pet Portraits, "cute". Useless!! |
If you don't want to comment then give it a 4. Again see my point here... If you start voting in a challenge that you haven't voted in yet and you give a score lower than 4 what happens??? You get a pop up saying please comment on all pictures that you vote low. Or they used too.
Let’s do this. What was the last challenge you voted on??? Tell me how many 3's or below you gave and lets wait until the challenge is over and see why you gave those 3's. I will comment on EVERY single 3 and below you gave in that challenge and let the person know why they got the vote they got.
This is a photography site that is supposed to help you get better and you right "great shot" doesn't help you get better but if at least 1 person leaves an actual construction comment that helps the person then my suggestion works.
Not that many people deserve 3's or below is all I'm saying. If 1 means BAD what does 2 and 3 mean to you????
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03/10/2008 10:29:20 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
If you think anything is going to prevent votes of 1 or low scores without comments, you must be new around here. |
I am I just joined last night! Didn't you see that?
I understand why you don't care about getting 1's but people that aren't professionals or don't have a $1,000 dollar camera with $4,000 in lenses would like a shot at ribbons too.
Message edited by author 2008-03-10 22:32:21.
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03/10/2008 10:30:14 PM · #47 |
| ... as for why some photos get ones, despite being technically competent and meeting the challenge theme... don't even get started on addressing how to fix that. Many voters have recently made it clear that they'll vote how they damn well please. :-) |
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03/10/2008 10:33:47 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by citymars:
... as for why some photos get ones, despite being technically competent and meeting the challenge theme... don't even get started on addressing how to fix that. Many voters have recently made it clear that they'll vote how they damn well please. :-) |
You're absolutely right! Well until we can make them comment on 3's and below. or not troll vote at all.
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03/10/2008 10:34:07 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Let me ask you this Alan... Did you think that your image  in a "Tacky Holiday Decorations" challenge deserved a 1-one, 3-two's, and 1-Three???
Why do you think you got those votes??? Was it because your entry was so bad that it actually deserved a 1???
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Let me ask you this DD... Did you think that your image  in a “Free Study” challenge deserved 3–tens and 1- nine???
Why do you think you got those votes??? Was it because your entry was so good that it actually deserved a 10???
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03/10/2008 10:37:01 PM · #50 |
| Every photo gets exactly the score it deserves. |
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