MY RANT - DPChallenge Forums

03/10/2008 10:39:07 PM · #51

Originally posted by DJWoodward:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Let me ask you this Alan... Did you think that your image in a "Tacky Holiday Decorations" challenge deserved a 1-one, 3-two's, and 1-Three???

Why do you think you got those votes??? Was it because your entry was so bad that it actually deserved a 1???

Let me ask you this DD... Did you think that your image in a â��Free Studyâ�� challenge deserved 3â��tens and 1- nine???

Why do you think you got those votes??? Was it because your entry was so good that it actually deserved a 10???

Actually No I didn't think it should have gotten 3 10's or a 9. This picture is actually about a 4-5 in my book. I knew it wouldn't do well at all but while youâ��re over there digging around in my profile look at my #1 goal for 2008. That FS entry was just that... AN ENTRY (for the numbers) Oh and BTW that was my first time shooting at in indoor hockey game. I was just showing off the fight that was going on. (should have been there to see it)

Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L USM

03/10/2008 10:40:39 PM · #52

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Every photo gets exactly the score it deserves.

Thanks for you input.

trevytrev

Canon EOS-5D

03/10/2008 10:43:21 PM · #53

"Some people think cucumbers taste better pickled" I'm one of them:)

03/10/2008 10:43:53 PM · #54

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

If you don't want to comment then give it a 4. Again see my point here...

What about truly awful, Brown Ribbon shots that get 10s... what were those voters thinking? We should mandate comments on those. And those terribly underrated shots that only score a mid-5 despite a brilliant idea or innovative technique. Surely they should have scored higher, but we won't know unless we require some comments. How about those shots that are only pretty for the sake of being pretty... did those get high votes on visual appeal alone? Dangit, no comments- better require notes on those, too. Hey... I have a whole bunch of views, but very few votes. There oughtta be a rule that if you look, you must comment. Whoa... what about people using keyboard voting who hit 1-0 or write "10" in their comments, thereby inadvertently assigning a 1? Time to start suspending people who don't go back and check their votes in cases they accidentally gave a score that required a mandatory comment... :-/

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 STM Lens

03/10/2008 10:47:43 PM · #55

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

I understand why you don't care about getting 1's but people that aren't professionals or don't have a $1,000 dollar camera with $4,000 in lenses would like a shot at ribbons too.

My first 6 ribbons came from a Canon Digital Rebel 300D. My most expensive lens at the time was $250, and I had no studio lights or filters. I was nowhere near a professional. Got any more excuses?

Message edited by author 2008-03-10 22:50:00.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

03/10/2008 10:47:53 PM · #56

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Every photo gets exactly the score it deserves.

Thanks for you input.

Well, who are you to say otherwise?

The arbiter of photographic merit?

Message edited by author 2008-03-10 22:48:56.

BeeCee

Nikon D40

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

03/10/2008 10:52:32 PM · #57

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

If you don't want to comment then give it a 4.

WHY, if it deserves a 3 or 2 or 1?

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Letâ��s do this. What was the last challenge you voted on??? Tell me how many 3's or below you gave and lets wait until the challenge is over and see why you gave those 3's. I will comment on EVERY single 3 and below you gave in that challenge and let the person know why they got the vote they got.

No thanks, if I want to give them a comment I will, and do.

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

This is a photography site that is supposed to help you get better and you right "great shot" doesn't help you get better but if at least 1 person leaves an actual construction comment that helps the person then my suggestion works.

Forcing me to comment will not make me more eager to be helpful. It WILL, however, make me resentful.

What does encourage me is having my comments marked as helpful, maybe a pm thanking me, or especially seeing a reshoot or re-edit using my hints, or seeing them used in the next try. In other words, knowing my comment is welcome and helpful. NOT being told I MUST make them, wanted or not.

*sigh*... I don't know why I'm even bothering when I'm pretty sure you're not even listening. Yes. I do see you're point. I just don't happen to agree with your solution.

03/10/2008 10:53:18 PM · #58

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
If you don't want to comment then give it a 4. Again see my point here...

What about truly awful, Brown Ribbon shots that get 10s... what were those voters thinking? We should mandate comments on those. And those terribly underrated shots that only score a mid-5 despite a brilliant idea or innovative technique. Surely they should have scored higher, but we won't know unless we require some comments. How about those shots that are only pretty for the sake of being pretty... did those get high votes on visual appeal alone? Dangit, no comments- better require notes on those, too. Hey... I have a whole bunch of views, but very few votes. There oughtta be a rule that if you look, you must comment. Whoa... what about people using keyboard voting who hit 1-0 or write "10" in their comments, thereby inadvertently assigning a 1? Time to start suspending people who don't go back and check their votes in cases they accidentally gave a score that required a mandatory comment... :-/

Nothing in what you said has anything to do with my original Idea. I never said that we should comment on every picture only the 3's and below. This would make comments go up or scores go up. I never said anything about views or keyboard voting. If you wanted to stick your foot in make sure there is ground there for you to stand on. Please refer to my original idea so you understand.

DJWoodward

03/10/2008 10:53:59 PM · #59

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

DD, I'm not trying to stir the pot here [at least not too much :-)]. I'm just curious if you feel that comments should have been left on these high scores too? By the way, I can't get too excited about the "1 score on a highly rated image" phenomenon. I've been there and I can live with the fact that one person really didnâ��t like my photo.

Nice job for you first hockey photo attempt too.

03/10/2008 10:57:47 PM · #60

Originally posted by DJWoodward:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Actually No I didn't think it should have gotten 3 10's or a 9. This picture is actually about a 4-5 in my book. I knew it wouldn't do well at all but while youâ��re over there digging around in my profile look at my #1 goal for 2008. That FS entry was just that... AN ENTRY (for the numbers) Oh and BTW that was my first time shooting at in indoor hockey game. I was just showing off the fight that was going on. (should have been there to see it)

DD, I'm not trying to stir the pot here [at least not too much :-)]. I'm just curious if you feel that comments should have been left on these high scores too? By the way, I can't get too excited about the "1 score on a highly rated image" phenomenon. I've been there and I can live with the fact that one person really didnâ��t like my photo.

Nice job for you first hockey photo attempt too.

See in no way would that deserve the 1 you got. Personally I gave it an 8. I thought it was a fantastic shot. Not my thing but I still gave you a high score.

Wouldn't you like to know WHY that 1 person gave you that 1? Wouldnâ��t you like to know what was going thru their head at the time they gave it to you? And BTW I forget about all the 1's I got on my photos too. I mean if the picture isn't being voted on every day then it's not on my mind. "out of sight, out of mind". But I know the same second you looked at where you're picture finished in the challenge you saw the 1 and was instantly curious as to why you got it.

In no way are you stirring the pot. There isn't a pot to stir.

Message edited by author 2008-03-10 23:00:28.

rinac

Pentax K20D

Pentax SMC-F 50mm f/1.7

03/10/2008 10:58:39 PM · #61

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Originally posted by rinac:
Joe, what makes you think people will comment honestly? It's too easy to simply write something generic like, "great shot" then proceed to click 1, 2 or 3 and you'll still never know who did it or why.

If they write "great shot" and give you a 3 then those people will 1 be lying and 2 might get caught for cheating. If I voted on 149 entries or even a more realistic 15-30 entries and they all said "great shot" and had people were giving out 3's and below then well that's wrong... RIGHT?

If you want to give a 3 just comment on it. No one said it had to be helpful or long. It's a comment not a constructive critique as to what should or shouldnâ��t be in the image. All though it would be nice huh?

1. They may lie - Yes.
2. Caught for cheating - No. It's not cheating to give a vote of 3 or less and leave a bullshit comment. Not hard really: "I like puppies", "awesome!", "I like the colour", "LOL, too cute".... etc

Again, you still won't know who slammed you with that vote or why. And as others have intimated over and over again, being forced to comment is a complete turn off.

03/10/2008 11:00:55 PM · #62

Hey DD why do you feel the need to impose something you want to do on the rest of the site?

If you really wanted to give a comment on all the pictures you score 3 or below you would go back and comment on the 2047 images you voted a 3 or below in the first month that you were here.

That would set a good example and get you out of the forums for awhile.

03/10/2008 11:09:44 PM · #63

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

If you don't want to comment then give it a 4.

WHY, if it deserves a 3 or 2 or 1?

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Letâ��s do this. What was the last challenge you voted on??? Tell me how many 3's or below you gave and lets wait until the challenge is over and see why you gave those 3's. I will comment on EVERY single 3 and below you gave in that challenge and let the person know why they got the vote they got.

No thanks, if I want to give them a comment I will, and do.

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

This is a photography site that is supposed to help you get better and you right "great shot" doesn't help you get better but if at least 1 person leaves an actual construction comment that helps the person then my suggestion works.

Forcing me to comment will not make me more eager to be helpful. It WILL, however, make me resentful.

What does encourage me is having my comments marked as helpful, maybe a pm thanking me, or especially seeing a reshoot or re-edit using my hints, or seeing them used in the next try. In other words, knowing my comment is welcome and helpful. NOT being told I MUST make them, wanted or not.

*sigh*... I don't know why I'm even bothering when I'm pretty sure you're not even listening. Yes. I do see you're point. I just don't happen to agree with your solution.

Sheila I am listening to you sweetie. remember the good old days when were kicking back and drinking beer in the forums... That's still the same old me, I just have a few new ideas.

I really think that if people HAD to comment on low scores they really would. It's hard to explain why I know this and it might not happen at first but I promise it would help in the long run.

I know a lot of you are scared of change. And don't like to be FORCED to do anything. But in reality you are forced to do something every day. As for this site. you are FORCED to follow the rules. If you, don't you will be punished. What my suggestion is would not affect any of the true voters or commenterâ��s. It would however affect people just scrolling through and clicking 1's 2's and 3's.

My suggestion is not a bad on people. It's a helpful one. We have trial rules why not give this a shot??? Lets try the site like this for a month. If it's absolutely horrible trash the idea.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

03/10/2008 11:11:18 PM · #64

Originally posted by keegbow:

If I could revote them I would. If I could tell which ones I voted low I would go back right now and comment on them. You find out for me and let me know okay.

BeeCee

Nikon D40

03/10/2008 11:15:59 PM · #65

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

We're not misunderstanding you. (sorry, I'm going to speak loudly and slowly so that maybe you will understand US)

WHY should ONLY 1-3 votes deserve comments? ALL of us have something we can learn, so why should only the poor shots rate comments? When I get a 9 or 10 on a shot that I figure is a 5.5, I want to know why just as much as I want to know why the 1 or 2. Don't I have just as much right to know?

Wait... why don't we require a critique with EVERY vote? THAT would solve ALL the problems, right?

eta; you can easily see how you voted... just flip thru the early challenges and each shot shows your vote in bright red.

ps. Why do you think they quit using that comment pop-up? Because it DIDN'T work.
I don't need to try everything.... sometimes common sense and logic tells me it won't work.

Message edited by author 2008-03-10 23:20:02.

03/10/2008 11:20:36 PM · #66

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Nothing in what you said has anything to do with my original Idea.... If you wanted to stick your foot in make sure there is ground there for you to stand on. Please refer to my original idea so you understand.

Ahem... your ORIGINAL idea:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

In this thread ANYONE can COMPALIN about ANYTHING they want.

Would you like some ketchup with that sneaker?

If by "original idea" (I had to wade through a lot of SC sucks posts to find it) you meant skip all shots you felt deserved less than a 4 unless you're willing to leave a comment, that would seriously skew the voting for those lower-end entries. Any attempt to intentionally influence the voting is against the Terms of Service and would get you suspended. If you actually managed to get a group of people to avoid voting on poor entries, you would be gone. Thus, my post was on requiring comments (as the rest would be against the rules).

Speaking of rules...

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

...you can say anything you want so it doesn't get removed by SC.

You don't make the rules here. Langdon does.

Message edited by author 2008-03-10 23:22:20.

03/10/2008 11:24:03 PM · #67

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Originally posted by keegbow:
Hey DD why do you feel the need to impose something you want to do on the rest of the site?

If you really wanted to give a comment on all the pictures you score 3 or below you would go back and comment on the 2047 images you voted a 3 or below in the first month that you were here.

That would set a good example and get you out of the forums for awhile.

If I could revote them I would. If I could tell which ones I voted low I would go back right now and comment on them. You find out for me and let me know okay.

Glad to help you:

Go to "challenges" at the top of page
click on, select "challenge history" click on,
Now select page 11 which should give you Jan 07 challenges, your start time.
Then open the first challenge when you started and you will see your votes,
Now it won't be hard to find your 3 and below scores as this will be almost all your votes.
Now you just continue each challenge after that.

03/10/2008 11:25:48 PM · #68

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

If I could tell which ones I voted low I would go back right now and comment on them. You find out for me and let me know okay.

Easy: go to any challenge results and click "Order by my Vote."

03/10/2008 11:39:15 PM · #69

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
If I could tell which ones I voted low I would go back right now and comment on them. You find out for me and let me know okay.

Easy: go to any challenge results and click "Order by my Vote."

I will do that. Thanks

03/10/2008 11:39:55 PM · #70

Guys I can understand that we all donâ��t like to be forced to do new things. If someone suggested this and I wasnâ��t the person suggesting it I would probably be in the same shoes you are in. But honestly stop and think about the idea.

How many votes to you truly give out that are 3â��s and below??? Donâ��t you think that if you are giving someone a 3 they should be told what they are doing wrong? If your picture was getting 3â��s wouldnâ��t you want to know why??? I know Shelia would. Aka Beecee. She loves comments on her pictures telling her what she isnâ��t doing right. She would love for someone to let her know that â��hey I gave you a 3 because your lighting is way off. Youâ��re image is out of focus and your subject just doesnâ��t meet the challenge rules IN MY EYESâ�� This doesnâ��t make you a bad photographer but hopefully it would help you get better.

My VERY first picture I submitting I had no clue what I was doing. I saw pictures on the site that used BGâ��s and I thought I would try it. Look at the comments I got. Since then I have watched many things very closely. I read a thread started my scalvert or Larus (I think) that told many of us how to be a better photographer. What to look for and what to shoot. I remember it saying something like ribbon winners arenâ��t something you see in every day life. Shoot something that you wouldnâ��t normally see through the eye of the average.

My SUGGESTION is only that. â��Iâ�� think that if we could have a control on troll voting it would make people better at photography because people would get more feedback.

If you vote a 3 or below, leave a comment. How hard it that? I could see if you were handing out 40 1â��s and 80 3â��s, hell no I wouldnâ��t want to comment on that. But if you give out 3 or 4 or 10 commenting on that wouldnâ��t take you anytime at all. If you donâ��t want to comment on all 10 at one time donâ��t. You have the entire time the challenge is under voting to comment. Everyoneâ��s quick to do some math. Do this math. 10 comments over 7 daysâ�¦ Thatâ��s less than 1.5 comments a day. Again how hard is that?

Itâ��s not like if you vote a 3 you canâ��t go to the next picture in line. Maybe I need to make my suggestion more clear.

So here it is.

Flex force people to comment on challenge entries marked with a vote of 3 or below. You have the remaining time of the challenge to comment on these pictures.
If youâ��re low votes are not commented by the end of the challenge then these votes will be dropped off just like they are if you donâ��t vote on 20% of the challenge.
If you vote a 3 or below on a challenge entry you can comment on it then or come back to it later.
You DO NOT need to comment on the picture at the time of the initial vote.
Doing this would stop troll voting in the way we recognize it now. People go thru the challenges and vote low on entries just so the scores are decreased in hopes that their entries (or friends entries) can score higher than normal.
For those that truly give out 1â��s, 2â��s and 3â��s and leave comments will be greatly appreciated and will build this site to be a better one. Photographers will emerge all over and this site would do what it was actually started for.

For some people the site does help. It helped me, and many others I know. But it took me a long time to find out what makes a good picture/photographer.

So all I ask is please think about what I am asking exactly vs. what your initial thought of my idea is/was.

How many 3â��s, 2â��s, and 1â��s do you truly give out during voting???

Message edited by author 2008-03-10 23:40:07.

03/10/2008 11:46:34 PM · #71

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

How many 3â��s, 2â��s, and 1â��s do you truly give out during voting???

Apparently I vote 6% and you vote 17.8% 3 or below.

Your suggestion is noted and filed for future reference.

03/10/2008 11:50:16 PM · #72

Actually DD you have asked a lot of questions in this thread now I've got a one for you.

According to your signature we should:

How we should vote:
10 = Perfect | 9 = Almost Perfect | 8 = Excellent Picture | 7 = VERY Good Picture | 6 = Great Shot | 5 = Average shot Needs work
4 = Thanks for entering | 3 = Lighting, angle, subject, and/or clarity is not right | 2 = What were you thinking? | 1 = You Shouldnâ��t have entered this challenge.

Is this how you vote?

03/10/2008 11:52:52 PM · #73

Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

How many 3â��s, 2â��s, and 1â��s do you truly give out during voting???

Apparently I vote 6% and you vote 17.8% 3 or below.

Your suggestion is noted and filed for future reference.

I'm sure if I voted on 25,126 entries my average would be lower than 6%. Letâ��s actually look at how many you gave vs. how many I gave. I'm sure you have given out more than me.

For someone who complains about complainers you sure are doing a wonderful job of complaining. And after the couple of PM's you sent me about being a bigger man and doing this and that really shows me that if you thought you were any bigger of a man than me. You thought wrong buddy.