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06/12/2008 01:00:06 AM · #1 |
i currently have a rebel xti, speedlite 430ex, and some japanese yinyan cy-32twz flash (same site you can get the cactus flash triggers from)
i have the cactus V2's for both flashes but i just cant take the unreliability of them anymore. the range is horrible and they keep test firing constantly, sometimes once every 10 seconds. i want to buy some reliable triggers for both flashes.
my price is quite limited, under 600 preferably. i would consider used equipment for sure, especially if i could get my hands on some used pocket wizards.
there is a problem though, both flashes dont have sync terminals so im pretty sure pocket wizards are out of the question. unless you can get cheap terminals to attach to the flash?
i also realize i could get a speedlite 580ex for the slave feature but wouldnt that mean that flash would have to be mounted on the hotshoe? i suppose i could use the sync terminal from my V2 trigger to hook a large PC cable to it but that just adds to the cost.
so what are my best options (please add any i missed) and prices? |
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06/12/2008 10:50:13 AM · #2 |
You can buy 3.5mm miniphone to hotshoe cables.
www.flashzebra.com is run by a very helpful guy name lonnie. He makes the cables and so it keeps the prices down and if you don't find what you need on his site, he can definitely help you out.
Right now, the two major reliable triggers are the Elinchrom Skyports and the Pocket Wizards. The Elinchrom cost about $185 for a trigger and a receiver and about $100 for additional receivers. They're almost half the price of PW's and are just as reliable. They don't advertise as great a range though. They have an internal rechargable battery, which could be a con for some people or a pro for others. It makes forgetting to charge your battery a big problem, where as the PW's use standard AA's. They're a pretty solid choice though if you budget won't support the PW's.
I have PW's and I love everything about them except the price. I've never had a problem with them firing that was due to a fault in the PW's. The one real advantage I like is that they're the industry standard. My next purchase of a light meter is going to be one that will fire my PW's. That means no cables what-so-ever in my studio. They also claim to have a range of 1600 feet. I believe the Skyports is somewhere in the 350' vicinity. I'll probably never test them to 1600', but I know I've shot in some pretty high interference areas where a set of Elinchroms might have proved a bit more of a problem.
Either way, you can't go wrong. Personal preferences and budget are probably going to be your big deciding factors. I spent nearly $800 on 4 PW's. I could have had an Elinchrom trigger and three receivers for about $400. |
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06/12/2008 10:57:34 AM · #3 |
The strobist article on pocket wizards:
//strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101-pc-cords-and-pocket.html
I think they've got some instructions (or links to them) on how to set em up.
eta: They also have a deal with Midwest Photo Exchange so that you can actually purchase all the stuff together at a reasonable price. I haven't dealt with them personally but haven't heard of any issues.
Message edited by author 2008-06-12 11:05:21. |
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06/12/2008 11:00:16 AM · #4 |
Originally posted by cokronk:
Either way, you can't go wrong. Personal preferences and budget are probably going to be your big deciding factors. I spent nearly $800 on 4 PW's. I could have had an Elinchrom trigger and three receivers for about $400. |
I believe, and  cokronkcan correct me on this, the Pocket wizards are transceivers meaning that you can that each unit can send AND receive. |
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06/12/2008 11:12:01 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by Citadel:
Originally posted by cokronk:
Either way, you can't go wrong. Personal preferences and budget are probably going to be your big deciding factors. I spent nearly $800 on 4 PW's. I could have had an Elinchrom trigger and three receivers for about $400. |
I believe, and cokronkcan correct me on this, the Pocket wizards are transceivers meaning that you can that each unit can send AND receive. |
Correct. You can also put a unit on your camera and trigger your camera with the right cable, as well as trigger other PW's that are set to one channel higher than the trigger on the camera. Neat, but expensive trick. |
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06/12/2008 01:48:21 PM · #6 |
600 bucks:
Skyports, 1 transmit, 3 recieve: $400
2x Nikon SB-24,25,26,28: 60-100 each on ebay.
Adapter thingy for your 430.
3 flashes and radio slaves for 600 bucks... slick! |
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06/12/2008 02:28:55 PM · #7 |
I had the Cactus V2s and hated them. I sold them and bought the Cactus 16 channel set that's meant for studio strobes. Then I cut the jacks off the end and hacked on PC plugs. I used those curshable wire-joiners; took five minutes and no special skills.
A week ago I added the DIY antenna mod to my Cactus transmitter. The port is already on the circuit board for it. You drill a hole in the top case, bolt on the antenna, and solder one wire from the circuit board to the antenna, and bingo, you're in business. I now can now use the transmitter from the other side of my basement, shooting through a wall, and mis-fires are a thing of the past.
The whole thing was easy and took no special skills. I had never soldered anything before, but borrowed a soldering iron and some flux from a friend and it was a snap. The whole Cactus kit (1 Tx and 3 Rx) cost maybe $50. The antenna pieces (listed on the mod site, ordered from Digi-Key) cost under $10. Three PC cords from Adorama (to cut the PC plugs off) ran about $30. The misc. electrical connectors were about $3.
The only downside is, even the 16 channel Cactus with a hotshoe adapter doesn't work nicely with my Canon 430EX. But with the Nikons, it works perfectly.
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06/12/2008 03:02:33 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by option:
600 bucks:
Skyports, 1 transmit, 3 recieve: $400
2x Nikon SB-24,25,26,28: 60-100 each on ebay.
Adapter thingy for your 430.
3 flashes and radio slaves for 600 bucks... slick! |
Older Nikon strobes have gotten expensive and are unnecessary when using radio triggers that only allow them to operate manually. New Sunpak 383's are $80 a pop and can be found for even less on e-bay. Like $50 or $60, iirc. |
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06/12/2008 04:11:33 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by cokronk:
Originally posted by option:
600 bucks:
Skyports, 1 transmit, 3 recieve: $400
2x Nikon SB-24,25,26,28: 60-100 each on ebay.
Adapter thingy for your 430.
3 flashes and radio slaves for 600 bucks... slick! |
Older Nikon strobes have gotten expensive and are unnecessary when using radio triggers that only allow them to operate manually. New Sunpak 383's are $80 a pop and can be found for even less on e-bay. Like $50 or $60, iirc. |
Whats the flash duration on a sunpak at full power? I know sessions is using them for action shots, and he'll need the 1/1000 duration @ max power that the Nikon speedlights (Vivitar 285/3's work too) provide.
If you're willing to wait for a few weeks, you'll nab a Nikon flash off ebay for under $80, shipped. Also, craigslist is great... I just got a mint SB28 for $80. |
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06/12/2008 04:26:06 PM · #10 |
| 1/10000-1/15000 at the slowest? |
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06/12/2008 04:28:09 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by cokronk:
1/10000-1/15000 at the slowest? |
I looked it up, its 1/700th... :-P |
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06/12/2008 04:45:32 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by option:
Originally posted by cokronk:
1/10000-1/15000 at the slowest? |
I looked it up, its 1/700th... :-P |
Uh...that can't be right. They're your typical speed light. That's more along the lines of a low end high power monolight.
Here's a page with a guy shooting with a Sunpak 383. It shows a marked disc moving with trying to stop it with just camera shutter speed and that it doesn't work too well at 1/4000, then there's a picture below those with the Sunpak 383 and the disc is nearly stopped. 1/700 isn't even close.
//webs.lanset.com/rcochran/flash/hss.html
Message edited by author 2008-06-12 16:52:38. |
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06/12/2008 05:17:21 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by cokronk:
Originally posted by option:
Originally posted by cokronk:
1/10000-1/15000 at the slowest? |
I looked it up, its 1/700th... :-P |
Uh...that can't be right. They're your typical speed light. That's more along the lines of a low end high power monolight.
Here's a page with a guy shooting with a Sunpak 383. It shows a marked disc moving with trying to stop it with just camera shutter speed and that it doesn't work too well at 1/4000, then there's a picture below those with the Sunpak 383 and the disc is nearly stopped. 1/700 isn't even close.
//webs.lanset.com/rcochran/flash/hss.html |
1/700th is at full power. If you crank the power down, the duration goes as low as 1/20000. Its in the manual.
But, for shooting action stuff, it doesn't matter what the duration is when shooting at 1/64th power on the flash. Most of the time, with a tiny speedlight, you're shooting at 1/2 or full power. 1/700th isn't fast enough to freeze the action for the sports that myself and sessions shoot.
With most sunpak units, you need to shoot at 1/2 power to get a fast enough duration to freeze the action. The Nikon SB's and Vivitar 285s all have a maximum duration of ~1/1000 at full power, which is good enough for shooting tele. You'd need to be shooting at 1/2 or 1/4 power if you were in close, shooting wide, where you need 1/2000 or faster to freeze the action. |
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06/13/2008 01:06:21 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by option:
Originally posted by cokronk:
Originally posted by option:
Originally posted by cokronk:
1/10000-1/15000 at the slowest? |
I looked it up, its 1/700th... :-P |
Uh...that can't be right. They're your typical speed light. That's more along the lines of a low end high power monolight.
Here's a page with a guy shooting with a Sunpak 383. It shows a marked disc moving with trying to stop it with just camera shutter speed and that it doesn't work too well at 1/4000, then there's a picture below those with the Sunpak 383 and the disc is nearly stopped. 1/700 isn't even close.
//webs.lanset.com/rcochran/flash/hss.html |
1/700th is at full power. If you crank the power down, the duration goes as low as 1/20000. Its in the manual.
But, for shooting action stuff, it doesn't matter what the duration is when shooting at 1/64th power on the flash. Most of the time, with a tiny speedlight, you're shooting at 1/2 or full power. 1/700th isn't fast enough to freeze the action for the sports that myself and sessions shoot.
With most sunpak units, you need to shoot at 1/2 power to get a fast enough duration to freeze the action. The Nikon SB's and Vivitar 285s all have a maximum duration of ~1/1000 at full power, which is good enough for shooting tele. You'd need to be shooting at 1/2 or 1/4 power if you were in close, shooting wide, where you need 1/2000 or faster to freeze the action. |
so i have decided to go with the elinchrom skyport transeiver and universal recievers. they seem like the best bang for my buck, and it will leave the smallest dent in my wallet. ill have to find a place that sells the hotshoe adapter to hook the PC cable up to, i dont feel like ordering one off the net for something so inexpensive. now i have to scrounge up my pennies and go to the store tomorrow haha.
option your always a huge help and i appreciate it! i just need to know the best flash durration for action sports. haha i cant quite keep up with the lingo so if you could state it in the simplest terms. and thanks to everyone who helped me out! |
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06/13/2008 01:12:33 AM · #15 |
Haha, where else would I direct you: Wheels and Wax has an article just for you!
"Some relatively inexpensive and popular speedlights include the Vivitar 285's, Nikon SB 24,26,28 and 80's which have a duration around 1/1000th at full power."
Also, the Strobist flickr group has a massive wealth of information in the discussion groups.
I should also add, I'm a huge hypocrite here: I just ordered a V2s set to get my new SB28 working off camera. No coin for wizards right now for me :-(.
Message edited by author 2008-06-13 01:15:38. |
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06/13/2008 09:54:18 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by option:
Originally posted by cokronk:
Originally posted by option:
Originally posted by cokronk:
1/10000-1/15000 at the slowest? |
I looked it up, its 1/700th... :-P |
Uh...that can't be right. They're your typical speed light. That's more along the lines of a low end high power monolight.
Here's a page with a guy shooting with a Sunpak 383. It shows a marked disc moving with trying to stop it with just camera shutter speed and that it doesn't work too well at 1/4000, then there's a picture below those with the Sunpak 383 and the disc is nearly stopped. 1/700 isn't even close.
//webs.lanset.com/rcochran/flash/hss.html |
1/700th is at full power. If you crank the power down, the duration goes as low as 1/20000. Its in the manual.
But, for shooting action stuff, it doesn't matter what the duration is when shooting at 1/64th power on the flash. Most of the time, with a tiny speedlight, you're shooting at 1/2 or full power. 1/700th isn't fast enough to freeze the action for the sports that myself and sessions shoot.
With most sunpak units, you need to shoot at 1/2 power to get a fast enough duration to freeze the action. The Nikon SB's and Vivitar 285s all have a maximum duration of ~1/1000 at full power, which is good enough for shooting tele. You'd need to be shooting at 1/2 or 1/4 power if you were in close, shooting wide, where you need 1/2000 or faster to freeze the action. |
Eh...Thought they were much higher than that at full power. The 580 EX is only 1/883. |
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06/13/2008 12:58:03 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by cokronk:
The 580 EX is only 1/883. |
Heh, Nikon FTW! |
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