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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Shd comments be mandatory ?
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 08/29/2008 04:47:01 PM · #51
A - Just because someone gives a low vote, doesn't mean they are a troll

B - Some people just won't like your pictures

C - You can't make me do nuttin, its a free world

D - All of the above.

Glad to help. :)

08/29/2008 04:57:49 PM · #52
You all make great photos, you are all NG quality. I love your work. I feel so little when I see all these great photos.

That's basically what everyone wants to hear, so there you have it and that's why I haven't commented in a year.
 08/29/2008 05:03:55 PM · #53
Originally posted by PlayWithFire:
As much as i would love it for everyone to comment on my picture, i would hate to be forced to do so.
But, i gotta say, i hate seeing a 1, and no explanation. Especially when there is not a single 2 or 3.


People that give ones are not generally people who I would feel have a lot to offer in the way of comments other than that they felt it DNMC, or I guess they might want to confess they are a low life troll...:)
 08/29/2008 05:04:16 PM · #54
"This is your required comment."

CUT AND PASTE.
 08/29/2008 05:17:42 PM · #55
Originally posted by alanfreed:
Originally posted by Prash:
But that would also guarantee only serious guys vote, no? Are you saying you are ok with 1000 trollers who make voting a roller caster ride, as opposed to 100 serius voters?


I have faithfully voted on every image in every challenge since I became a member of this site over six years ago (with VERY few exceptions). Are you saying votes I have cast without a comment are not "serious" votes, then?


There are exceptions always, obviously. I am not questioning any one individual. I am questioning the need for more comments.
 08/29/2008 05:20:52 PM · #56
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Prash:
Having been a part of the first challenge, I feel there is a need for more people to comment and not just troll (I realized the same myself, because the comments arent mandatory, I would just keep rating the pictures and move on).

So heres the big question: Why cant we make comments mandatory?

First I thought we do that only if someone rates a picture <=4.. but then everybody would tend to give at least a 5 to avoid writing one.

There are a few downsides I still see here:

[1] People might just garble instead of commenting -> but perhaps one can find out who did that after voting ends.

[2] People might 'copy/paste' same comment to all pics -> again, one risks their credibility if it becomes known who is doing that.

I feel this could work.

What do you guys think??


It is most effective when you lead by example.


I am not trying to lead, I am curious as to what will make a good scheme for commenting. And you supported my question in part when you questioned whether I do that. This is only my 2nd week at DCP and I didnt like that fact that I could just rate an image without commenting it if I wanted...and I did. It would be a lie if one said they have never done that ever.
 08/29/2008 05:22:16 PM · #57
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Prash:
Having been a part of the first challenge, I feel there is a need for more people to comment and not just troll (I realized the same myself, because the comments arent mandatory, I would just keep rating the pictures and move on).

So heres the big question: Why cant we make comments mandatory?

First I thought we do that only if someone rates a picture <=4.. but then everybody would tend to give at least a 5 to avoid writing one.

There are a few downsides I still see here:

[1] People might just garble instead of commenting -> but perhaps one can find out who did that after voting ends.

[2] People might 'copy/paste' same comment to all pics -> again, one risks their credibility if it becomes known who is doing that.

I feel this could work.

What do you guys think??


It is most effective when you lead by example.


I am not trying to lead, I am curious as to what will make a good scheme for commenting. And you supported my question in part when you questioned whether I do that. This is only my 2nd week at DCP and I didnt like that fact that I could just rate an image without commenting it if I wanted...and I did. It would be a lie if one said they have never done that ever.


... and?
 08/29/2008 05:23:22 PM · #58
Originally posted by Citadel:
Forced to comment? Here is the first ten for you:
'Nice Picture'
'OK'
'Yup. That's a flower'
'Nice.'
'5'
'I like it'
'DNMC'
'1'
'cute'
'pretty'

You can't force people to provide good comments. What you can do is ask for them though.

:)


It is not about forcing people for good comments only.. they are rarely useful. It is about forcing them to 'comment' and I would be pretty happy if I had gotton those ten comments.. better than no comments.

How can you force people to vote on at least 20% of images in the first place? Why is that accepted and not commenting?

Message edited by author 2008-08-29 17:24:14.
 08/29/2008 05:24:46 PM · #59
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by Citadel:
Forced to comment? Here is the first ten for you:
'Nice Picture'
'OK'
'Yup. That's a flower'
'Nice.'
'5'
'I like it'
'DNMC'
'1'
'cute'
'pretty'

You can't force people to provide good comments. What you can do is ask for them though.

:)


It is not about forcing people for good comments only.. they are rarely useful. It is about forcing them to 'comment' and I would be pretty happy if I had gotton those ten comments.. better than no comments.

How can you force people to vote on at least 20% of images in the first place? Why is that accepted and not commenting? That just sounds hypocritic.


Uh, no. The 20% requirement is so that every image receives a balanced number of votes so the scores aren't skewed.
08/29/2008 05:26:12 PM · #60
Originally posted by idnic:
A - Just because someone gives a low vote, doesn't mean they are a troll

B - Some people just won't like your pictures

C - You can't make me do nuttin, its a free world

D - All of the above.

Glad to help. :)


They are making you vote on at least 20% images to be counted .. in this free world.. did you know that? :-)
08/29/2008 05:28:33 PM · #61
Originally posted by Azrifel:
You all make great photos, you are all NG quality. I love your work. I feel so little when I see all these great photos.

That's basically what everyone wants to hear, so there you have it and that's why I haven't commented in a year.


No, that is absolutely incorrect. Thats not what one would want to hear if they want to improve.
 08/29/2008 05:29:37 PM · #62
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Prash:
Having been a part of the first challenge, I feel there is a need for more people to comment and not just troll (I realized the same myself, because the comments arent mandatory, I would just keep rating the pictures and move on).

So heres the big question: Why cant we make comments mandatory?

First I thought we do that only if someone rates a picture <=4.. but then everybody would tend to give at least a 5 to avoid writing one.

There are a few downsides I still see here:

[1] People might just garble instead of commenting -> but perhaps one can find out who did that after voting ends.

[2] People might 'copy/paste' same comment to all pics -> again, one risks their credibility if it becomes known who is doing that.

I feel this could work.

What do you guys think??


It is most effective when you lead by example.


I am not trying to lead, I am curious as to what will make a good scheme for commenting. And you supported my question in part when you questioned whether I do that. This is only my 2nd week at DCP and I didnt like that fact that I could just rate an image without commenting it if I wanted...and I did. It would be a lie if one said they have never done that ever.


... and?


"...and"? How does that help?

Message edited by author 2008-08-29 17:30:30.
 08/29/2008 05:30:42 PM · #63
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Prash:
Having been a part of the first challenge, I feel there is a need for more people to comment and not just troll (I realized the same myself, because the comments arent mandatory, I would just keep rating the pictures and move on).

So heres the big question: Why cant we make comments mandatory?

First I thought we do that only if someone rates a picture <=4.. but then everybody would tend to give at least a 5 to avoid writing one.

There are a few downsides I still see here:

[1] People might just garble instead of commenting -> but perhaps one can find out who did that after voting ends.

[2] People might 'copy/paste' same comment to all pics -> again, one risks their credibility if it becomes known who is doing that.

I feel this could work.

What do you guys think??


It is most effective when you lead by example.


I am not trying to lead, I am curious as to what will make a good scheme for commenting. And you supported my question in part when you questioned whether I do that. This is only my 2nd week at DCP and I didnt like that fact that I could just rate an image without commenting it if I wanted...and I did. It would be a lie if one said they have never done that ever.


... and?


What "...and"? How does that help?


Help what?

What's your point?

Message edited by author 2008-08-29 17:31:01.
 08/29/2008 05:33:39 PM · #64
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Prash:
Having been a part of the first challenge, I feel there is a need for more people to comment and not just troll (I realized the same myself, because the comments arent mandatory, I would just keep rating the pictures and move on).

So heres the big question: Why cant we make comments mandatory?

First I thought we do that only if someone rates a picture <=4.. but then everybody would tend to give at least a 5 to avoid writing one.

There are a few downsides I still see here:

[1] People might just garble instead of commenting -> but perhaps one can find out who did that after voting ends.

[2] People might 'copy/paste' same comment to all pics -> again, one risks their credibility if it becomes known who is doing that.

I feel this could work.

What do you guys think??


It is most effective when you lead by example.


I am not trying to lead, I am curious as to what will make a good scheme for commenting. And you supported my question in part when you questioned whether I do that. This is only my 2nd week at DCP and I didnt like that fact that I could just rate an image without commenting it if I wanted...and I did. It would be a lie if one said they have never done that ever.


... and?


"...and"? How does that help?


Help what?

What's your point?


Help this discussion.

As I said before, I am curious as to what will make a good scheme for commenting.
 08/29/2008 05:35:24 PM · #65
Originally posted by Prash:
This is only my 2nd week at DCP and I didnt like that fact that I could just rate an image without commenting it if I wanted...and I did. It would be a lie if one said they have never done that ever.


What's your point?

The 'and' reference was to this as your statement is incomplete.

Message edited by author 2008-08-29 17:36:18.
 08/29/2008 05:39:38 PM · #66
Prash, I'm a wee bit confused by your thinking here....

You say that commenting should be mandatory (whether it be on all pics, 20%, or whatever) because not enough people comment and that this is a bad thing. You say it's bad that people can vote and move on without leaving their opinion, that you've done it yourself; from what I've heard, your comment-leaving has been absolutely minimal.

I seem to be hearing you saying that you can't be bothered leaving comments and you quite happily vote and move along....but you think voting on a certain amount should be mandatory? Is this to ensure that you receive comments each challenge?

Am I the only one a little confused by this?!? I'm not attacking you with this Prash, nor trying to start an argument, I'm just a wee bit confuddled by this conversation.

By the way, somebody save me a handful of sweet popcorn please :)
 08/29/2008 05:46:07 PM · #67
Originally posted by LadyTara:
Prash, I'm a wee bit confused by your thinking here....

You say that commenting should be mandatory (whether it be on all pics, 20%, or whatever) because not enough people comment and that this is a bad thing. You say it's bad that people can vote and move on without leaving their opinion, that you've done it yourself; from what I've heard, your comment-leaving has been absolutely minimal.

I seem to be hearing you saying that you can't be bothered leaving comments and you quite happily vote and move along....but you think voting on a certain amount should be mandatory? Is this to ensure that you receive comments each challenge?

Am I the only one a little confused by this?!? I'm not attacking you with this Prash, nor trying to start an argument, I'm just a wee bit confuddled by this conversation.

By the way, somebody save me a handful of sweet popcorn please :)


LadyTara,

Thank you for the comment. Let me clarify this:

[1] This is not about only me trying to get comments, this is about me looking for a better way that people would comment on more pictures.

[2] I did not say I am happy with not leaving a comment and moving on just with a vote. I was trying to make a case that I saw first-hand, how easy it is not to comment. I would be happy if there were more comments for everyone.

[3] If we enforce voting on a certain % of pictures in a challenge, perhaps enforcing the same for comments might help.

The goal if for us to get more comments.

I hope that clarifies the confusion a little bit, thank you for your patience.
 08/29/2008 05:48:30 PM · #68
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Prash:
This is only my 2nd week at DCP and I didnt like that fact that I could just rate an image without commenting it if I wanted...and I did. It would be a lie if one said they have never done that ever.


What's your point?

The 'and' reference was to this as your statement is incomplete.


Ohh ok. Sorry I mis-understood.

My point is this: "Can there be a way to encourage or guarantee more comments per challenge per participant, just as we guarantee at least a balanced voting structure?"
 08/29/2008 05:49:47 PM · #69
One thing to remember is that making comments can be just as educational as receiving comments. I'm also curious: If "nice pic" is a good comment to you what do you want to get out of the comments you receive? Nice pic is nothing but a cursory pat on the back.

Just for the record. Look at ambaker's comments for example of good comments. He hasn't entered a lot until recently but man he puts a lot of thought and detail into his comments. (Which I for one REALLY appreciate),
08/29/2008 05:58:10 PM · #70
Originally posted by Citadel:
One thing to remember is that making comments can be just as educational as receiving comments. I'm also curious: If "nice pic" is a good comment to you what do you want to get out of the comments you receive? Nice pic is nothing but a cursory pat on the back.

Just for the record. Look at ambaker's comments for example of good comments. He hasn't entered a lot until recently but man he puts a lot of thought and detail into his comments. (Which I for one REALLY appreciate),


Great examples to learn from.

Thank you very much indeed for sharing!!
 08/29/2008 05:59:09 PM · #71
I guess you could also look at it this way; even if you don't get many or even any comments on your entry, your average and final placing are just as good an indication of what the majority of people thought of your picture. If either/both are low, it's likely just a simple case of 'if you can't say something nice.....'

Hmm I think I just had an epiphany.
 08/29/2008 06:03:28 PM · #72
Originally posted by LadyTara:
I guess you could also look at it this way; even if you don't get many or even any comments on your entry, your average and final placing are just as good an indication of what the majority of people thought of your picture. If either/both are low, it's likely just a simple case of 'if you can't say something nice.....'

Hmm I think I just had an epiphany.


Well...yea...but low scores would only indicate that the picture wasnt liked by a majority. They wouldnt indicate what to improve in order to get there in the future. Right?

08/29/2008 06:09:00 PM · #73
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by LadyTara:
I guess you could also look at it this way; even if you don't get many or even any comments on your entry, your average and final placing are just as good an indication of what the majority of people thought of your picture. If either/both are low, it's likely just a simple case of 'if you can't say something nice.....'

Hmm I think I just had an epiphany.


Well...yea...but low scores would only indicate that the picture wasnt liked by a majority. They wouldnt indicate what to improve in order to get there in the future. Right?


You can look at the winners for that... for all the reasons already stated I dont thin mandatory commenting is a good thing... I don't have a ton of time to vote and comment, so when I comment it's on something that gives me pause... I would vote much less if I had to comment on everything I voted on...
 08/29/2008 06:11:49 PM · #74
Originally posted by Prash:
Originally posted by LadyTara:
I guess you could also look at it this way; even if you don't get many or even any comments on your entry, your average and final placing are just as good an indication of what the majority of people thought of your picture. If either/both are low, it's likely just a simple case of 'if you can't say something nice.....'

Hmm I think I just had an epiphany.


Well...yea...but low scores would only indicate that the picture wasnt liked by a majority. They wouldnt indicate what to improve in order to get there in the future. Right?


Yep, also true.

There's always the possibility that people like your work but have no idea what to actually say about it, so they don't try. I know that's been the case with me on some of the abstract pictures; I like a good many of them but can't come up with the reason for each one; mostly I think the photos are, quite simply, pretty to look at. Can't just say that to everyone though.

Or maybe nobody wants to share their wisdom incase others gather it all up and become better than them! Secret conspiracy! Ok that one was probably a bit silly.....
 08/29/2008 08:12:03 PM · #75
First of all welcome to the madness of DPC!

Second I want to point out that I̢۪m the first to admit that I haven̢۪t commented as much as I would like nor as much as I should to be a good community member (IMHO). So take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Here’s my response to your questionâ€Â¦
Originally posted by Prash:
My point is this: "Can there be a way to encourage or guarantee more comments per challenge per participant, just as we guarantee at least a balanced voting structure?"


Yes we could force more comments but probably not without reducing the number of votes or the integrity of the voting distribution. We̢۪ve already experienced forced comments on votes less than 4. Guess what happens when you do this? 4 becomes the new 1 and people don̢۪t use the full voting scale as much. Please remember this is DPChallenge not DPCritique. Without adequate votes results are more susceptible to bias. I for one like to vote on all of the images in a given challenge. I feel that I̢۪ve given them all a fair chance in the competition that way. This is my style by the way. I don̢۪t feel everyone has to use the same approach. If the site were to force comments on all votes I and many others simply could not vote the way we do today.

Comments especially constructive comments are like the cherry on the top of the sundae. I̢۪d love to have more and I wish I had the discipline and time to leave more but we can̢۪t jeopardize the voting process to get more cherries.

We can encourage and even provide incentives like Judi's 100% comment club and 100% comment challenges but we can't force without a negative impact.
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