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04/22/2004 05:11:55 PM · #26 |
Yeah, very considerate of the administration to keep the families' sons in a country that doesn't want them, so they can get killed and then be hidden in shame from the media while Cheney's company makes pots of cash in the process. But at least we won't be invading their privacy, what with the box being so personal and all.
Poor bastards.
What a waste. Remove a secular tyrant, end up with a fundamentalist tyrant. Just wait. |
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04/22/2004 05:27:06 PM · #27 |
If my son or daughter was killed in another country in the service of my country, I would want the coffin shown and saluted at every stop on the way back to me. I'd want every person on the trip to know that that person did what they thought was right and died because of it. I'd want every mother and father in the nation to feel and share my grief over the loss of a valuable soul. I would be very angry to see that sacrifice being treated like a tramp being brought in thru the back door.
I feel it's being done to keep the emotional aspect of the war at bay. A few numbers in a newspaper doesn't have nearly the impact of a flag covered coffin. As far as respect goes, go ask Sadam's daughters about their brothers.
That's just my thoughts, you are free to ignore them if you want to. |
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04/22/2004 05:32:20 PM · #28 |
| Yeah another political thread that I have no interest in. Could we please move this into the rant section. Or talk about the merits of the photo in question. I like the composition and it is very emotive. |
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04/22/2004 05:39:42 PM · #29 |
The Americans (by Americans I mean politicians etc.) doesn't seem to have a problem showing coffins or even dead people in Iraq or any other country before next of kin is notified. It seems to me that Americans respect their own but not others...
What happened to mutual respect?
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Message edited by author 2004-04-22 17:54:16. |
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04/22/2004 05:41:59 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by Are_62:
The Americans doesn't seem to have a problem showing coffins or even dead people in Iraq or any other country before next of kin is notified. It seems to me that Americans respect their own but not others...
What happened to mutual respect?
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." |
Like Jimmyn4 said, let's get this back to the photographer and the photographs.. although it is difficult to keep that separate from the political views because they are intermingled. :(
Hmmm. |
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04/22/2004 05:51:02 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by KarenB:
Like Jimmyn4 said, let's get this back to the photographer and the photographs.. although it is difficult to keep that separate from the political views because they are intermingled. :( Hmmm. |
Agreed - this is the first time I bothered even looking at one of these threads but I was sucked in... :(
Back to my camera and PhotoShop! :) |
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04/22/2004 05:57:24 PM · #32 |
| Prime Minister Cretin and Prime Minister Martin personally meet every Canadian casket from Afghanistan in a very dignified ceremony at the airport with press coverage and photos. |
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04/22/2004 06:01:20 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
Prime Minister Cretin and Prime Minister Martin personally meet every Canadian casket from Afghanistan in a very dignified ceremony at the airport with press coverage and photos. |
I don't think our previous Prime Minister would appreciate you calling him Cretin (Chrétien). ;-)
edit: add French accent
Message edited by author 2004-04-22 18:04:34.
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04/22/2004 06:08:30 PM · #34 |
oops = spelling not my strong point - I was moved by the pictures though.
Romania also had some lovley state ceremonies with the coffins.
Message edited by author 2004-04-22 18:09:40. |
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04/22/2004 06:09:00 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by EL-ROI:
Jab119 -
I feel your pain.
Government policy states: no pictures until the caskets get delivered. They leave that up to you to decide. It's your freedom. They don't want to infringe on your right to privacy.
Your comment about the local news was a ficticious stretch to bring an accusation. Stretching the story to include a fabricated account of government bullying the local media is wrong, it's a lie, and I'm going to call you on it! |
thanks...
All I was saying about the news media NOT being allowed to show this was only a thought of what MIGHT happen one day, not an accusation.
They keep taking stuff away from us and some of it is just plain ridiculous.
James
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04/22/2004 06:16:49 PM · #36 |
The point of the matter is that she IS NOT a photojournalist working for someone, she worked for the company that delivered the remains, therefore she is not allowed to photograph or release any information about the cargo. so she is canned. her husband probably has a case, but...
I work in an ER, where confidentiality is the highest priority, I can't go taking pictures of people in there and posting them (even though I have seen some famous people), I would be fired. Mattter of fact...I can't even say on the phone if a person is in the ER or not...according to HIPPA rules.
THe pictures themselves are good, and make a good story and I believe they need to be seen.
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04/22/2004 06:24:46 PM · #37 |
| I didnt read the threads! But as a US Soldier, I have been on a Aircraft with a Coverd Coffin before! This is a chilling and Great Photo! Not that it is good to show the dead Americans!!! But to show the World how these Soldiers gave there lives so we can be FREE!!! |
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04/22/2004 06:33:25 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
The point of the matter is that she IS NOT a photojournalist working for someone, she worked for the company that delivered the remains, therefore she is not allowed to photograph or release any information about the cargo. so she is canned. her husband probably has a case, but...
I work in an ER, where confidentiality is the highest priority, I can't go taking pictures of people in there and posting them (even though I have seen some famous people), I would be fired. Mattter of fact...I can't even say on the phone if a person is in the ER or not...according to HIPPA rules.
THe pictures themselves are good, and make a good story and I believe they need to be seen. |
Thank you. My sentiments exactly. My guess (from personal experience) is she was probably under some form of non-disclosure agreement in here employment with the contractor, and that was probably the grounds for her dismissal. |
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04/22/2004 06:33:27 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
Prime Minister Cretin and Prime Minister Martin personally meet every Canadian casket from Afghanistan in a very dignified ceremony at the airport with press coverage and photos. |
No disrespect, but that's not a valid argument. They only would have met 6 caskets all together since the beginning of hostilities in Iraq: 1 military, and 5 civilians ( 1 Red-Cross, 1 U.N., 1 CCF, and 2 contractors ).
Bush would have had to meet each of 678 caskets coming to the U.S. That's a big difference.
Ron |
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04/22/2004 06:37:26 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by ellamay:
and people still think america is the land of the free.... |
You Should think that!!! Is 18 Coffins enough for you??? America is the home of the FREE!!! Why should people think it!! I Belive that America is the home of the FREE!!! If you are an American you should be ashamed of yourself!!! |
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04/22/2004 06:41:21 PM · #41 |
| This thread is going to be shunted to the Rant unless we can stick to discussing the merits of the photos in question, technically, journalistically and politically (in the sense of how Govts. deploy censorship and how photojournalists respond). |
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04/22/2004 06:48:49 PM · #42 |
photojournalistically, I don't see how any of the photographs are exploitative. They are very emotionally charged, but I don't think they are objectionable for their contact. War is hell and those caskets are the very very real price being paid not out of a pocket but out of LIVES.
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04/22/2004 06:50:46 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by andywightman:
This thread is going to be shunted to the Rant unless we can stick to discussing the merits of the photos in question, technically, journalistically and politically (in the sense of how Govts. deploy censorship and how photojournalists respond). |
Ok. If them's the rules -
Technically the photos are very good.
Journalistically they represent a serious breach of ethics on two fronts: 1 ) the photographer was NOT a "photo journalist", but instead abused the terms of her employment in taking the pictures; and 2) the Seattle Times was unethical in publishing them, knowing that they were obtained unethically.
Politically, if it is all right to publish these photos, then why was there such a big stink about G.W.Bush using photographs of himself at the ruins of the WTC in his campaign ads?
Ron |
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04/22/2004 06:52:01 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by KevinRiggs:
Originally posted by louddog:
If someone was taking photos of the casket of one of my family members I'd want them fired too. |
Not to stir up your emotions but I didn't see in any of the 3 news articles where any coffin or group of coffins was attributed to any remains. One of the things that made the photo so moving to me was that they were all American soldiers; not that I had a particular attachment to any one of them. I can understand someone not wanting the memory or sacrifice of their loved one to be paraded for emotional or political gain but I thought the image was (A) newsworthy and (B) compelling from a photojournalistic angle.
Kev |
If my son/daughter/brother... just died there and I knew there was a possiblity that they were in one of those, I'd be pretty mad.
Nude pics of Anna Kournakova would be newsworthy and a lot of people would want to see them. But for reason, she has a policy that says her aids/trainers/doctors can't take pics of her in the locker room shower and sell them to the news media. |
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04/22/2004 06:58:25 PM · #45 |
The photos, IMHO, could possibly help the grieving families to know that their loved ones are treated with dignity, respect, and reverence. What powerful images. Of course I don't know the woman, but after reading the articles I believe she was simply trying to show the public what I mentioned above. If I were her, I think it would be worth losing my job over, too.
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04/22/2004 07:08:02 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
The point of the matter is that she IS NOT a photojournalist working for someone, she worked for the company that delivered the remains, therefore she is not allowed to photograph or release any information about the cargo. so she is canned. her husband probably has a case, but...
I work in an ER, where confidentiality is the highest priority, I can't go taking pictures of people in there and posting them (even though I have seen some famous people), I would be fired. Mattter of fact...I can't even say on the phone if a person is in the ER or not...according to HIPPA rules.
THe pictures themselves are good, and make a good story and I believe they need to be seen. |
EXACTLY!
I work on government contracts. Chances are, she would have been fired just for having her camera with her. She knew she wasn't suppose to take the pictures. When you work on a government contract they make sure you know the rules and they enforce them.
Are the photos interesting and do I want to see them? Yes, just as people want to see Anna K pictures, the Pricness Di death photos, and all the other things we, for some reason want to see but probably shouldn't see for one reason or another. |
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04/22/2004 07:13:30 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by laurielblack:
The photos, IMHO, could possibly help the grieving families to know that their loved ones are treated with dignity, respect, and reverence. |
People using the photos of their dead bodies to push a political agenda (as has been done here) is dignity, respect, and reverence?
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04/22/2004 07:13:44 PM · #48 |
Those of us that live in the US, are we forgetting where we live? Land of the free, Freedom of speach, Freedom of press? I think if she really wanted to push this matter that this image will appear more places then it would of if she was just left alone. I think the US government should leard that it is sometimes better to ride the storm then to fight against it.
Tom |
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04/22/2004 07:28:41 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by andywightman:
Note that the US Govt is forbidding images of this kind when it itself arranged for photos of Saddam hussain's dead sons to be distributed around the world. Both are forms of censorship which photojournalism seeks to challenge.
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indeed.
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04/22/2004 07:36:57 PM · #50 |
Yeah, and a US favored tyrannt/puppet.
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
What a waste. Remove a secular tyrant, end up with a fundamentalist tyrant. Just wait. |
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