DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register) 
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Out and About >> LAPD Confiscated My Two 8-Gig Cards.. What to do?!
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 125, (reverse)
AuthorThread
 08/09/2009 07:26:24 PM · #1
I've been shooting the Guardian Angels for the past month, as they train and patrol the streets of LA. It's for a major school assignment, and my pictures thus far have been awesome. Last night, tho, the 9 of them got into a HUGE HUGE fight with like 25 guys who were taunting some ladies. Long story short, one of the Guardian Angels was taken away in critical condition, and I got the whole thing on video with my 5D MarkII. So the police question me afterward, and long story short, they take my cards so they can try catch the guys who did this. I gave it to them rather freely, but honestly I don't think I had a choice. I would've rather given it to them willingly, rather than being demanded to.

Did I do the right thing? I really like the Guardian Angels, especially the guy who was almost killed, so I wanted to help in some way. I told the detective that I could digitally send him the files when I got home, but he said that wouldn't work. I have to hand in pictures from last night for class on Monday, and now I have nothing. Adrenaline was pumping, it was 4 am, so perhaps I made a bad choice to give it away without much of a fight?
 08/09/2009 07:38:43 PM · #2
I think you made the right choice. The police have to take custody of the picures right there on the scene, right out of your camera, or they can't use it. It's part of an ongoing investigation so they can't even give you copies. Hope your teacher is understanding, but you will be a fine news photog one day regardless.
 08/09/2009 07:42:22 PM · #3
Since the fight was on video, I'm assuming you also have pics from prior that would not be part of the investigation. Its a bit late for asking them on a Sunday, but perhaps the detective in charge would be willing to allow you to copy them under his supervision. If they gave you a receipt (and they should have), I'd take it to school with your explanation. Good luck!
 08/09/2009 08:16:18 PM · #4
Ethicly speaking, it is up to you to decide whether you did the right thing or not. According to the law though, no they really didnt have the right to take your memory cards. Since you handed them over, there really probably isnt much that you can do at this point unless you are prepared to shell out the money for a lawyer. Do know that, even when they do give the cards back, they are responsible monitarrily for the value of the cards AND for the content of those cards. Keep us posted on this. Interesting case.
 08/09/2009 08:25:53 PM · #5
It doesn't matter what we think (ethically-wise).

If I was in your position, I'd probably have told the cops that I'd be willing to go back to the station and copy the card, but I'd want to keep the card in my possession, if at all possible.
 08/09/2009 08:50:33 PM · #6
you totaly did the right thing..so your mind should be at ease,you should think of you cards as walking cctv if you catch anything that should involve the police then yes give them to them.thats just my opinion.and im sure your teacher will understand if you just explain the situation.
 08/09/2009 08:56:37 PM · #7
OKay let me get this straight.

A person who was protecting someone else is now in Critical Condition, in your words nearly Killed.

You caught this all on your video

The police want to catch the guys that nearly murdered someone

You caught this all on video and could bring this person to justice who may well end up as a murderer

Oh and now you are all torn up, cos you have NOTHING for your little school project?????????

Excuse me......................

Message edited by author 2009-08-09 20:57:09.
 08/09/2009 09:10:46 PM · #8
what was the alternative? Refuse to give the cops vital evidence of someone being nearly killed?

I'm surprised there's even a debate about this... the cops will give you your cards back when they're good and ready and you should be proud you can help justice take its course.

Jeez man, they're just memory cards.
 08/09/2009 09:21:50 PM · #9
A sad testament to how we perceive value.
 08/09/2009 09:36:45 PM · #10
Well Tom, surely you have copies of what you have filmed up to this point. Use what you have and tell what happened last night. You had no choice. Authoities would have seized your origionals. You did save daily didn't you?
 08/09/2009 10:21:20 PM · #11
it's certainly a better excuse than, "The dog ate my homework." ;)

08/09/2009 10:35:51 PM · #12
I'm certainly not going to throw stones for this photographer wanting to use his photographs for the purpose for which he took them... and concurrently/willingly helping the police.

I think the police, who are sworn in to protect AND SERVE the public, should also think action from one of 'the public' is noble and give him free access to his own belongings any time he wants them... for any reason... whether it's a school project or paper for his toilet. The photographs are his. He is allowing them to use them.

Originally posted by JulietNN:
...

The police want to catch the guys that nearly murdered someone...


That's what they SAY they want his private property given up for.

So, this time it was a CF card... what if it were his house or his child, or wife? "Hand it over now, for the good of the country, just because we say so?"

What then? Everyone has a 'draw the line here' for how far they'll go to help someone who's already dead, and it's different for everyone. There is protocol for this, I'm sure, of which they conveniently forgot to inform him. If the public doesn't know the protocol and gives it up freely, then they're able to treat the evidence as theirs.

And this is the Land of the Free? WHO is the victim here?
08/09/2009 10:53:17 PM · #13
Originally posted by Tez:
Jeez man, they're just memory cards.

I am pretty sure it is not the cards themselves that Tom is concerned about, and not even just about his project. Every week I see new threads about confiscated cards and access denied to photographers followed by pages of outrage! So he is unsure of the correct "photographer" viewpoint and some of you are wanting to crucify him?

Regardless, they could have had a court order very quickly, so they would have taken the cards anyway. In some countries, the police would have forcibly taken the cards... yea, you did the right thing.
 08/09/2009 11:04:45 PM · #14
You people's reactions BLOW ME AWAY! Tom, DO NOT FEEL BAD AT ALL about worrying about your memory cards. Think of all of the moments throughout history that could have been forgotten if film or memory cards were simply turned over. Talk to any photoJ teacher at your school and they will slap their forhead when you tell them you simply turned over the card. I AM NOT SAYING YOU SHOULDNT HAVE COOPERATED (sorry, I feel that needed to be bolded, so some of these peeps couldnt try to turn this on me), but your property, and your shots are just that: YOURS. These have got to be the same people that give away their rights so that the "government can protect them from terrorists." Jeeze people, come on.
 08/09/2009 11:06:04 PM · #15
I personally would not have given them my cards. I would have offered to allow them to let ME copy them to their hard drive at the police station. Otherwise I would have told them if they wanted to take possession of my card they could get a warrant. Once the "evidence" is handed over it won't be given back until the investigation and/or trial is over.

On another note, you better hope there is nothing on that card that could incriminate anyone else including yourself. That card will go through scrutiny, the likes that you have never seen. Recovery software will extract every file possible off that card even those you thought were gone for good.

Matt
 08/09/2009 11:24:05 PM · #16
I'm not a lawyer of any kind, so take this for what it is worth, but IF the police had a copy of any form or fashion and not the original card, and I was a defense attorney, I would have a field day speculating (or at least getting the jury to question) whether or not the "evidence" had been tampered with upon copying, or during the time between the crime and when the cards were turned over.

I know, and you know, there are ways to detect such tampering, and we know the extremes that a good editor can perform (and the difficulty involved), but *most* people have no idea.

My personal opinion is yea, he probably should have turned them over (and no I'm not a give up liberties to protect me from the mean ole terrorist, either), but I have a bit more trust of the the policemen/law enforcement establishment.

Now, if these are dirty cops, maybe they wanted to confiscate the cards to protect themselves (and maybe i've seen too many good cop/bad cop movies). :P

(eta: what are the guardian angels?)

Message edited by author 2009-08-09 23:24:37.
 08/09/2009 11:25:51 PM · #17
Are the people claiming that he shouldn't have given up the cards the same people who complain when a bad guy gets off on a "technicality?" I would hope not.

History has brought us to the point--rightfully so, in my opinion--where we have rights that must be acknowledged by the justice system. If the police don't follow the proper procedures, this criminal will be let go. In our world of Photoshop and image altering, they can't take second-hand JPEGs, or even RAW images after the OP has had the card, alone, for the night.

I understand where some of you are coming from, but let's not overreact. Your rights as Americans might have went backwards over the past year or eight, but we're not talking about fighting the British here. He didn't give up any rights by volunteering his memory cards as a good deed.

The OP is doing justice a great service by helping out.
 08/09/2009 11:29:21 PM · #18
Originally posted by amathiasphoto:
You people's reactions BLOW ME AWAY! Tom, DO NOT FEEL BAD AT ALL about worrying about your memory cards. Think of all of the moments throughout history that could have been forgotten if film or memory cards were simply turned over. Talk to any photoJ teacher at your school and they will slap their forhead when you tell them you simply turned over the card. I AM NOT SAYING YOU SHOULDNT HAVE COOPERATED (sorry, I feel that needed to be bolded, so some of these peeps couldnt try to turn this on me), but your property, and your shots are just that: YOURS. These have got to be the same people that give away their rights so that the "government can protect them from terrorists." Jeeze people, come on.

Don't you feel you're overreacting about the police in the least bit?

If something happened to you or your family, and someone CAUGHT THE ACT ON VIDEO, what would you want them to do? Turn the video over to the police, or take the images home in their lust for the Constitution only to have the criminal get off on "reasonable doubt?"
 08/09/2009 11:37:19 PM · #19
Originally posted by karmat:
(eta: what are the guardian angels?)


//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_Angels

Private citizen group that helps patrol the streets of big cities in the hope that their presence can deter crime, and if not they are trained on how to legally make a citizen's arrest. They are unarmed. They are trained on how to diffuse situations.

Message edited by author 2009-08-09 23:37:31.
 08/09/2009 11:43:19 PM · #20
You did the right thing. Ask the police for a property receipt for your project and be proud of what you did.
 08/09/2009 11:48:54 PM · #21
Geoffb, I NEVER said anything bad about the police. I never said that he shouldnt have cooperated, but I am stating that he has the rights to those cards, and that they never had the right to take them unless he, without any pressure, was willing to give them up. Those are his RIGHTS, and it sickens me that anybody would get frusterated with him doubting or questioning his actions from the evening.

I am a photojournalist. If I turn over a card to the police any time they ask for them, I guarantee there would be days my boss would not a happy camper. HOWEVER, I have provided more than enough help for all of the emergency services in the area that I cover. I am repeatedly approached by local fire to volunteer because of the help I have provided. I am working with the cops at least once a week. I know how this stuff works, I live and breath it all the time.

Yes, I would want the person to assist the cops if it were my family, as I would do the same for others. But for people to be flabbergasted by the fact that he is questioning what happened, and asking about his rights is nuts.
 08/09/2009 11:56:00 PM · #22
Originally posted by amathiasphoto:
Geoffb, I NEVER said anything bad about the police. I never said that he shouldnt have cooperated, but I am stating that he has the rights to those cards, and that they never had the right to take them unless he, without any pressure, was willing to give them up. Those are his RIGHTS, and it sickens me that anybody would get frusterated with him doubting or questioning his actions from the evening.

I am a photojournalist. If I turn over a card to the police any time they ask for them, I guarantee there would be days my boss would not a happy camper. HOWEVER, I have provided more than enough help for all of the emergency services in the area that I cover. I am repeatedly approached by local fire to volunteer because of the help I have provided. I am working with the cops at least once a week. I know how this stuff works, I live and breath it all the time.

Yes, I would want the person to assist the cops if it were my family, as I would do the same for others. But for people to be flabbergasted by the fact that he is questioning what happened, and asking about his rights is nuts.

You're right, you did mention that near the end of your post. Fair enough. :)
 08/09/2009 11:59:08 PM · #23
I wouldn't be surprised to see the video on TMZ or a local TV station soon. :(
08/10/2009 12:03:40 AM · #24
Originally posted by Tom:
LAPD Confiscated My Two 8-Gig Cards.. What to do?!

you can....
1) make a big fuss and hoo-ha about it, contact the press, contact your lawyers, turn yourself into a citizen's rights activist and make a campaign, gain support for the movement against "police misuse of power" or some crap like
or
2) sleep well at night knowing you assisted in an investigation to get justice for that poor "guardian angel" bloke
(i think option 1. can be more satisfying for some)

p/s: u gonna get your card back someday, right?
 08/10/2009 12:16:10 AM · #25
Just to throw this out here. On this site we only accept pristine untouched photos directly from the card as originals. Take that to the next level and the only sure fire way of knowing that they can definitively prove that the originals were untampered with is to have the the actual card in their possession. If we require the original files for a virtual ribbon why is it such a strange concept to require the actual physical card for a criminal investigation?

As for declining to turn it over at all? They can subpoena you for the card. And then you lose it. Or in this case they have just cause for asking for it. And you lose it.

No you did the right thing. It sucks but the right thing isn't always the thing that's in our own best interests. Creating a hassle for the police would just make things harder.
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 03/11/2025 02:58:14 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 03/11/2025 02:58:15 PM EDT.