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 03/15/2010 08:17:17 PM · #76
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by tnun:
clive_patric_nolan speaks to the distinction between conscious intent and the independent existence of the artifact. In its way it is a terrifying distinction.

I should not keep trying to get Jason's goat. Sorry.


Hehe. You trying to get me in trouble? :) I definitely hear clive and where he's coming from, but would say I come from a very different school of thought. To me the artist is in full control of their message. If the viewer didn't get the message you intended, then at best it's serendipity and at worst it indicates you failed. I would be especially distraught if someone took away a message antithetical to who I am. I wouldn't be happy about that at all even if it evoked a strong positive response.


I rest my case.
 03/15/2010 08:23:22 PM · #77
Not all art has a message. Some art just is.
In theatre we had a saying "You want to send a message, use Western Union."
 03/15/2010 08:23:32 PM · #78
Firstly, what a great challenge and a wonderful extra effort by the jury.

Secondly, THANKS for the honorable mention, in most honorable company.

I think I will sidestep the "fine" art questions altogether, but as to intent I would comment that I didn't shoot this image specifically for the challenge: I've been enjoying the freedom from meticulous controls afforded by my iphone and some simple editing apps on it. I am having a lot of fun using it to shoot things that I see, as I see them, when they strike me. I decided to "go hunting" with it, but to stay in the house and find forms and shapes and lines, detail sorts of shots/compositions.

So I had this shot fully edited on my iphone already when I logged in here and saw the fine art challenge.

So as far as intent goes, my intentions were to shoot and process just for myself, explore my feelings about simple, soft, grainy images--which often I work hard NOT to produce--and had no intentions to enter it, much less in a "fine" art contest.

I broke a personal record for lowest ever challenge score, highest number of 1 votes, and highest post challenge honor.

I was so jazzed to get a PM from Bear_Music this morning--really turned my day around.

Thanks again, and congratulations to all concerned. And also to those not-concerned ;~)
 03/15/2010 08:41:05 PM · #79
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If the viewer didn't get the message you intended, then at best it's serendipity and at worst it indicates you failed. I would be especially distraught if someone took away a message antithetical to who I am. I wouldn't be happy about that at all even if it evoked a strong positive response.

So.....you're saying that you've never had someone point out an interesting, and valuable facet of one of your images that you didn't see yourself?


Starting to sound like a desire to control the viewer...let the image be and allow the viewer to get what is needed at that moment. It may be different the next day, and it may, or may not, walk the line of the artist. I think Clive's (few posts back) approach is admirable.
 03/15/2010 08:52:19 PM · #80
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If the viewer didn't get the message you intended, then at best it's serendipity and at worst it indicates you failed. I would be especially distraught if someone took away a message antithetical to who I am. I wouldn't be happy about that at all even if it evoked a strong positive response.

So.....you're saying that you've never had someone point out an interesting, and valuable facet of one of your images that you didn't see yourself?


Starting to sound like a desire to control the viewer...let the image be and allow the viewer to get what is needed at that moment. It may be different the next day, and it may, or may not, walk the line of the artist. I think Clive's (few posts back) approach is admirable.


Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying one view is right and the other is wrong, just that there is more than one approach. I also fully agree with pixelpig that not every photo needs a message. Many photos excel based on aesthetics of light, texture, color, geometry, or the subject.
 03/15/2010 08:59:28 PM · #81
'What??!!! What do you mean it's all about my Mother?? I never mentioned my Mother!!'

;)
 03/15/2010 09:10:37 PM · #82
This was the toughest challenge I've entered in the years I've been here. I have no clue of what art is. I stepped out of my pretty little comfort zone in a major way and struggled with keeping my image in the challenge. I've had my share of low scores so that wasn't my issue. If we have another one of these I'll feel a lot better about entering.
This is a first for me. Since I don't feel I have a artistic bone in my body. I've never been mentioned in any of the Posthumous award threads. To get a Honorable Mention from the judges and Posthumous has made my year!

A Huge Thank You to the judges for taking the time to do something like this...... Awesome.......Again Thanks......ace
 03/15/2010 09:13:42 PM · #83
There is NO WAY I would have volunteered to judge this challenge.

And... since I finished in the Bottom Twenty... I'm sure you're all glad that I didn't. LOL!

Congrats to all of the weirdos who know how to photograph Fine Art.

(JUST KIDDING!!!!)
 03/15/2010 09:20:36 PM · #84
That's it?
 03/15/2010 09:33:38 PM · #85
Maybe we should coin the phrase Aesthic Photography? to avoid confusion? or create more confusion? Actually, confusion and cognitive dissonance can lead to Art. If it leads anywhere.

[eta]
It might be interesting to do a challenge to use a piece of utilitarian art (as opposed to fine art) in a photograph. Examples of utilitarian art: a cup, a wine bottle, an umbrella, a car, a building, a shoe...no landscapes.

Message edited by author 2010-03-15 21:47:03.
 03/15/2010 09:34:55 PM · #86
For and foremost a huge thank you to the jury for judging this contest, and an even bigger thank you for honoring many photos which were underrated...

Secondly, Congrats to the winners and to the honorable mentions... Excellent job of broadening our minds!!!

The idea of a jury worked really well for this contest and I would like to see it more often for the subjective challenges... Bravo to all those involved and thanks again for all your efforts!!!
 03/15/2010 09:36:15 PM · #87
Congrats to all of the winners! I'm flattered to have my entry included in the Honorable Mention group. Thanks!

Kudo's to all members of the jury panel for the effort you put into this.
03/15/2010 09:37:47 PM · #88
Originally posted by CEJ:
That's it?


What? You didn't get invited to the party? Um... i've said too much. (embarrassingly edges backwards into the hall, trying to close the door before the sound of Bear Music dancing on the table to Lady Gaga, flagon in hand, and posthumous shouting for more tequila, gets out)
 03/15/2010 09:44:08 PM · #89
Originally posted by pixelpig:
or create more confusion? Actually, confusion and cognitive dissonance can lead to Art. If it leads anywhere.


Oh, yes indeed. To paraphrase the Joker: We should strive to become agents of chaos. Batman's rubbish.
 03/15/2010 09:46:12 PM · #90
Agents of Chaos would make a good name for a team. Or a band.
 03/15/2010 09:50:01 PM · #91
Bear Music And The Agents Of Chaos.

Great name!
 03/15/2010 09:50:48 PM · #92
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Agents of Chaos would make a good name for a team. Or a band.

Kinda sounds too organized....how 'bout....

Elements of Chaos
 03/15/2010 09:51:28 PM · #93
that describes the jury, I think...Bear Music And The Agents Of Chaos. They post-process in a custom-built computer powered by an Improbability Drive.

Message edited by author 2010-03-15 21:53:39.
 03/15/2010 09:52:40 PM · #94
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
... Could one learn to be an accomplished artist in this genre or is it all instinctual? Do people mainly stumble upon a picture they like then add meaning to later (especially abstract stuff) or do people mainly set out to capture some quality before they start shooting? If so, how do they accomplish this? Is fine art like fine wine? While there are varied opinions, experts will generally agree on the same vintages as being exceptional compared to others?...


ΓΆ€ΒΆ Yes, one could, if one were sufficiently interested and motivated.
ΓΆ€ΒΆ I'm sure there's plenty of stumbling going on, if road conditions are an indication. The manner of walking could be improved by paying attention to traffic and potholes, while remaining aware of the weather, lay of the land and enemy positions.
ΓΆ€ΒΆ Meaning, according to some Edward Dahlberg, is that which exists through itself. It is not something that can be added, as an afterthought or like varnish.
ΓΆ€ΒΆ Quality, as an idea, is not practical enough to be useful. Quality, as in "quality of light" or when applied to, say, the craftsmanship that has gone into Shaker furniture, has to be recognized and sought out, before it can be found. To capture it, if that's all it prompts us to do, it would take a camera, some basic photographic skills and the good sense not to make it into something it is not. On the other hand, the quality of an experience may also inspire a photograph of a tupperware container or a woman's thigh. Life, like art, has its paradoxical ways.

ΓΆ€ΒΆ I think the best way to accomplish something is to simply do it. The best way to do something simply, is to recognize the process as a natural way of being, instead of looking at it as if it were a technique or a method to achieve an end.
ΓΆ€ΒΆ I don't think so. The stuff they serve at gallery openings and vernissages tastes like Chianti. Art "experts" can be artists, an unemployed masseuse or an illiterate fisherman in Bimini, although neither one of them, I'm sure, would appreciate the attribute. I would avoid so-called "experts" like a plague. The best counsel for the course, IMO, is to be had via one's own investigation, survey and the invaluable experience of adversity.
 03/15/2010 09:55:44 PM · #95
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Bear Music And The Agents Of Chaos.

Great name!


And I am happy to report that for someone who has been deaf almost all his life, Bear Music sings pretty well!! :-)
 03/15/2010 09:56:12 PM · #96
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Examples of utilitarian art: a cup, a wine bottle, an umbrella, a car, a building, a shoe...no landscapes.


Food Photography, Fashion Photography, Product Photography, Hallmark Cards...
 03/15/2010 10:00:57 PM · #97
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Examples of utilitarian art: a cup, a wine bottle, an umbrella, a car, a building, a shoe...no landscapes.


Food Photography, Fashion Photography, Product Photography, Hallmark Cards...


Ouch.

I just entered the current member challenge.
 03/15/2010 10:05:46 PM · #98
I just found this post that makes many beautiful points to the discussion here...

Originally posted by wheeledd:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Umm....isn't the onus on you, the artist to convey your message such that it can be understood?


No. Some artists create works to satisfy their own inner needs. Whether it conveys a message to someone else is irrelevant. But if you are this kind of artist, please don't complain that no one buys your work (or gives it high votes on DPC).

More to the point, a lot of art appeals to a limited audience. There are people who think their kids can do drawings that are just as good as Picasso's. They don't have the background to appreciate what Picasso achieved. This is especially true of much contemporary art; it really requires some prior knowledge to understand and appreciate.

If an artist wants an audience, then yes, the onus is on them to convey a message to some audience. But they have no responsibility to make their message understandable to everyone.


Bam!

03/15/2010 10:07:39 PM · #99
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I just found this post that makes many beautiful points to the discussion here...

Originally posted by wheeledd:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Umm....isn't the onus on you, the artist to convey your message such that it can be understood?


No. Some artists create works to satisfy their own inner needs. Whether it conveys a message to someone else is irrelevant. But if you are this kind of artist, please don't complain that no one buys your work (or gives it high votes on DPC).

More to the point, a lot of art appeals to a limited audience. There are people who think their kids can do drawings that are just as good as Picasso's. They don't have the background to appreciate what Picasso achieved. This is especially true of much contemporary art; it really requires some prior knowledge to understand and appreciate.

If an artist wants an audience, then yes, the onus is on them to convey a message to some audience. But they have no responsibility to make their message understandable to everyone.


Bam!


Double Bam! With a wham!

R.
 03/15/2010 10:13:26 PM · #100
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by pawdrix:
I just found this post that makes many beautiful points to the discussion here...

Originally posted by wheeledd:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Umm....isn't the onus on you, the artist to convey your message such that it can be understood?


No. Some artists create works to satisfy their own inner needs. Whether it conveys a message to someone else is irrelevant. But if you are this kind of artist, please don't complain that no one buys your work (or gives it high votes on DPC).

More to the point, a lot of art appeals to a limited audience. There are people who think their kids can do drawings that are just as good as Picasso's. They don't have the background to appreciate what Picasso achieved. This is especially true of much contemporary art; it really requires some prior knowledge to understand and appreciate.

If an artist wants an audience, then yes, the onus is on them to convey a message to some audience. But they have no responsibility to make their message understandable to everyone.


Bam!


Double Bam! With a wham!

R.


Approved.

Message edited by author 2010-03-15 22:14:01.
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