Little help with my ZEN entry - DPChallenge Forums

04/28/2010 06:02:16 PM · #1

I only got 2 comments on this picture and neither one was very helpful. All I want to know is what I can do to make this a better picture. Or what I can do in general to take better pictures. This picture finished around 20% in the voting and I just want to know why. Any help would be great. Thanks!

PixelKing

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6G

04/28/2010 06:09:50 PM · #2

Hey Kevin,

Im by NO means an expert. so please take what I have to say with a grain of salt....

Its not a bad image, but these might be the changes I would make,

A little deeper DOF, the flame is in focus, but the rest of the candle and leaves are not. Might be nice to have a little more detail in these areas.

You could also have a little more background maybe? Don't fill the frame so much, I love blank spaces: they really draw the viewer into the photo. following that,m make sure the backround is really black.

Thats all I have.

Message edited by author 2010-04-28 18:10:30.

yakatme

Lytro Illum Light Field Digital

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

04/28/2010 06:16:35 PM · #3

In response to your request for comments on this picture and what you can do to improve on your photography in general, I offer the following: Getting good and correctly exposed of any shot that includes a bright light source such as a flame is very difficult, but you have managed to get pretty good exposure here. My immediate reaction to this image, however, is that I want to see more. I think that this is too close of a shot and would have been better not cropped so closely and maybe it would have been better taken at a lower angle. The top leaf exiting the frame bothers me and it would frame the image nicely if the whole leaf was included. The container is there and at the same time it isnâ��t which makes me wonder, again, what exactly it is. As the picture stands right now it is boring (sorry for being blunt).

As for your other request, how to improve your photography: Youâ��re doing it. Keep entering challenges and ask for critiques if you donâ��t get them. Keep in mind, though, that this challenge had a ton of entries due to the DPL. There werenâ��t enough comments to go around and the lower scoring shots donâ��t usually get comments that help much if they get any comments at all.

Peruse other images and see what did well and what scored poorly (start with the top and bottom 20%) and read the comments to understand why they placed where they did. Read up on the principles of composition and exposure and learn them well. Also, understand and learn how to use your camera in manual mode, or at least aperture and shutter priority.

I could keep going but Iâ��ll let you get started here and let someone else pick up where I left off. Good luck and keep entering challenges.

edit to add: Oh, and don't forget to mark "Helpful" the comments that you find are helpful. A lot of people here like their statistics to show that the comments that they make are informative and are less likely to leave you a comment if you don't have any marked helpful.

Message edited by author 2010-04-28 18:21:05.

bohemka

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

04/28/2010 06:21:46 PM · #4

I agree with everything PixelKing just said. The Zen photos that had open space (to contemplate?) seemed to do well. That aside, something like a flame as the subject is going to do weird things to the photo. Blown out for one, and if you try to control it the rest of the photo is compromised. Like PK said, step back a bit, give the peaceful scene some distance. It's a bit in your face. Again, just a bit of help from someone who probably shouldn't be giving it, as my Zen photo sucked samurais.

Edit: yakatme just spoke the truth there as well.

Message edited by author 2010-04-28 18:24:23.

glockguy

Canon EOS-7D

Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM for Canon

04/28/2010 06:24:53 PM · #5

As said before, I should probably jump on my samurai sword based on my own entry but....

I just found that the picture was too "in your face", with no context??? if that makes sense?

perhaps stepping back and from a lower angle (as mentioned) would increase the interest and draw your eye across the picture better.

Also, and this is PURELY me.... I find the little bubbles to be distracting and "un Zen".....I used cooking oil and let it sit for a good 30 mins in my shot. It gives the appearance of water, but no bubbles! Just a thought

I tried taking a pic of a candle and gave up after about 30 tries because it was so blown out. Good on you for getting it clear!

Just my .02, keep up the good work! I appreciate threads like these because they certainly help me too!

Message edited by author 2010-04-28 18:29:53.

bohemka

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

04/28/2010 06:54:08 PM · #6

glockguy, I actually used the exact words in your face with my comment below. Great minds drink alike.

In other news, I think the Zen challenge turned out some great stuff. My shot was a 5. I knew that going in. But I wish I got a comment from just one of the 11 folks that gave me a 2. Or one of the 19 that gave me a 3. Maybe one of them did, but she's young and missed the point. Still.

I'm not complaining about my score. I deserved a 5. I just thought I'd get there on a more horizontal route.

No attempt at a hijack here, Kevin. Just commenting on the challenge in general.

Message edited by author 2010-04-28 18:55:03.

PixelKing

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6G

04/28/2010 07:11:38 PM · #7

Originally posted by bohemka:

haha, hey Scott I gave you a five,

and again just my humble opinion as to why...

I love the selective desat, however the remaining colour just didn't do much for me. :") If the colours "popped" a bit more, it would hold the attention of the viewer a bit more?

I also would have gone further with the desat, to include the path and sky as well. If the tree is what you want the viewers focus on, then make it totally obvious.

There also looks like some weeds on the fringe of the path that might have been better in grey as wellâ�¦â�¦

And Al, I gave you a 3....Im so Sorry!! I don;t know why? looking at it again i would gladly give a 6 or 7. the only change Id make would be maybe getting rid of the slight detail left by the tile counter in the midground? Otherwise its a nie shot, sorry for the low vote!!

But only my very humble opinion.

Message edited by author 2010-04-28 19:16:01.

bohemka

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

04/28/2010 07:25:09 PM · #8

Thanks a lot, Jeff! That's what I expected, and those are some of the reasons why.

I was going for some sort of focus and this was colored and that wasn't and vice versa and then I got tired and to hell with it. To be honest it's been a blast and a true crash course. I'm just getting into processing, so it's been fun. I just wish some 2 voters had made a peep. I'd imagine they'd echo your comments, but louder.

Thanks again. All the best.

Edit: And I just commented on Al's pic. I think something as silly as a name change would have helped him. "Rule of Thirds" isn't going to grab many accomplished photographers during a zen challenge. Just my humble thoughts as well, but there they are.

Message edited by author 2010-04-28 19:28:42.

Lytro Illum Light Field Digital

04/28/2010 09:17:09 PM · #9

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions. I know that there are things that I need to work on in my photography and I will take a lot of what you guys tell me and use it and think about it when I do take pictures. Sometimes I don't really think when I take a picture and I just take it. Sometimes I do put some thought into a picture and hope that it turns out the way I had planned. I guess I will just have to keep taking pictures, and keep entering challenges, and keep seeking advice from everyone I can. I am sure that I will never be the best photographer in the world, but I will aim to make it there.

I will be posting more pictures once the challenges are over for more comments. I have entered 6 photos so far and so far have a total of 27 comments and not all of them are very helpful. I really want to hear from the people that give 1's, 2's, and 3's cause I want to know what didn't work for them, but I never do. Thanks again everyone and happy picture taking!

yakatme

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

04/29/2010 07:39:16 PM · #10

I wonder if you even read this or if your standards for what is helpful to you is ridiculously high:

Originally posted by yakatme:

In response to your request for comments on this picture and what you can do to improve on your photography in general I offer the following................

- - - - snipped some content - - - -

edit to add: Oh, and don't forget to mark "Helpful" the comments that you find are helpful. A lot of people here like their statistics to show that the comments that they make are informative and are less likely to leave you a comment if you don't have any marked helpful.

Even after adding to my post the friendly reminder (above) to acknowledge those who take the time to leave helpful comments, you not only choose not to check the comments that I believe are clearly helpful but you still ask for more comments (below). As I said in my opening line, maybe your standards are super high.

Originally posted by KevinSLR:

I will be posting more pictures once the challenges are over for more comments. I have entered 6 photos so far and so far have a total of 27 comments and not all of them are very helpful.

Looking for more comments?!?!? What? Not from me again.

It's not that I care much about my statistics like I mentioned to you that some people do. As a matter of fact, my stats don't show many comments from me at all. I happen to contribute a lot more in the forums where my assistance is not kept as a stastic. It's just that the fact that I did leave a comment on your image this time, reminded you to mark all helpful comments as such, you acknowledged something about some comments not being helpful, and it all adds up to feeling like the time that I took to help someone along is disregarded and not appreciated.

It appears that I have already wasted enough of my time on you because nothing I took the time to say seems to be of use to you.

Message edited by author 2010-04-29 19:42:14.

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

04/29/2010 08:18:33 PM · #11

Originally posted by yakatme:

I wonder if you even read this or if your standards for what is helpful to you is ridiculously high:

Originally posted by yakatme:
In response to your request for comments on this picture and what you can do to improve on your photography in general I offer the following................

- - - - snipped some content - - - -

edit to add: Oh, and don't forget to mark "Helpful" the comments that you find are helpful. A lot of people here like their statistics to show that the comments that they make are informative and are less likely to leave you a comment if you don't have any marked helpful.

Even after adding to my post the friendly reminder (above) to acknowledge those who take the time to leave helpful comments, you not only choose not to check the comments that I believe are clearly helpful but you still ask for more comments (below). As I said in my opening line, maybe your standards are super high.

Originally posted by KevinSLR:
I will be posting more pictures once the challenges are over for more comments. I have entered 6 photos so far and so far have a total of 27 comments and not all of them are very helpful.

Looking for more comments?!?!? What? Not from me again.

It's not that I care much about my statistics like I mentioned to you that some people do. As a matter of fact, my stats don't show many comments from me at all. I happen to contribute a lot more in the forums where my assistance is not kept as a stastic. It's just that the fact that I did leave a comment on your image this time, reminded you to mark all helpful comments as such, you acknowledged something about some comments not being helpful, and it all adds up to feeling like the time that I took to help someone along is disregarded and not appreciated.

It appears that I have already wasted enough of my time on you because nothing I took the time to say seems to be of use to you.

Please allow me to give it a shot..

KevinSLR, it is considered polite here to Mark All Reasonable Comments as Helpful , the only comments that should remain unmarked are the absolutely useless, or terribly off-track comments. Remember, just because it didn't make you feel fuzzy and warm didn't mean it wasn't useful.

Seriously, people will start to ignore your requests for comments and help if you do not reciprocate and show appreciation by marking the comments as helpful. And as I can see that you have received 28 comments and only 10 are marked as helpful, you might want to consider going back and marking any that are not absolutely useless.

Cheers.

Message edited by author 2010-04-29 20:19:42.

PixelKing

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6G

04/29/2010 10:01:04 PM · #12

I think even getting a "Nice Pic" is helpfull.

At least I know I pleased somebody.....LOL

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

04/29/2010 10:23:16 PM · #13

All that I am trying to do is become better at taking pictures. Since I don't know any professional photographers personally, I just thought that I could use a forum like this one to get a little insight into my photos. I am also new to the site and didn't know about the "helpful comment" button until it was brought up to me. I also was unaware that I needed to check every comment that I receive as helpful. Since last night, I have made an effort to make comments, say that comments were helpful, and rate more pictures. If you don't want to help someone become a better photographer, that's fine. You won't know what pictures are mine in the challenges though, so I guess that means you aren't going to comment during the voting period at all. Do what you want, I was just looking for help. I'm sorry that it sparked such a huge thing and got so many people upset.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

04/29/2010 10:32:24 PM · #14

Originally posted by KevinSLR:

Kevin, seriously, what's the problem? An experienced member made a valid observation, and you're going all defensive on it. That's not the issue. The issue is, it's a really good idea to read your comments and mark them. It's one of the few ways we have of validating feedback in this community. That's all he means.

R.

ltlmschrisss

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED VR

04/29/2010 11:03:04 PM · #15

Can you post the original? I know when I was active before sometimes that was a good way to get feedback on processing points. Someone would post the original and a few members would edit and tell you their steps.

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED VR

04/29/2010 11:18:40 PM · #16

Here is the original. I never thought to post this. Let me know what you think and/or would do.

ltlmschrisss

Nikon D850

04/30/2010 12:15:38 AM · #17

Original

Entry

My Edit

Editing steps:

Crop right, bottom, and top. I did the top because the flower had some wilting on it which doesn't make for a pretty lilly.
Bumped brightness to +23, Contrast to +100 this darkened the background but left the subject mostly intact.
Dodged highlights and mid tones on the flowers at 17%
I wanted to get rid of the yellow color cast from the candle in the top flower so i selected the top flower and went to selective color under Yellow, I increased the Cyan, decreased magenta and yellow, and increased black. This made it look more green overall.
I wanted to get rid of the same cast from the flame on the bottom flower so I selected that flower and used replace color to bring more white in the flower. I changed hue, lightness, and desaturated a bit
For spot clean up I cloned out the red spot in the glass from the flame, there was also a tiny black spec in the reflection of the flame. I burned out the two glass lines that were down at the bottom right and the leftover background on the left. Last I used a sharpen tool around the flowers a little bit.

I am not the best by any means but if it had been my shot this is what I would have done with it. I thought of cropping tight like you did on the left but for "zen" I liked the negative space a little more. Just my two cents :)

Message edited by author 2010-04-30 00:28:50.