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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> CANADIANS - fight the HST!
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06/08/2010 09:41:28 AM · #1
Hey all fellow Canuckistanians,

There is a Facebook petition circulating to protest the implementation of the HST. Please sign it!

*off to find url*...

//www.hstpetition.com/petition/sign.php

Message edited by scalvert - Fixed link.
06/08/2010 09:44:16 AM · #2
Yeah, fight the High Speed Turtle! It's evil and unnatural.
06/08/2010 09:48:21 AM · #3
Here in Newfoundland we've had HST for years.......that petition looks like it's aimed at people from Ontario.
06/08/2010 10:01:20 AM · #4
Meh... we've had the HST for years out here in New Brunswick. Welcome to the gang :)
06/08/2010 10:03:02 AM · #5
What's the difference between PST + GST and HST? The tax amount is the same.
06/08/2010 10:06:41 AM · #6
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

What's the difference between PST + GST and HST? The tax amount is the same.

The tax amount is the same, but there are lots items that are exempt from PST (ie gas, heating fuel, etc...). So those items will go up.
06/08/2010 10:09:24 AM · #7
Originally posted by wolf:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

What's the difference between PST + GST and HST? The tax amount is the same.

The tax amount is the same, but there are lots items that are exempt from PST (ie gas, heating fuel, etc...). So those items will go up.


Unless there's some algorithm applied so that the tax on those items is at a reduced rate. Just like there were 0 rated and exempt items for the GST.
06/08/2010 10:10:49 AM · #8
But 'harmonized' is such a nice word. 'Harmony' ... 'living in harmony'... 'it was harmonious' etc...
06/08/2010 10:15:28 AM · #9
Originally posted by JH:

But 'harmonized' is such a nice word. 'Harmony' ... 'living in harmony'... 'it was harmonious' etc...


They should just call it the BST... the Buddha Sales Tax :)
06/08/2010 10:17:51 AM · #10
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by wolf:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

What's the difference between PST + GST and HST? The tax amount is the same.

The tax amount is the same, but there are lots items that are exempt from PST (ie gas, heating fuel, etc...). So those items will go up.


Unless there's some algorithm applied so that the tax on those items is at a reduced rate. Just like there were 0 rated and exempt items for the GST.


There isn't. One of the main fights is because many previously untaxed items will now fall under the HST at the full HST tax.

As others have said, though, some provinces have had it for years. This is going to happen, and nothing's stopping it, especially useless petitions.
06/08/2010 10:26:39 AM · #11
Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Originally posted by wolf:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

What's the difference between PST + GST and HST? The tax amount is the same.

The tax amount is the same, but there are lots items that are exempt from PST (ie gas, heating fuel, etc...). So those items will go up.


Unless there's some algorithm applied so that the tax on those items is at a reduced rate. Just like there were 0 rated and exempt items for the GST.


There isn't. One of the main fights is because many previously untaxed items will now fall under the HST at the full HST tax.

As others have said, though, some provinces have had it for years. This is going to happen, and nothing's stopping it, especially useless petitions.


What about rebate programs for low income tax payers? Are there any?
06/08/2010 11:22:59 AM · #12
There is the usual sales tax credit at year end for low income earners, which will be the same as a combined PST/GST credit. Also, personal income tax in Ontario is being reduced. The reduction to business tax and red tape engendered in GST and PST is going to trickle down to consumers in a big way. There's a lot of bitching, but, as usual, little insight or understanding.
06/08/2010 11:26:02 AM · #13
This is the same old fuss that went about when the GST first came in. The GST (visible tax) replaced a hidden tax that most people didn't know existed.
06/08/2010 12:33:42 PM · #14
We pay 25% sales tax in Norway so you still have a long way to go. I miss Canada and the times we only paid PST though and remember well when GST was introduced.
You can try to fight it. But I wouldn't waste my energy...
06/08/2010 02:00:21 PM · #15
Originally posted by TrollMan:

We pay 25% sales tax in Norway so you still have a long way to go. I miss Canada and the times we only paid PST though and remember well when GST was introduced.
You can try to fight it. But I wouldn't waste my energy...


Actually, you were paying PST and a hidden form of the GST. The GST replaced the Manufacturer's Sales Tax which was added at the wholesale level so it was hidden.
06/08/2010 02:12:06 PM · #16
Originally posted by cpanaioti:

This is the same old fuss that went about when the GST first came in. The GST (visible tax) replaced a hidden tax that most people didn't know existed.


Books, clothes, shoes, services and a slew of other items were not taxed before the GST came into effect. Now they all are.

Snaffles, not to take anything away from the petition but several provinces already have a harmonized sales tax. Ontario needs to catch up to the rest of Canada, in other words, do your part, as all Canadians do. No petition, no matter how many signatures, will stop the tax monster from taking your money.

I wonder if the fact you Ontario folk pay less income tax is the reason why your province needs cash in a big way?

Trollman,

25% tax in Norway. What's your income tax rate? Probably a lot lower than ours.
06/08/2010 02:28:41 PM · #17
Originally posted by Jac:

[quote=cpanaioti]
25% tax in Norway. What's your income tax rate? Probably a lot lower than ours.

I pay just under 50% here in Norway. We also get taxed progressively higher as income increases. I seem to recall paying 44% in Canada the last full year I lived there (2004) based on CDN 140K/yr.
But we can deduct from our income 28% of absolutely all interest on loans and credit cards. So, there more debt, the less tax... Works particularly well on a fresh mortgage since most of the payment is interest.
06/08/2010 02:39:14 PM · #18
Originally posted by TrollMan:

Originally posted by Jac:

[quote=cpanaioti]
25% tax in Norway. What's your income tax rate? Probably a lot lower than ours.

I pay just under 50% here in Norway. We also get taxed progressively higher as income increases. I seem to recall paying 44% in Canada the last full year I lived there (2004) based on CDN 140K/yr.
But we can deduct from our income 28% of absolutely all interest on loans and credit cards. So, there more debt, the less tax... Works particularly well on a fresh mortgage since most of the payment is interest.


Surprised to see that. Love the tax deductions for interest, quite progressive thinking on the government's part but I have a question. Have people acquired more debt because of it?
06/08/2010 02:52:45 PM · #19
Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by TrollMan:

Originally posted by Jac:

[quote=cpanaioti]
25% tax in Norway. What's your income tax rate? Probably a lot lower than ours.

I pay just under 50% here in Norway. We also get taxed progressively higher as income increases. I seem to recall paying 44% in Canada the last full year I lived there (2004) based on CDN 140K/yr.
But we can deduct from our income 28% of absolutely all interest on loans and credit cards. So, there more debt, the less tax... Works particularly well on a fresh mortgage since most of the payment is interest.


Surprised to see that. Love the tax deductions for interest, quite progressive thinking on the government's part but I have a question. Have people acquired more debt because of it?

I believe so. I may be slightly off but seem to have read that the average Norwegian household owe approx. 4 times their annual income in various debts.
When we consider loans, we calculate the impact and not the actual payments and our monthly tax deductions can be adjusted accordingly. We also get to deduct approx 6300 CDN for daycare (2 kids) and about 11000 CDN per person as a standard personal deduction (I recall having the same in Canada but don't remember the amount).
06/08/2010 03:16:47 PM · #20
Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

This is the same old fuss that went about when the GST first came in. The GST (visible tax) replaced a hidden tax that most people didn't know existed.


Books, clothes, shoes, services and a slew of other items were not taxed before the GST came into effect. Now they all are.

Snaffles, not to take anything away from the petition but several provinces already have a harmonized sales tax. Ontario needs to catch up to the rest of Canada, in other words, do your part, as all Canadians do. No petition, no matter how many signatures, will stop the tax monster from taking your money.

I wonder if the fact you Ontario folk pay less income tax is the reason why your province needs cash in a big way?

Trollman,

25% tax in Norway. What's your income tax rate? Probably a lot lower than ours.


Books and clothes were manufactured, right? There was a hidden tax that the manufacturers were paying and passing on in the cost of goods that was removed when the GST was implemented.

ETA a little bit of history:

In 1989, the Progressive Conservative government of Prime Minister Brian Mulroney proposed the creation of a national sales tax of 9%. At this time, every province in Canada except Alberta already had its own provincial sales tax imposed at the retail level.

The purpose of the national sales tax was to replace the 13.5% Manufacturers' Sales Tax (MST) that the federal government imposed at the wholesale level on manufactured goods. Manufacturers were concerned that the tax hurt their international competitiveness. The GST also replaced the Federal Telecommunications Tax of 11%.

excerpt from: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_and_Services_Tax_%28Canada%29

Message edited by author 2010-06-08 15:30:19.
06/08/2010 04:58:57 PM · #21
Just a thought, but perhaps the title of the thread should be "ONTARIANS - fight the HST"
Seems to me, as usual, Ontarians feel like their issues are felt equally by all Canadians. In any event, good luck with your petition, it's a shot in the dark, but hey.......
ETA: I was just checking my facts before I posted this....

Ontario, somehow, has always been a "have" province in Canada...until this year. This year, Ontario will receive in excess of $900M in Equalization Payments from other provinces (read: Alberta primarily). So, perhaps the HST isn't a bad thing. It will allow your provincial government to hopefully generate some more revenue and get back to the "have" status. Just my $.02.

Message edited by author 2010-06-08 17:27:21.
06/08/2010 05:21:29 PM · #22
Originally posted by glockguy:

Just a thought, but perhaps the title of the thread should be "ONTARIANS - fight the HST"
Seems to me, as usual, Ontarians feel like their issues are felt equally by all Canadians. In any event, good luck with your petition, it's a shot in the dark, but hey.......
ETA: I was just checking my facts before I posted this....

Ontario, somehow, has always been a "have" province in Canada...until this year. This year, Ontario will receive in excess of $347M in Equalization Payments from other provinces (read: Alberta primarily). So, perhaps the HST isn't a bad thing. It will allow your provincial government to hopefully generate some more revenue and get back to the "have" status. Just my $.02.


British Columbia is also fighting the HST, which is due here as well.
06/08/2010 05:32:07 PM · #23
Originally posted by K10DGuy:



British Columbia is also fighting the HST, which is due here as well.


Where's your petition? ;)

06/08/2010 05:34:06 PM · #24
Originally posted by Jac:

Originally posted by TrollMan:

Originally posted by Jac:

[quote=cpanaioti]
25% tax in Norway. What's your income tax rate? Probably a lot lower than ours.

I pay just under 50% here in Norway. We also get taxed progressively higher as income increases. I seem to recall paying 44% in Canada the last full year I lived there (2004) based on CDN 140K/yr.
But we can deduct from our income 28% of absolutely all interest on loans and credit cards. So, there more debt, the less tax... Works particularly well on a fresh mortgage since most of the payment is interest.


Surprised to see that. Love the tax deductions for interest, quite progressive thinking on the government's part but I have a question. Have people acquired more debt because of it?


Only problem I see with having interest tax deductible, is that it rewards people who over borrow, or rely on credit. I prefer a system that rewards saving over borrowing. The tax free savings acount that was introduced is awesome.
06/08/2010 05:43:03 PM · #25
Originally posted by glockguy:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:



British Columbia is also fighting the HST, which is due here as well.


Where's your petition? ;)


We know when we're licked. There is no way of getting out of having the HST. Its already being charged on some things out here. :(
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