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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> The Phone Books Are Here!
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03/17/2011 11:17:02 AM · #1
OK, so they aren't here, but they are in the design process. Here's what's going on:

I was contacted asking if my powwow photos were copyrighted because the phone company wanted to use one of my photos on the cover of their phone book. I told her they were but I'd be happy for them to use them if they would let me know which one they wanted to use because I needed to get a model release from the dancer.
She said that was OK because they couldn't use anything that was copyrighted.
I told her they could if they were granted license from the owner which I would be happy to do, but again I told her I need to know which one so that I could obtain a model release.
She asked if I really needed to do that because she (she is the coordinator of the powwow in question) always had her dancers sign a photography relase when they signed up to dance. (Which I already knew cause my kids and I dance at the powwow.) I told her I wanted to get a model release because most event releases only cover using photographs to promote that particular event otherwise anyone could use those photos commerically which might not sit to well with the dancers, although I wasn't sure exactly how her release was written. (Ok, so that shows we don't pay attention when signing up at the powwows. I'm pretty sure hers basically says people are gonna be taking your picture and you gotta sign here that it's ok if you want to dance.)

I haven't heard back from her. It would be great for me to get my work out there and it would be a wonderful promotion for her powwow. (And I'd love to help her in that respect as she is a very dear family friend.) I'd really like for them to use my photo but I'm afraid they are stalled over the whole copyright thing.
So, basically have I given her the correct information?
What else can I do?

Message edited by author 2011-03-17 11:17:18.
03/17/2011 11:21:20 AM · #2
Originally posted by Luci11e:


So, basically have I given her the correct information?
What else can I do?


If you have a signed model release, you can grant them permission to use the photo. My question is, are you giving them the photo or are you selling them rights to use it? The phone company charges a lot of money to advertise in the yellow pages(business section) of that book. I'd suggest you charge them for it.
03/17/2011 11:26:06 AM · #3
Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by Luci11e:


So, basically have I given her the correct information?
What else can I do?


If you have a signed model release, you can grant them permission to use the photo. My question is, are you giving them the photo or are you selling them rights to use it? The phone company charges a lot of money to advertise in the yellow pages(business section) of that book. I'd suggest you charge them for it.


Not sure if your asking about pictures taken of me and the boys - those arent' in question.

I'm after info regarding the photos I took that they want to use. I was just going to give them photo to get my work out there. My thinking was they didn't want copyrighted images because they didn't want to pay for them and maybe that's what had it stalled.
Am I wrong? To make some money off it sure would be nice.
03/17/2011 11:40:56 AM · #4
Signed releases are for the organizations use only usually. Not for someone else for advertising purposes to sell the photos. For editorial use yes, for advertising no.

I assure you they are likely looking for royalty free images, meaning they don't want to pay for use of the photo. Which just means more money in their pocket because they have less expenses.
03/17/2011 11:42:56 AM · #5
Originally posted by MattO:

Signed releases are for the organizations use only usually. Not for someone else for advertising purposes to sell the photos. For editorial use yes, for advertising no.

I assure you they are likely looking for royalty free images, meaning they don't want to pay for use of the photo. Which just means more money in their pocket because they have less expenses.


1st sentence - exactly what I thought

2nd sentence - THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION!!!!
03/17/2011 10:38:06 PM · #6
Fantastic news... Hope all of this works out for you and that you people get to appreciate the images and associate them with you and the powwow in question.

Nice work.

Ray
03/20/2011 04:22:58 AM · #7
Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by Luci11e:


So, basically have I given her the correct information?
What else can I do?


If you have a signed model release, you can grant them permission to use the photo. My question is, are you giving them the photo or are you selling them rights to use it? The phone company charges a lot of money to advertise in the yellow pages(business section) of that book. I'd suggest you charge them for it.

sadly, they won't pay a dime for it. 15 years ago, a phone company would pay a professional 10-15 THOUSAND dollars to go out and shoot a cover. not any more...

on the other hand, an image of mine went on 1.1 MILLION phonebooks, and even though the phone company paid me nothing, the print sales more than made up for it. more details here...

congrats on being considered, lorie! hope you can get all the details worked out!
03/20/2011 05:19:30 AM · #8
Originally posted by MattO:

Signed releases are for the organizations use only usually. Not for someone else for advertising purposes to sell the photos. For editorial use yes, for advertising no.

I assure you they are likely looking for royalty free images, meaning they don't want to pay for use of the photo. Which just means more money in their pocket because they have less expenses.


Model releases aren't required for editorial use, they are for commercial.You would require one in this instance. Royalty Free images aren't free, they do cost money! They are a license type.
It's always a mistake to give your work away for free just for the kudos of seeing your name in print. I ask a plumber to come and fix my pipes, I tell him that I won't pay him, but I'll tell all my friends that he fixed the pipes and I'll mention it on my blog/Twitter/Facebook. <----- very unlikely scenario with the plumber, but photographers seem happy to do it - why?
03/20/2011 05:38:42 AM · #9
Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:

Model releases aren't required for editorial use.

This is mostly true, but not in every instance. If you are on private property or at a private function, you *may* be crossing the lines of invasion of privacy. You may even be out of bounds if you are on an assignment to photograph something particular and you photograph something else that you were asked either not to photograph or not to publish...

Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:

Royalty Free images aren't free, they do cost money! They are a license type.
It's always a mistake to give your work away for free just for the kudos of seeing your name in print. I ask a plumber to come and fix my pipes, I tell him that I won't pay him, but I'll tell all my friends that he fixed the pipes and I'll mention it on my blog/Twitter/Facebook. <----- very unlikely scenario with the plumber, but photographers seem happy to do it - why?

matt wasn't implying anything otherwise, except that many businesses will do whatever they can to NOT pay anything. it's up to the photographer to determine whether or not they can make it pay off. when a start up magazine tells me they'll give me exposure, i laugh; if the phone company wants to publish an image of mine, i'll gladly give it to them, knowing full well the marketing potential it represents.
03/20/2011 05:50:49 AM · #10
Originally posted by Skip:

sadly, they won't pay a dime for it. 15 years ago, a phone company would pay a professional 10-15 THOUSAND dollars to go out and shoot a cover. not any more...


That says it all :( You would have had exactly the same amount of 'publicity' if you'd sold them the image and not trashed the way for other professional photographers who do this for a living :(
03/20/2011 02:36:12 PM · #11
Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:

Originally posted by Skip:

sadly, they won't pay a dime for it. 15 years ago, a phone company would pay a professional 10-15 THOUSAND dollars to go out and shoot a cover. not any more...


That says it all :( You would have had exactly the same amount of 'publicity' if you'd sold them the image and not trashed the way for other professional photographers who do this for a living :(

yep, i am personally responsible for trashing the entire industry. call me part of the problem, not the solution.
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