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04/29/2011 10:21:12 PM · #1
Close to oblivion in 1997, Apple is now the world's second-most valuable company, after Exxon Mobil Corp. That is from today's finance report.

Upon further reading the stats on Exxon and Apple I found that Exxon's profit margin is 8.89% while Apple's is 22.36%. Oh Noooooo and in the last three years I purchased 3 Iphones, 1 Ipad, 2 macbook pros, and an Imac. In the same three years I purchased and gave out as gifts approximately $500 in Apple Itunes cards....Oh...and I also have an Apple TV box.

.....and to think that $22.36 of every $100 of my purchases went to profit !

FU Apple...I'm done....I'm going back to Windows, I'm going to Google Android Phones, and I'm going to buy Zunes for now on.

Yikes...no I'm not going to Windows or Zune....Microsoft profit is 30.84%....crap...Google's profit margin is 28.43% ..No Android for me....

....what am I going to do now? There must be something out there not driven by profit...Oh...I got it...I'll download Linux for free but what the hell am I going to download it with and what am I going to load it into?

Some company must have workable computers, software, phones, and music players out there that only earn the parent company 5 - 10% in profits (my view of what should be earned by corporations).

Please advertise or send me some spam email with a link to your products...I want to help your company by purchasing your products...however, if you start selling tons of these items, I will not purchase any more of your products if your profits rise above 10%.....so keep an eye on it.
04/29/2011 11:23:53 PM · #2
If your goal is to only support companies who wish not to be successful or profitable, I'm thinking you're going to become a hermit pretty quickly. What on Earth is your point?
04/29/2011 11:32:04 PM · #3
on the off chance that you are actually serious, I suppose you prefer barely successful companies, with barely successful products, probably inadequate customer support.

I agree with Alan, what is your point, if there is one? Companies with this level of success have taken a high level of risk to get there, and often invest a great deal of those profits in R&D for future products.

And, if your manager came to you tomorrow and offered you a 22% or 30% raise in reward for your hard work, would you turn it down on some "principle"?

Yea, I thought not.... :-)

Message edited by author 2011-04-29 23:33:26.
04/29/2011 11:36:45 PM · #4
Apple is making their money off Itunes, their margin on their hardware is not anywhere in that percentage. That said, I do like my driod.
04/30/2011 12:02:59 AM · #5
Originally posted by alanfreed:

If your goal is to only support companies who wish not to be successful or profitable, I'm thinking you're going to become a hermit pretty quickly. What on Earth is your point?


He's trying to do commentary on the frustration with high gas prices and the profit margins of big oil. Of course, what he's not really connecting is that the companies he's "comparing" aren't selling a product that is pretty much relied upon by the masses for daily living.

Apple products aren't instrumental in making sure that we're warm in the winter. They aren't instrumental in making sure our food gets from the farms to the stores. They aren't instrumental in powering the machines that manufacture our shelters.

Etc.

It's an amusing little side-bar, but that's about all it is.
04/30/2011 12:05:27 AM · #6
Yeah... there's something out there not driven by profit... It's called Linux :)

So build your own P.C. on the cheap and install Linux (Ubuntu or Mint are two of my favs) on it... Use GIMP and other open source programs and you're all good. Problem solved, go me :P

Upon Edit... Damn... I missed that you mentioned Linux, but you can still buy the boards cheap form China for pennies on the dollar, keeping you within your 10% margin... :) Besides, its 12:15 here, and I'm half in the bag... I could care less about profit margins, but I sure am enjoying my macbook

Message edited by author 2011-04-30 00:18:38.
04/30/2011 12:21:01 AM · #7
Thanks....so is 8.89% profit too much when it comes to the profit that is earned by a company that brings us all that great black stuff that we rely upon each and every day? If 8.89% is too much then what should it be?

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by alanfreed:

If your goal is to only support companies who wish not to be successful or profitable, I'm thinking you're going to become a hermit pretty quickly. What on Earth is your point?


He's trying to do commentary on the frustration with high gas prices and the profit margins of big oil. Of course, what he's not really connecting is that the companies he's "comparing" aren't selling a product that is pretty much relied upon by the masses for daily living.

Apple products aren't instrumental in making sure that we're warm in the winter. They aren't instrumental in making sure our food gets from the farms to the stores. They aren't instrumental in powering the machines that manufacture our shelters.

Etc.

It's an amusing little side-bar, but that's about all it is.


Message edited by author 2011-04-30 00:21:39.
04/30/2011 12:30:09 AM · #8
[Buckle up!]

Are you freakin' serious? I've never suffered fools gracefully and now is probably not the time for me to start.

Apple is successful BECAUSE they make products that people want. Don't damn them for fulfilling demand with brilliantly designed, manufactured and distributed products. And don't begrudge them the profit their investment in design and engineering entitles them to.

Yes, "entitles." They freakin' "deserve it!"

Do you drink alcohol - Better stop because of the obscene profits beer, wine and spirit companies make. And you wouldn't want to explore the taxes government extracts from these sales!

Do you drive a car? Before you join the land of Ned (Ludd, as in Luddite) I insist you calculate what you've spent on gasoline (Exxon's and others' products) and I insist you foreswear you won't use energy in this liquid, gas-tank-friendly form, for ever and ever, amen! No cars, no busses, no motorcycles, no airplanes, no trains ... The oil company profits are obscene compared to Apple. Wouldn't do to let that continue.

How about sweatshop clothing manufacturers? How about companies that force their workforce to deal with icky bio-waste stuff to brew bio-diesel for your precious eco-friendly SUV?

Okay, tongue-in-cheek aside. Why the hard on about Apple? They are a well respected company, making well respected products, using a well respected labor force ... certainly there are more worthy targets for vitriol. They are beating the shit out of Microsoft and Dell so they can't be all bad. And they've got their hands full with Google's Android ... so it ain't exactly a one-sided fight.

Now that i think about it, you'd better not be using Google, Yahoo, or Bing search engines ... talk about profit engines.

Frankly, I am beside myself when I see this radical anti-business pap. I suppose it shows. I have nothing against you, personally, but sheesh, grow a brain.

[/You Are FreeTo Move About The Cabin]

ETA: Better move this to Rant

Message edited by author 2011-04-30 00:39:43.
04/30/2011 12:44:17 AM · #9
Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:

[Buckle up!]

Are you freakin' serious?


I have to +1 this post, never really understood why people get this way, Apple was more popular when MS was killing them. Now their not edgy enough because they are a corporate giant?
I think if all the people who wanted businesses to not make a profit and go under and everyone do everything in a .org fashion would not be too happy if they got their wish.

What if your boss came to you and demanded to see all your expenses and told you he was cutting your pay because you had too much of a profit margin?

Message edited by author 2011-04-30 00:44:47.
04/30/2011 12:51:37 AM · #10
As K10DGuy pointed out this thread has nothing to do with Apple/Mac or being anti-business. This is just the OP trying to reboot his argument from a prior thread. Sort of like having a discussion in real life except one person leaves the room only to continue the conversation from the other side of a wall. It's just one of the many strange behaviors some people do on the internet but would never be caught doing in real life. At least I hope not.

Message edited by author 2011-04-30 00:53:00.
04/30/2011 01:03:18 AM · #11
Rebooting a flawed argument results in the same old "blue screen."

If I keep doing what I always did, I'll keep getting what i always got.

Pap.
04/30/2011 01:04:56 AM · #12
LOL...you should hang around my office at break and lunchtime....we have some pretty LOUD discussions on this topic as well as many others. My OP stands for what it is....posted facts that I wanted to get people thinking about. I posted it in such a way as to take the opposite side of how I really think.

I was taught many years ago in debate class to be able to debate or at least be able to empathize with the other side.

The point is...how much profit is too much? Exxon's profits are always reported in dollar amounts. When as you can see, the percent profit is many times less than well respected companies.

If 8.89% is too much then what is NOT too much? Who should police the profits? What to do with any money earned that is OVER the agreed upon profit max?

Whatever your answer is, lets hear it. If you say Exxon should only realize a 2% profit, then so be it. Some may say 2% is too much profit for a product we all need.

So I posted the facts....I just want some opinions.

Oh....and lets take the numbers as truth.....because the above numbers are what has been reported to the US Government and to shareholders. If Exxon is falsely reporting profit numbers, then I'm all for Eric Holder looking in to it.

Originally posted by yanko:

As K10DGuy pointed out this thread has nothing to do with Apple/Mac or being anti-business. This is just the OP trying to reboot his argument from a prior thread. Sort of like having a discussion in real life except one person leaves the room only to continue the conversation from the other side of a wall. It's just one of the many strange behaviors some people do on the internet but would never be caught doing in real life. At least I hope not.
04/30/2011 01:13:26 AM · #13
Originally posted by kenskid:

The point is...how much profit is too much?


Why does there have to be a limit? Who has the right to tell someone "you make to much"?

Where does it end, can we tell an individual person, say Paul Allen, Donald Trump or some other Billionaire they don't need any more?

And for that matter, what happens when they hit the limit? Sell at cost? Go out of Business?

Message edited by author 2011-04-30 01:14:29.
04/30/2011 01:21:15 AM · #14
Originally posted by kenskid:

The point is...how much profit is too much?


Paul Simon writes music, costs him zilch to do it, a Bic pen and a few scraps of paper. And he makes money performing it.

Do you suppose he would do it if his potential profit was 2% more than nothing? Obviously not.

It isn't about profit ... it's about what value I receive compared to the cost I must pay. Profit only matters when it incents entrepreneurial behavior and otherwise equal providers compete for my business.

ETA:
Nothing to see here folks. Move along. Move along.

Message edited by author 2011-04-30 02:15:45.
04/30/2011 06:39:01 AM · #15
*scratching head* The first lesson taught in Business 101 is that making money is the whole idea of going into business in the first place. So I don't see the point of this thread except to express a hate-on for Apple/Mac. And I've been an Apple/Mac person since the early 1980s, and I'm sure as hell not about to ditch my sweet little Macmini!
04/30/2011 06:59:37 AM · #16
As Dr.Confuser said "grow a brain"
04/30/2011 07:44:20 AM · #17
You've got some serious issues. Does your daddy perhaps own a few shares of Exxon? Or maybe an oil well? SMFH & ROFLMAO all at once!
04/30/2011 08:22:45 AM · #18
Capitalism is neat because it promotes things that sell, which means innovation, creativity, etc etc.
It's got weaknesses of course, like being so profit driven as to be "insensitive" to some issues (environment, sustainability, etc).

Fortunately, companies will realize that those weaknesses must be fixed, even (or especially) if it's for the good of their own bottom line.

So, it seems to be a self correcting system, and in the meantime we get to play with a bunch of cool toys.

Message edited by author 2011-04-30 08:29:30.
04/30/2011 10:08:58 AM · #19
New business model!!!

I buy Apple products at retail. Mark them up 9.5% and re-sell them to you! Your dreams come true, and I make a "fair" profit for a fair days work.

Capitalism comes through, solving problems and filling niches!

Let me know what other products you would like to buy, hehheh.

Message edited by author 2011-04-30 10:09:28.
04/30/2011 10:17:30 AM · #20
I know this isn't a mac vs the other things debate... but I don't mind paying a premium for what I feel is outstanding design and capabilities that make me more efficient. I've got a stack of three thinkpads next to me that I could use for free, yet I'm using macbook pro that I purchased at best buy and I'm lusting after the new mac book pros that were just announced. I also pay too much for work from local artists rather than buying standard artwork at ikea and I willingly donate to freeware producers if the product is well designed and benefits me.
04/30/2011 10:48:10 AM · #21
I started researching the taxes we pay on the gasoline that Exxon makes. The federal tax right now is 18.4 cents per gallon. There are state (10.5 cents per gallon average) and other taxes (applicable sales taxes, gross receipts taxes, oil inspection fees, county and local taxes,underground storage tank fees and other miscellaneous environmental fees) on top of that. I couldn't find this year's numbers, but in 2009 the average of all the taxes was 47.4 cents per gallon. Average gas prices in 2009 would make that about 16%, way over the 8.89% that Exxon made as record profits. Bottom line, the governemnt makes about 80% more on a gallon of gas than Exxon.

Maybe it is time for an open-source government.
04/30/2011 11:08:46 AM · #22
That gas wouldn't do you much good if the various government agencies hadn't collected those taxes to build and maintain the roads, and at least a tiny bit of those taxes goes to mitigate the environmental and health effects resulting from your automotive activities. Surely you don't think people who don't drive sould pay for those ...!
04/30/2011 11:13:38 AM · #23
Unfortunately, everything is driven by profit.. if it wasn't driven by profit, we would have goods that last longer. Instead of buying a new computer every year.. the computers would be designed to be upgraded and you would just purchase the upgrade needed to keep it current. So instead of complaining about the individual companys being greedy. Complain about the worlds monatary system, it is the source of everyones greed. It is the source of war. It is the source of everything bad.
04/30/2011 11:21:22 AM · #24
Originally posted by kenskid:

The point is...how much profit is too much?


In my mind that depends on the items. It also depends on if it's a need or a want. Gas/oil is something we need to live versus my iPhone. I don't think companies should be able to basically force us to pay whatever they choose because we have no choice we need the product for daily living (I.e oil, electricity). Items like iPhones which are luxury items are wants not needs (i have to keep telling myself this one lol) and as such should be treated differently.

But I don't know how much is too much, I guess when a whole country is bitching because it's gone up $2 a gallon in a couple years and rumors are it's going up a bunch more in the next few months... Then that's too much.

Side note if apples prices double over the same period they wouldn't sell nearly as many items. People would bitch and find something else.

Well off to go chase waterfalls...

Message edited by author 2011-04-30 11:22:24.
04/30/2011 12:20:54 PM · #25
Campaniles are driven by money, why is that a bad thing? Companies employee people, when they make money they can grow and create jobs, companies that are losing money generally start cutting jobs. I am not sure when this hatred for those evil profit grabbing companies started but it always cracks me up that people do not understand companies are run and paid by making profits and large corporations grew because they did it well. Did you look at what and how well they treat their employees as well or was your statement just based on a percentage figure? When a product cost more than I want to pay then I just don't buy it or find a better source but I can not find fault in a company wanting to make sure they have the necessary funds to grow and be successful.
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