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07/20/2011 03:04:16 PM · #26
Originally posted by Rainbow-Coloured-Soul:

Ok, so heard back.

The record label "don't have a photography budget", they were "hoping you would let ***** simply run with it for this batch of tour". So no fee. Do I negotiate for at least SOMETHING because they are VERY keen to use my photo or do I let them off and be happy with just the "acclaim"? I promised myself I wouldn't give a freebie away, and I don't want to, but a part of me says it might be good for future business? And I might be shooting myself in the foot.

The photo will be i the paper, online and on flyers. It will be used for 2.5 weeks approx.

They are VERY keen to use the photo....

HELP :(

Tough situation for you. Do they have alternatives? Do you have an idea of their deadlines to start printing? If you drag it out to where they won't have time to look for an alternative and then let them know what the cost is, they may have no choice. Many purchasing agents in companies have a set budget, but they will do everything they can to pay as close to zero for things as possible. As tough as it is, in your situation as described, I would send them a non-discounted quote and let the chips fall. Don't give it away. Best of luck.

ps: I'm with Bear and Skip on the "asking for a budget" and "Value is defined by the market" - it applies to my business as much as photography.
07/20/2011 03:42:45 PM · #27
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


ps: I'm with Bear and Skip on the "asking for a budget" and "Value is defined by the market" - it applies to my business as much as photography.


Ach, that's because the three of you are American - you're going backwards for breakfast with this! Now RainbowCS is battling to negotiate upwards from zero, better psychologically to start at the high end and work down. When someone approaches me about buying an image (not a commission) I'm the professional and therefore I know the price, we start negotiations from there, I don't try and catch my clients out by hoping they'll offer me a higher price because they don't know the market.
:)

Good luck RainbowCS :)
07/20/2011 03:48:25 PM · #28
You can still know the price, but first ask their budget and subsequently either raise the price (to match their budget) or let them know that their budget is insufficient. If their budget is twice what you know the price to be, you can say "that'll cover it". You'll be happy you got twice what you might have expected. They'll be happy they got what they wanted within their budget. It's what we call win-win.
07/20/2011 03:52:44 PM · #29
Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:

Ach, that's because the three of you are American - you're going backwards for breakfast with this! Now RainbowCS is battling to negotiate upwards from zero, better psychologically to start at the high end and work down. ...


What???
In any negotiation, you are at an advantage if you get the other party to throw out a number first. This is true in salary negotiations, and it's true in a buy/sell negotiation. The fact that they want it for free doesn't change anything. OK, they've tossed out their number, even though it is zero. My answer would be "I am a professional, and as such I do not give away my work. I value this work at ***. Let's talk about what combination of monetary and other compensation might work for both of us."
07/20/2011 03:57:01 PM · #30
I have just sent the quote (and detailed email). I have asked for £250. It's more than fair for what they want to use it for. If you don't take "risks" in life, you don't get anywhere.
07/20/2011 03:57:32 PM · #31
Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:

Ach, that's because the three of you are American - you're going backwards for breakfast with this! Now RainbowCS is battling to negotiate upwards from zero, better psychologically to start at the high end and work down. ...


What???
In any negotiation, you are at an advantage if you get the other party to throw out a number first. This is true in salary negotiations, and it's true in a buy/sell negotiation. The fact that they want it for free doesn't change anything. OK, they've tossed out their number, even though it is zero. My answer would be "I am a professional, and as such I do not give away my work. I value this work at ***. Let's talk about what combination of monetary and other compensation might work for both of us."

Well to be honest that's exactly what I do, but I miss out the first part and start at the " I value this work at..." stage. I guess I prefer not to play games, clients seem to like the straightforward approach too, I doubt there's a right way, just what works for you :)
07/20/2011 04:00:20 PM · #32
Originally posted by Rainbow-Coloured-Soul:

I have just sent the quote (and detailed email). I have asked for £250. It's more than fair for what they want to use it for. If you don't take "risks" in life, you don't get anywhere.


Well done you :) Just make sure they understand that when they want to use the image for the bands next album cover, they have to pay again ;)
07/20/2011 04:32:42 PM · #33
Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:

Originally posted by Rainbow-Coloured-Soul:

I have just sent the quote (and detailed email). I have asked for £250. It's more than fair for what they want to use it for. If you don't take "risks" in life, you don't get anywhere.


Well done you :) Just make sure they understand that when they want to use the image for the bands next album cover, they have to pay again ;)


Thanks CRP, and everyone else.

I think I have finally reached.... the rock bottom equivalent of not working for free any more. I've worked for 7 years for free. I now want to make my living this way. And I know my images are more than worth it. It's a risk putting off such a high profile client, but it's one I am willing to take at this point. If in the end, all I have left is the privilege of being asked, then I am happy with that.

Message edited by author 2011-07-20 16:33:15.
07/20/2011 04:36:06 PM · #34
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Rainbow-Coloured-Soul:

Ok, so heard back.

The record label "don't have a photography budget", they were "hoping you would let ***** simply run with it for this batch of tour". So no fee. Do I negotiate for at least SOMETHING because they are VERY keen to use my photo or do I let them off and be happy with just the "acclaim"? I promised myself I wouldn't give a freebie away, and I don't want to, but a part of me says it might be good for future business? And I might be shooting myself in the foot.

The photo will be i the paper, online and on flyers. It will be used for 2.5 weeks approx.

They are VERY keen to use the photo....

HELP :(

Tough situation for you. Do they have alternatives? Do you have an idea of their deadlines to start printing? If you drag it out to where they won't have time to look for an alternative and then let them know what the cost is, they may have no choice. Many purchasing agents in companies have a set budget, but they will do everything they can to pay as close to zero for things as possible. As tough as it is, in your situation as described, I would send them a non-discounted quote and let the chips fall. Don't give it away. Best of luck.

ps: I'm with Bear and Skip on the "asking for a budget" and "Value is defined by the market" - it applies to my business as much as photography.


Thanks Art. I think their deadlines are pretty strict, and I reflected a nod to that in my return email.

It might pay, it might not.... but I have drawn a line and I need to stay behind it. This image is worth it.
07/20/2011 05:08:51 PM · #35
"Thank you for you time on this one, but we simply do not have the budget, unfortunately.

Should anything change, I'll let you know".

I am happy with this result. I wonder whether he will come back to me. Strange he hasn't even tried to negotiate. Seems like a lovely guy, but I have to stick to my own guidelines on this.
07/20/2011 05:48:08 PM · #36
Remember that a lot of record "labels" these days are just the artist(s) acting under another name -- music publishing today is often a 100% DIY operation, and they may well not have the budget you require at this time for this project. I support your decision, just don't think it necessary to further analyze the motivations of the prospective client.
07/20/2011 05:56:24 PM · #37
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Remember that a lot of record "labels" these days are just the artist(s) acting under another name -- music publishing today is often a 100% DIY operation, and they may well not have the budget you require at this time for this project. I support your decision, just don't think it necessary to further analyze the motivations of the prospective client.


They're a fairly big record company. And I'm not analysing openly as a means for debate. Just mildly curious. :)

For me the matter is at an end unless he decides to contact me again. It was a privilege that I was asked in the first place.

Message edited by author 2011-07-20 17:57:49.
07/20/2011 06:03:08 PM · #38
what a trip. what a freakin trip.

you might counter with, "fine, you can use the image if you bring me along on the tour as the official photographer and cover my expenses."
07/20/2011 06:21:40 PM · #39
Well done for sticking to your guns. That may have it's own rewards :)
07/20/2011 06:45:44 PM · #40
Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:

Well done for sticking to your guns. That may have it's own rewards :)

+1
07/20/2011 07:01:24 PM · #41
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:

Well done for sticking to your guns. That may have it's own rewards :)

+1


+2
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