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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Nikon 800 versus 700
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03/08/2012 03:49:50 PM · #1
I have an 800E on order...I'm sure I was one of the first to click...but I've had many second thoughts.

The pluses on the device to me were moving up to full frame, the SD slot (since I have lots of nice big SD cards), and the same battery as my 7000, meaning I would not have to buy a new battery as an "extra"

The minuses are "the unknown!" and 36 Mpixels! Although I call myself a landscape shooter, I do shoot a fair amount of theatre and other general photography. And I loathe noise and noise reduction software. So much that I considered a D3s many times...just can't fathom that price. And I take a lot of pictures...36 Mpixels a shot is going to require a rethinking of my retention policy! I already have an online set of over almost 3 TB of images.

So today I noticed a better than usual price of the D700 at B&H..down to $2199. So, what did I do...I ordered one. Of course, it's on backorder.

Not to mention I don't keep cameras forever, as well as worry about walking around with $$$, and $2199 sounds a lot better than $3299.

Anyway, I will end up canceling one order as I think about it. I'm leaning towards cancelling the D800E. What do you think...

03/08/2012 04:08:49 PM · #2
I have a D700 and I love it. It's low light performance and lack of noise is amazing.

I worry a little about the D800E because of the moire(sp?) issue I've read about. Is it that much sharper that it's worth the moire issue? The D800E seems to take away a feature and charge more for it. The 36MPs is compelling though.

In a perfect world we could have both.
03/08/2012 04:13:45 PM · #3
I love my D700, not even tempted to upgrade to a D800, I've never found the 700 lacking in any department!

If I were you I would save the money and put it towards something like the 85mm 1.4 that you'll keep for good :)
03/08/2012 04:34:39 PM · #4
Originally posted by Covert_Oddity:

I love my D700, not even tempted to upgrade to a D800, I've never found the 700 lacking in any department!

The only one I've found is FPS. Although with the MB-D10 grip, you can push that up to 8 FPS, which is what I did. I'd love to try out the D4 with 11 FPS.

CS
03/08/2012 06:16:19 PM · #5
Neil, I have a D800 on order too. However, I decided not to go with the D800E. For my type of work, I think that the non-E version is better. However, I am still unsure. Why did you go with the E-version? Michael
03/08/2012 06:31:31 PM · #6
Michael, I thought that the "extra sharpness" from removing the AA filter was one of the real "revolutions" of the new camera. Seems like it would be good for landscapes...and sharpness is the antithesis of noise to me, since I also see less noise if I don't have to apply USM or other sharpening!

Message edited by author 2012-03-08 18:31:44.
03/08/2012 06:58:12 PM · #7
I currently shoot a 5dMarkII 21mps.. Soon to be the MarkIII at 22 mps. Personally I find the low 20's to be perfect. Lots of resolution and available image to crop. Which is great for my birding shots.
I really think any more file size, would be a waste for me. Filling my drives, that much faster. But if you plan to print large images, (20x30 and up) the 36 mps would be worth the file size. So for me, I would go the 700 route. If you do go 36mps, I would not get the E model. I believe they took of an alias filter. Which can cause more image issues. I think the normal model, would be more to your style.

03/09/2012 10:09:13 AM · #8
Neil, on the surface your makes great sense. However, I have heard that a great deal more post-processing of the image is required.

Without the anti-aliasing filter to remove line interpolation alignment problems (jaggies), "some" images will display the jaggies which will need to be dealt with in the computer. It is my view that not every image will display the jaggies, but a lot will. Therefore, you will end up making use of some anti-aliasing process in the computer to smooth out the interpolation issues.

For my type of photography, I desire the higher resolution to permit excessive cropping on distance objects (airshows and communication towers) and I have less desire to be manipulating the images for the jaggies. With communication towers, this problem will be commonly present. All of these statements are conjecture on my part since I have not yet used the D800 so it is hard to predict to what level of annoyance the jaggies are in the new camera.

In addition, I plan to be in Florida for the Sun 'n Fun aviation week at the end of March and I have heard that the D800E has been delayed again (along with the D4), this time for a month to around the end of April. The basic D800 is still predicted for March 20th release so I remain hopeful that it will arrive in time for my departure flight on March 26th. Only time will tell.

Perhaps after we both get our new cameras we can compare notes and share a few example images to continue this discussion. Normally, I buy cameras in pairs and would have ordered two D800s. However, I deliberately delayed making the order for the second body in case I want the D800E. It will mean that I will have one of each, but I could sell the original D800 for the D800E if it is too much of a compromise due to the anti-aliasing filter. With that said, I still think that I made the right decision for my kind of photography. We shall see...

Originally posted by Neil:

Michael, I thought that the "extra sharpness" from removing the AA filter was one of the real "revolutions" of the new camera. Seems like it would be good for landscapes...and sharpness is the antithesis of noise to me, since I also see less noise if I don't have to apply USM or other sharpening!


Message edited by author 2012-03-09 10:12:26.
03/09/2012 10:55:55 PM · #9
The Nikon software is supposed to take care of the anti-aliasing. And I was under the impression they were also going to add antialiasing to LR4...but now that it's out, I'm not sure (I still have the beta, and haven't upgraded it yet).

Speaking of cameras that aren't being delivered...I thought the NEX-7 wasn't really shipping yet. Do you have one?

ETA: I mean moire removal, not anti-aliasing per se.

Message edited by author 2012-03-09 22:56:36.
03/10/2012 12:16:00 AM · #10
Yes Lightroom 4 has the moire removal tool but just like Nikons software that comes with the E version it won't be able to repare a strong case of moire. The way I understand it is unless you are a pixel peeper you wont see the sharpness difference between the two versions but if you shoot people and you can't control what clothes they will be wearing It would be advisable to get the normal version, that's what I've ordered anyway. If to make a better camera it was just a case of removing the antialiasing filter all the manufactures would do it and it would cost them less, I find it silly that they charge more for less.
03/10/2012 12:22:31 AM · #11
Originally posted by jagar:

Yes Lightroom 4 has the moire removal tool but just like Nikons software that comes with the E version it won't be able to repare a strong case of moire. The way I understand it is unless you are a pixel peeper you wont see the sharpness difference between the two versions but if you shoot people and you can't control what clothes they will be wearing It would be advisable to get the normal version, that's what I've ordered anyway. If to make a better camera it was just a case of removing the antialiasing filter all the manufactures would do it and it would cost them less, I find it silly that they charge more for less.


Not more for less. I think they are charging more for moire :)
03/10/2012 12:42:21 AM · #12
If This is true then it's how I expected it to be, hardly any difference between versions, it would also mean that the camera is amazing in low light and at least a stop better than the d700.
03/13/2012 05:25:06 PM · #13
Hi Neil,

Yes, I have had the Sony Nex7 for two weeks now and love it. It is a great camera with an amazing 24.3 Mp of resolution. The images are stunning and the details are incredible. While it is impossible to display the resolution with the limitations of DPC, here is an example of the camera resolution. The wide shot is the original image and shot of the eye is a crop to display the ability to get in close without special lenses. What do you think?

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/0-4999/3084/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1004318.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/0-4999/3084/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1004318.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/0-4999/3084/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1004316.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/0-4999/3084/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1004316.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Originally posted by Neil:

The Nikon software is supposed to take care of the anti-aliasing. And I was under the impression they were also going to add antialiasing to LR4...but now that it's out, I'm not sure (I still have the beta, and haven't upgraded it yet).

Speaking of cameras that aren't being delivered...I thought the NEX-7 wasn't really shipping yet. Do you have one?

ETA: I mean moire removal, not anti-aliasing per se.

03/13/2012 05:29:20 PM · #14
From what I have heard, the D800E actually has more circuitry than the D800. It is not simply a matter to remove a filter. This is actually a main firmware algorithm within the camera CPU. It may include a hardware change as well as a firmware change. I was told that the D800E actually has more in it then the D800. In this case more does mean moire.

Originally posted by jagar:

Yes Lightroom 4 has the moire removal tool but just like Nikons software that comes with the E version it won't be able to repare a strong case of moire. The way I understand it is unless you are a pixel peeper you wont see the sharpness difference between the two versions but if you shoot people and you can't control what clothes they will be wearing It would be advisable to get the normal version, that's what I've ordered anyway. If to make a better camera it was just a case of removing the antialiasing filter all the manufactures would do it and it would cost them less, I find it silly that they charge more for less.

03/15/2012 03:08:13 PM · #15
Good article about removal of AA filter here: //www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/the_naked_sensor.shtml

I'm still very much on the fence!

Message edited by author 2012-03-15 15:08:22.
03/15/2012 03:23:23 PM · #16
I love my D700. Thought about the upgrade but those file sizes are just way to big for me to handle. You still get fantastic image quality with the 700 for your landscapes and you can turn right around and shoot in some very dark places. Go with the D700 and get more glass.
03/15/2012 04:19:24 PM · #17
Interesting article, thank you for sharing it.

Originally posted by Neil:

Good article about removal of AA filter here: //www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/the_naked_sensor.shtml

I'm still very much on the fence!

03/21/2012 03:09:07 PM · #18
My new Nikon D800 has arrived at the retailer. I will pick it up tomorrow morning. This should be fun.
03/21/2012 03:21:26 PM · #19
Great! Go get it, shoot em, and post em!
03/22/2012 08:44:29 AM · #20
Originally posted by Morgan:

My new Nikon D800 has arrived at the retailer. I will pick it up tomorrow morning. This should be fun.


Eager to read your review.
03/22/2012 01:45:15 PM · #21
Originally posted by Morgan:

My new Nikon D800 has arrived at the retailer. I will pick it up tomorrow morning. This should be fun.

Dang. Lucky you. I am hopeful mine will arrive next week. fingers crossed. Look forward to hearing your first thoughts.
03/29/2012 03:37:39 PM · #22
Well the longer I wait, the more second thoughts I have...

My favorite end of the range is wide angle. I don't see many good choices there. Ugh...am I going to have to buy the $2000 Nikon 14-24 now? Am I going to want to carry this beast on vacations, where the good scenery is to be had, or am I going to want to carry my D7000 instead anyway!

I was thinking it was the perfect camera for the Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, etc. But my wife likes to hike. So if I shoot in the morning for good light, where is this camera going to sit all day -- in my hotel room? Or an I going to lug it everywhere?

I'd also be tempted to cancel and think about it some more. But knowing Nikon, the price will only go up!
03/29/2012 03:51:30 PM · #23
Neil, this is a nice lens, no argument. But, carrying one camera versus another is all the same to me. Get a good backpack.

Originally posted by Neil:

Well the longer I wait, the more second thoughts I have...

My favorite end of the range is wide angle. I don't see many good choices there. Ugh...am I going to have to buy the $2000 Nikon 14-24 now? Am I going to want to carry this beast on vacations, where the good scenery is to be had, or am I going to want to carry my D7000 instead anyway!

I was thinking it was the perfect camera for the Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, etc. But my wife likes to hike. So if I shoot in the morning for good light, where is this camera going to sit all day -- in my hotel room? Or an I going to lug it everywhere?

I'd also be tempted to cancel and think about it some more. But knowing Nikon, the price will only go up!

03/30/2012 05:59:40 AM · #24
D800 shadow pushing
04/02/2012 10:46:51 AM · #25
Joined the D800 owners club

Nice surprise, as I had been informed the retailer did not know when it was going to arrive and that it maybe another 4-8 weeks (this was last Wednesday). Today I received an e-mail to say it's in. Within 2 hours of receiving that e-mail I had the camera in my hot little hands. So nice to get personal service. I walked into the shop and was greeted by name and handed my bag of tricks. ( OK a little financial transaction took place in between) Internet shopping has it's uses, but sometimes it's just nice to talk to someone who understands the excitement of getting a new toy :)

Now in learning mode.

Message edited by author 2012-04-02 10:47:10.
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