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04/13/2012 06:01:49 PM · #151
Originally posted by scalvert:

Bicentennial Kelvin Medal winner from the The Royal Philosophical Society of Glasgow


Ah, this is so awesome. Did you know that if you Google "Bicentennial Kelvin Medal" the first twenty results (I stopped after that) are all abour Richard Dawkins? You'd think if it were a prestigious award there would be at least one link that talks about it apart from him. He appears to be the only winner. In other words, the award appears to be conjured out of thin air.

Listen, Shannon, you are a good guy. I grant you the Grand Poobah Obstinate Award of Philosophical Dundery. You are more than welcome to put that on your resume...
04/13/2012 06:11:54 PM · #152
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Did you know that if you Google "Bicentennial Kelvin Medal" the first twenty results (I stopped after that) are all abour Richard Dawkins? You'd think if it were a prestigious award there would be at least one link that talks about it apart from him. He appears to be the only winner.

Did you know that the BICENTENNIAL Kelvin Medal was awarded in 2002 by an institution founded in 1802 and consequently the winner for that particular year would come up frequently in Google searches? Thank you for the nice award, but given the above I seriously doubt your credentials.

Message edited by author 2012-04-13 18:17:39.
04/13/2012 06:18:25 PM · #153
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Did you know that if you Google "Bicentennial Kelvin Medal" the first twenty results (I stopped after that) are all abour Richard Dawkins? You'd think if it were a prestigious award there would be at least one link that talks about it apart from him. He appears to be the only winner.

Did you know that the BICENTENNIAL medal represented their 200th annual award and consequently the sole winner for that particular year would come up frequently in Google searches? Moron.


Of course. Did you know that anybody who gives their lecture that year gets an award? 2011's winner is Dame Sue Ion (what a bitchin name!) for her talk on "21st century energy challenges: fuel for thought". Heady, academic philosophical stuff! Being in the academic world I can tell you lectures are often named (and awards given) in order to procure a sponsor to pay the speaker (I have no illusions that Dawkins did not charge the Society for giving the talk). Hey, Genentech, would you like to sponsor the Gail G. Shapiro memorial lecture on asthma at the AAAAI meeting this year? You'll get your name in front of thought leaders of the industry. This is exactly how it happens.

So I am entirely unimpressed if you think this award makes Dawkins a bona fide philosopher. No more than Dame Sue. She, however, isn't pretending to be one as far as I know.

Message edited by author 2012-04-13 18:20:11.
04/13/2012 06:23:55 PM · #154
the lecture was given in 2002, less than 50 years after the lectures started.

Message edited by author 2012-04-13 18:26:57.
04/13/2012 06:35:14 PM · #155
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

the lecture was given in 2002, less than 50 years after the lectures started.

The institution was founded in 1802, hence bicentennial. We had bicentennial quarters in 1976 even though the first U.S. quarter appeared in 1796. What a complete waste of time.
04/13/2012 06:44:54 PM · #156
Originally posted by scalvert:

What a complete waste of time.


You're telling me. So you think I'm a dolt for not being impressed he has this lecture on his resume? That this makes him a bona fide philosopher as opposed to, say, a PhD from Yale? Is Dame Ion likewise a philosopher?

It's amazing what you can find on Google. I read some of the minutes of the Society's business meeting. They sound like a quaint little society of 300-400 members. Almost 400 people came to hear Richard! Woo hoo! They also noted their speaker fees were lower that year because of cheaper airfare. They were happy that their mailing list has reached 750 people. The Civic Dinner was a smashing success...

Message edited by author 2012-04-13 18:56:00.
04/13/2012 07:01:00 PM · #157
Wait! This changes everything!

Any other competent business
(a) It had been suggested that mouse mats and/or T-shirts be produced depicting the Society logo. The President
proposed circulating the membership to ascertain interest in these items.
(b) The President drew attention to a paper weight which had been produced, depicting the Society logo. This had
been presented as a souvenir to speakers and had been much appreciated.

Sha-ZAM! I bet Richard loves his and uses it to clunk theists over the head who inadvertently wind up in his office.
04/13/2012 07:26:14 PM · #158
Originally posted by DrAchoo:


The point is not whether this is a miracle or not. The point is the impossibility of proving it one way or the other definitively.


Really now... perhaps we should pass that message on to the Catholic church.

I seem to recall that one of the requirements for the canonization process is proof of miracles.

It may come as a surprise to some that the number of canonizations has seemingly dropped dramatically of late... what with all those pesky scientific tests and all.

Ray
04/13/2012 07:33:20 PM · #159
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

So you think I'm a dolt for not being impressed he has this lecture on his resume? That this makes him a bona fide philosopher as opposed to, say, a PhD from Yale?

You're appealing to authority to rescue an argument from ignorance. Too funny. Pathetic, but funny.
04/13/2012 08:26:30 PM · #160
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

So you think I'm a dolt for not being impressed he has this lecture on his resume? That this makes him a bona fide philosopher as opposed to, say, a PhD from Yale?

You're appealing to authority to rescue an argument from ignorance. Too funny. Pathetic, but funny.


Classic stuff. You bring up that Plantinga is not a scientist. I bring up Dawkins is not a philosopher and we're discussing a philosophical argument. You appeal to authority by pointing out his awesome philosophical society award. I lay bare the "awesomeness" of the award (complete with paper weight). You claim it is I, in fact, who is appealing to authority and being ignorant.

This is about as good as it gets with you on rant.

Peace out. It is "infinitely more probably" I would rather be enjoying a bowl of Toshi's Ramen. I'll let you decide how likely that is exactly.

Just so it's all fresh in our memory...
Originally posted by Shannon, the sage:

While you focus on the "leaving aside" part rather than the actual point, are you referring to the Bicentennial Kelvin Medal winner from the The Royal Philosophical Society of Glasgow or some other Richard Dawkins?


If I was sticking around, I fully expect you to say, "no, that wasn't an appeal to authority. The sky is not blue. Look! A monkey!"

Message edited by author 2012-04-13 20:30:15.
04/13/2012 08:36:08 PM · #161
I have to wonder if you two would come to blows if you ever were to meet face to face. ;D
04/13/2012 08:46:57 PM · #162
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Just so it's all fresh in our memory...
Originally posted by Shannon, the sage:

While you focus on the "leaving aside" part rather than the actual point, are you referring to the Bicentennial Kelvin Medal winner from the The Royal Philosophical Society of Glasgow or some other Richard Dawkins?

Incredibly, you're complaining that I challenged your meaningless appeal to authority while still ignoring the actual point that Platinga's positive claim of an intelligent designer bears the burden of proof (even going so far as to quote me SAYING that you're not addressing the point).

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

So you think I'm a dolt for not being impressed he has this lecture on his resume?

No, that's not the reason.
04/13/2012 08:50:12 PM · #163
Originally posted by Kelli:

I have to wonder if you two would come to blows if you ever were to meet face to face. ;D

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. - Thomas Jefferson I might try striking up a more rational conversation with the bug, though.
04/14/2012 01:16:11 AM · #164
Originally posted by Kelli:

I have to wonder if you two would come to blows if you ever were to meet face to face. ;D


Naw. It might be uncomfortable at first, but I bet after the ice melted we'd wind up having a good time over photography.
04/14/2012 01:21:44 AM · #165
I have a new hero...

Dawkins refusal to debate William Craig Lane is cynical and anti-intellectual

The article, BTW, is written by a skeptic.

Another take..

Dawkins' is either a fool or a coward for refusing to debate William Craig Lane

Message edited by author 2012-04-14 01:23:37.
04/14/2012 01:57:09 AM · #166
Funny how this debate started with lots of different people and boiled down to just you two again!

04/14/2012 02:04:04 AM · #167
I'm not usually a fan of Dawkins actually (I think he's a bit of a pompous jerk) but this quote is spot on (and the TED talk is quite good as well):

"An atheist is just somebody who feels about Yahweh the way any decent Christian feels about Thor or Baal or the golden calf. We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.

From his TED talk.

Message edited by author 2012-04-14 02:08:04.
04/14/2012 02:16:16 AM · #168
Only in not knowing can we ever understand, is that atheist or religious? Full to the very brim we are.
04/14/2012 05:40:35 AM · #169
Originally posted by jagar:

Only in not knowing can we ever understand, is that atheist or religious? Full to the very brim we are.


No half cup empty in this scenario...so I assume in this instance we know only too well that it is what it is.

Ray

Message edited by author 2012-04-14 05:41:48.
04/14/2012 07:20:12 AM · #170
God exists. He exists because people believe in him.
04/14/2012 07:35:52 AM · #171
Can we all start believing in a huge amount of cash in my bank account please :)
04/14/2012 07:54:59 AM · #172
Originally posted by mike_311:

God exists. He exists because people believe in him.


Je pense donc je suis.

Beyond our tainted opinions of what is or isn't, reality lies exactly how it is, true spirtuel practice in any form or culture is only a technique to help us get over the hurdle of our own minds. We spread the illusion of self all over reality, even into the spirtuel domain, of course when that happens we have to invent religion, who's reflections of our own duality are only too obvious.
04/14/2012 08:22:26 AM · #173
im not saying its correct as the same can be true for Santa Clause and the Easter bunny or ghosts or goblins.

04/14/2012 10:12:44 AM · #174
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I have a new hero...

Pretty sure we've already covered this ground in rant and also noted that Dawkins DID wind up debating Craig about a year ago. Given all the hype and demand, one would expect Craig to heavily publicize the result of that encounter... unless it didn't go so well.

Message edited by author 2012-04-14 10:21:36.
04/14/2012 11:58:52 AM · #175
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I have a new hero...

Pretty sure we've already covered this ground in rant and also noted that Dawkins DID wind up debating Craig about a year ago. Given all the hype and demand, one would expect Craig to heavily publicize the result of that encounter... unless it didn't go so well.


By my reading it wasn't really a debate as much as a panel discussion. I'm not good at links sometimes on the iPad, but you can watch it if you YouTube "Debate: does the universe have a purpose?"

And from the links I can find, it's the Craig camp semmingly talking about it. Your own article talks about it by deriding the "self-congradulatory hype". I think there isn't much talk because it wasn't really the Mano e Mano debate people were looking for.
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