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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Got an umbrella now what?
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12/25/2012 09:58:08 PM · #1
I received an umbrella, stand, and mount for Christmas. Which trigger do I need? At this point in my life the cheaper the better but I do want to get started practicing with it.

I have a D70 and a SB600 Speedlight.
12/25/2012 10:02:34 PM · #2
Originally posted by SEG:

I received an umbrella, stand, and mount for Christmas. Which trigger do I need? At this point in my life the cheaper the better but I do want to get started practicing with it.

I have a D70 and a SB600 Speedlight.


Now you go outside and stand in the rain.
12/25/2012 10:06:17 PM · #3
In case you wanted an actual answer...

There are tons of options for triggers, but I'd stay away from the super cheap ones.

I prefer Cybersyncs -- //www.paulcbuff.com/cybersync.php

$60 for the transmitter. $70 for receiver (CSRB).

As reliable as pocket wizards IMO.

Message edited by author 2012-12-25 22:09:47.
12/25/2012 10:08:16 PM · #4
Oh...

and the SB600 doesn't have a sync port to my knowledge. So you'll need one of these: //www.paulcbuff.com/slfa.php

And in the future, ditch those monstrous TTL flashes and go with some cheap manual strobes with built in sync ports. You'll save a ton of money and they're easier to use.

Message edited by author 2012-12-25 22:09:00.
12/25/2012 10:20:45 PM · #5
Originally posted by kgeary:



And in the future, ditch those monstrous TTL flashes and go with some cheap manual strobes with built in sync ports.


Such as?
12/25/2012 10:31:44 PM · #6
Can a wired trigger be had at a lower cost until I build up my speedlight arsenal?
12/26/2012 12:06:15 AM · #7
Originally posted by SEG:

Can a wired trigger be had at a lower cost until I build up my speedlight arsenal?


Wired really isn't any cheaper. With hotshoe adapters, cords and flash adapters, you end up spending just as much. Just go with wireless. Plus wired is more of a trip hazard.

If you are strapped, there are many varieties of chinese triggers that are cheap. Phottix Stratos, CTR-301P, RF-602 are all decent triggers and can get you started.
12/26/2012 01:45:42 AM · #8
For wireless triggers Pocket wizards are king, but they are pricey solidly built ETTL flash and trigger control.
Cowboy Studio or similar Chinese systems will trip your lights for much cheaper, but only trip the flash with no metering. That means you will be adjusting the settings on the flash, moving stands back and forth to get the lighting right, which eats time and can piss off models. If you are shooting production or a "won't happen again" moment, spend the money for top line gear. I went cheap and am willing to fritter my time, and with the money I saved I bought a couple of stands and umbrellas, and a few beastly flashes for cheap that would melt my camera if i ever mounted them on the hot shoe.

Read this Strobist article on using umbrellas, then read the whole site. They know more about strobe lighting than most of us will ever learn.
12/26/2012 04:34:57 AM · #9
I'm quite happy with these triggers for $74.99.
I own the Canon version of course
12/26/2012 06:04:10 AM · #10
YONGNUO RF 602 's are as cheap as chips and work a treat,available from ebay and others.
12/26/2012 10:02:46 AM · #11
Originally posted by SEG:

Originally posted by kgeary:



And in the future, ditch those monstrous TTL flashes and go with some cheap manual strobes with built in sync ports.


Such as?


Lumopro LP160 has the most convenient sync port IMO. I try to stay away from PC sync ports as they're flimsy PITAs which is why I don't use Yongnuo flashes. That and Lumopro quality control is excellent -- their strobes are tanks and I never have a problem with them. You can go with all the cheap chinese gear and replace it when it breaks or you can spend just a tad more and have gear that's going to last you a very long time.

Message edited by author 2012-12-26 10:04:11.
12/26/2012 10:18:39 AM · #12
Cactus V5 $49.95 , they work just great if you don"t mind manual triggers

good luck with your experiments


Message edited by author 2012-12-26 10:19:48.
12/26/2012 11:14:11 AM · #13
won't the on board flash trigger your nikon flash just as well for short range? If its going to interfere as a light, can you not just add a black foam or thick plastic material to cover and redirect it towards your flash's sensor?

I ask these questions because I've only worked for someone with a nikon on board flash a while ago, and then we used heavy lights with regular photo sensors, so this was all possible. As the lighting guy for that shoot, I used a combination of an umbrella and foam in a similar fashion (except i used the foam on the photo sensor in that scenario) to work in harsh sunlight at a distance of about 6 feet.
12/26/2012 01:20:49 PM · #14
Originally posted by Basta:

Cactus V5 $49.95 , they work just great if you don"t mind manual triggers

good luck with your experiments


Second that, I got a pair of the Cactus triggers and they never fail me. The only issue with them is because there's no indication they're turned on (other than the very small switch itself) I often forget to turn them off after shooting and the batteries go flat. I'm sure that applies to most triggers though.
12/26/2012 03:13:54 PM · #15
Originally posted by Covert_Oddity:

I often forget to turn them off after shooting and the batteries go flat. I'm sure that applies to most triggers though.


A blob of red fingernail polish to indicate the ON position is a big help for me with the standard black on black plastic casing, plus you can feel it in very dim lighting and know where the toggle is positioned.
12/26/2012 03:18:13 PM · #16
Originally posted by Devinder:

won't the on board flash trigger your nikon flash just as well for short range?


The advantage of radio triggers are that they do not need that flattening on camera flash, so you can keep the center dark if you want, and at shots like weddings where others will be shooting at the same time, their flashes will not trigger your lights.
12/26/2012 03:44:59 PM · #17
Yup. I second the youngnuos. Dont remember which number, but they're cheap, they work very well, (even through walls), they czn even triigee my camera remotely, which i use even more than trigerring my flash remotely.

Two things: they are for manual, not ttl, and there is a design feature that's annoying: i have to take them off flash to turn them off, but it's well worth it for the cost savings.

12/26/2012 04:24:07 PM · #18
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by Devinder:

won't the on board flash trigger your nikon flash just as well for short range?


The advantage of radio triggers are that they do not need that flattening on camera flash, so you can keep the center dark if you want, and at shots like weddings where others will be shooting at the same time, their flashes will not trigger your lights.


I agree. I own a PocketWizard system and it works well for several applications. Since i ditched the 60d, its become almost a necessity.

Looking at the original post asking for what he needed, and i think i should have been clearer. I was proposing that he really might not need new equipment to get started if Nikon speedlites supported that. The flattening light can be avoided by containing it with any opaque foam/plastic material and redirecting it. Its a cheaper solution (est cost $1 for 5 sheets of foam), until you really get going with your complete flash system and triggers. Rather than make a strained purchase right away, you can make it when you're ready.

if he's shooting weddings, then of course, my suggestion won't work, and it might be worth the early investment to purchase the triggers.

Message edited by author 2012-12-26 16:27:39.
12/26/2012 08:02:04 PM · #19
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by Devinder:

won't the on board flash trigger your nikon flash just as well for short range?


The advantage of radio triggers are that they do not need that flattening on camera flash, so you can keep the center dark if you want, and at shots like weddings where others will be shooting at the same time, their flashes will not trigger your lights.


I am pretty sure that CLS can be configured to NOT include the on camera flash for the actual shot, it is only used as a preflash for metering. Pretty sure that was covered in the One light, two light siminar that Joe McNally gave last summer.

This would mean that nothing else is required for using the umbrella and you have TTL to boot.
12/26/2012 08:34:32 PM · #20
Originally posted by rcollier:

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by Devinder:

won't the on board flash trigger your nikon flash just as well for short range?


The advantage of radio triggers are that they do not need that flattening on camera flash, so you can keep the center dark if you want, and at shots like weddings where others will be shooting at the same time, their flashes will not trigger your lights.


I am pretty sure that CLS can be configured to NOT include the on camera flash for the actual shot, it is only used as a preflash for metering. Pretty sure that was covered in the One light, two light siminar that Joe McNally gave last summer.

This would mean that nothing else is required for using the umbrella and you have TTL to boot.


True. You can set the on-board flash to only control the remote flashes. You may get a small reflection, but it doesn't contribute to the exposure.
12/27/2012 09:25:12 AM · #21
Originally posted by alohadave:

Originally posted by rcollier:

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by Devinder:

won't the on board flash trigger your nikon flash just as well for short range?


The advantage of radio triggers are that they do not need that flattening on camera flash, so you can keep the center dark if you want, and at shots like weddings where others will be shooting at the same time, their flashes will not trigger your lights.


I am pretty sure that CLS can be configured to NOT include the on camera flash for the actual shot, it is only used as a preflash for metering. Pretty sure that was covered in the One light, two light siminar that Joe McNally gave last summer.

This would mean that nothing else is required for using the umbrella and you have TTL to boot.


True. You can set the on-board flash to only control the remote flashes. You may get a small reflection, but it doesn't contribute to the exposure.


It also depends on what kind of work you're doing. I was trying to achieve a shot for the silhouette challenge but since I was using my on board flash to fire my sb600, my face would light up.
eta: It is always possible that I was doing something wrong :/

Message edited by author 2012-12-27 09:25:49.
12/27/2012 11:54:37 AM · #22
Originally posted by BrennanOB:

For wireless triggers Pocket wizards are king, but they are pricey solidly built ETTL flash and trigger control.
Cowboy Studio or similar Chinese systems will trip your lights for much cheaper, but only trip the flash with no metering. That means you will be adjusting the settings on the flash, moving stands back and forth to get the lighting right, which eats time and can piss off models. If you are shooting production or a "won't happen again" moment, spend the money for top line gear. I went cheap and am willing to fritter my time, and with the money I saved I bought a couple of stands and umbrellas, and a few beastly flashes for cheap that would melt my camera if i ever mounted them on the hot shoe.

Read this Strobist article on using umbrellas, then read the whole site. They know more about strobe lighting than most of us will ever learn.


I have the Cowboy triggers and they work great. Cheap and durable. Can't beat them for the money. The only reason I'm not using them anymore is I received some PW IIIs.
12/27/2012 02:52:42 PM · #23
Originally posted by Dphoto:

I have the Cowboy triggers and they work great. Cheap and durable. Can't beat them for the money. The only reason I'm not using them anymore is I received some PW IIIs.


I think this is the smart path. Buy the cheap triggers, learn your basic off camera lighting chops. Learn how much flash you want on each side, at what angle, learn what power at what distance to place the flashheads, figure out how close, how low powered you want that rim light. It takes time to do it all manually, but you learn more than if you just let the camera's ETTL tell you how to light a situation. In a while figure out if the advantages of the PW (or other better than strictly manual triggers) are worth the expense for you, by then you will know how much you want to dial up or down each unit, and where you want them before you let the camera figure out the details. And if you can get them given to you, all the better,
12/27/2012 08:23:57 PM · #24
Thanks for all the advice. I have been playing with it today with the on board flash and am having fun. I thought that the flash needed to be directly pointed at the sensor for it to work.

I may take my money in a new direction and look into backdrops instead now so I don't have to keep ironing and hanging sheets up. Then move into more umbrellas with triggers and flashes and maybe softboxes. I've been into shooting for 3+ years now as a hobby and am just getting around to finding money to spend on lighting. What's another 3 years between now and getting triggers and more lights? ' . substr('//img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/91mini/smileys/rolleyes.gif', strrpos('//img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/91mini/smileys/rolleyes.gif', '/') + 1) . '
12/27/2012 08:34:48 PM · #25
One of the best investments I ever made for studio shots was a 6 X 4 foot piece of black upholstery velvet. Beats any lens for the bang for the buck.
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