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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> SMUGMUG DISASTER ALERT!
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03/02/2013 10:37:08 PM · #1
Maybe SC could just lock the thread so we dont burden you with our low-brow public school mentality.
Good God, could you get any more obnoxious. So far no one has taken your side but it's everyone else thats an idiot. Why lower yourself to continue the discourse with us?
03/02/2013 10:35:34 PM · #2
Originally posted by kgeary:

Lol. You went to public school if you think I'm engaging in slander or libel.

There are 80 ABA-accredited public law schools in the U.S., and your implicit argument was that free speech confers immunity against a cease and desist order. It does not.
03/02/2013 10:29:05 PM · #3
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by kgeary:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I was someone at SmugMug with the authority to send out a cease & desist note, I'd be on it like white on rice, because instead of simply acknowledging that you were unable to change YOUR account the way you wanted, you've pretty much slandered them right and left...

Lol. Look up cease and desist. And then re-question who the "clueless" one is. I have a right to tell my story. You can't order a cease and desist against someone's first amendment rights.

OK, I looked it up. "A cease-and-desist letter is a letter demanding that the recipient refrain from a certain behavior or face legal action ...types of behaviors that may prompt such letters include libel or slander"


Lol. You went to public school if you think I'm engaging in slander or libel.
03/02/2013 10:28:27 PM · #4
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by kgeary:

It says nothing there about removing proof delay and NOT notifying you of orders placed. Thanks for clarifying 20% of the problem.

There would be no print order about which to notify you had you turned off printing as they suggest in their information/instruction page (pictured again below) entitled "How To Downgrade Your Account" -- if you didn't bother or neglected to read and follow their intructions I fail to see how any of the the consequences are their fault.

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At cost prints were 20% of my argument. They failed to note the most serious consequences. And because they slightly mention something on a secondary page doesn't make it right. All of the people trying to come on here and pretend like it's not a big deal are unhelpful.
03/02/2013 10:24:09 PM · #5
Originally posted by kgeary:

It says nothing there about removing proof delay and NOT notifying you of orders placed. Thanks for clarifying 20% of the problem.

There would be no print order about which to notify you had you turned off printing as they suggest in their information/instruction page (pictured again below) entitled "How To Downgrade Your Account" -- if you didn't bother or neglected to read and follow their intructions I fail to see how any of the the consequences are their fault.

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03/02/2013 10:18:32 PM · #6
Originally posted by kgeary:

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I was someone at SmugMug with the authority to send out a cease & desist note, I'd be on it like white on rice, because instead of simply acknowledging that you were unable to change YOUR account the way you wanted, you've pretty much slandered them right and left...

Lol. Look up cease and desist. And then re-question who the "clueless" one is. I have a right to tell my story. You can't order a cease and desist against someone's first amendment rights.

OK, I looked it up. "A cease-and-desist letter is a letter demanding that the recipient refrain from a certain behavior or face legal action ...types of behaviors that may prompt such letters include libel or slander"
03/02/2013 10:14:18 PM · #7
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by mike_311:

that's fine but it could and should have disabled printing or at the very least notify you ...

If you read the instructions they do notify you, and apparently provide helpful links for doing whatever (I didn't follow those any further myself), but I took a look at the linked page -- it doesn't look like they were trying to hide anything ...

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Originally posted by EL-ROI:

Uhm... Did a keyword search on smugmug help - "Downgrade account" Didn't even get to finish the entire two keywords before the first link in the pop down menu from the search bar led me right to the info I would have needed.

//help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/91812-how-do-i-downgrade-my-account-

Originally posted by smugmug help site:

We also suggest:
If you had priced photos for sale, you may want to disable printing in your galleries because your existing Pricelists will be deleted. Block Printing to prevent at-cost sales.


It can't be more helpful!! The links lead you right to the info that shows you how to do it in your control panel.


It says nothing there about removing proof delay and NOT notifying you of orders placed. Thanks for clarifying 20% of the problem.
03/02/2013 10:11:31 PM · #8
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by kgeary:

I just checked back in on this thread. While there are many ignorant comments here (like people not seeing a problem with a company obviously trying to continue to profit off other people's works in the hopes that they don't take the time to research how to use their software in what should be obvious situations), I'm happy to see that there are A LOT of people who DO get it.

I'll simply close with this:

I am not the only one that was screwed here. My client now owns $80 in at-cost prints that weren't edited. By smugmug not responsibly designing their software (any responsible programmer/company would not allow this to occur by default), they screwed over TWO parties.

Smugmug designed the system to screw over everyone but them. And if you don't want to get screwed over, you have to ASSUME that smart programming wasn't done and go research to make sure you've checked every box, dotted every i and crossed every t. I have enough things to do as a business owner than to spend time researching whether or not my partner company is going to screw me over in what should be an obvious situation: I don't want to sell prints at cost without being notified of orders and have my customers receive unedited prints while Smugmug MAKES MONEY off the disaster.

OBVIOUS, OBVIUOS, OBVIOUS. And anyone who doesn't see that is an idiot (as I said before).

What is obvious is your complete lack of a grip on reality, life, and how business works.

Yeah......you *MUST* be right.......they have teams of guys in rooms toiling over code so that they can craft a loophole that *might* net them $4.00 in the event of a downgrade.

That makes sense.

You obviously have no business experience whatsoever or you'd realize that sometimes, because of things you don't fully understand, or don't investigate thoroughly, you make a mistake that costs you time, money, or both. This isn't even actually the case. You simply found out, and closed, a loophole.

Yet somehow this is somebody's, anybody's fault but your own.......that makes sense.

At this point, with your vitriolic, and clueless ravings, if I was someone at SmugMug with the authority to send out a cease & desist note, I'd be on it like white on rice, because instead of simply acknowledging that you were unable to change YOUR account the way you wanted, you've pretty much slandered them right and left........as well as violating the TOS here by attacking anyone who doesn't share your particular version of paranoid myopia.

It sure seemed to me that they went out of their way to seek you out, help you, and offer up not only a reasonable explanation for the situation, but a promise from them to look into the situation and make some changes.

What more do you want????

Stop whining, grow up, and move on.


Lol. Look up cease and desist. And then re-question who the "clueless" one is. I have a right to tell my story. You can't order a cease and desist against someone's first amendment rights.
03/02/2013 10:07:46 PM · #9
Originally posted by tjbel05:

Originally posted by kgeary:

I just checked back in on this thread. While there are many ignorant comments here (like people not seeing a problem with a company obviously trying to continue to profit off other people's works in the hopes that they don't take the time to research how to use their software in what should be obvious situations), I'm happy to see that there are A LOT of people who DO get it.

I'll simply close with this:

I am not the only one that was screwed here. My client now owns $80 in at-cost prints that weren't edited. By smugmug not responsibly designing their software (any responsible programmer/company would not allow this to occur by default), they screwed over TWO parties.

Smugmug designed the system to screw over everyone but them. And if you don't want to get screwed over, you have to ASSUME that smart programming wasn't done and go research to make sure you've checked every box, dotted every i and crossed every t. I have enough things to do as a business owner than to spend time researching whether or not my partner company is going to screw me over in what should be an obvious situation: I don't want to sell prints at cost without being notified of orders and have my customers receive unedited prints while Smugmug MAKES MONEY off the disaster.

OBVIOUS, OBVIUOS, OBVIOUS. And anyone who doesn't see that is an idiot (as I said before).


I may be wrong here, but I thought if a customer was unhappy with their prints SmugMug would gladly issue a refund??? They do, I just looked...Print Quality My other question is..Why do you have to call people names? The beauty of this world is we are all different, with our own opinions. If you think everyone should take your side, well you are in the wrong arena. Calling people names when you don't get your way is a childish behavior and reeks of playground bully behavior.

I am also NOT a programmer or a super computer person. I did however read and compare the different levels of accounts SmugMug offered when I signed up. I also read the different help links of what would happen if I changed or disabled my account. It is my "job" to know everything about MY business. I do NOT assume anything. It is part of being in business.

Just my 2 cents.


They offered no refund for this issue.

And I'm glad you're an immaculately amazing business owner. Perhaps expecting an industry-respected business partner not to undermine my partnership with them was a mistake. I'm the bad guy for giving other people the benefit of the doubt, right?

Here's what you're missing: This is a free market. If I have to research and read the fine print to make sure me and my customers aren't getting screwed over, it's time to fire whoever I'm doing business with. THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT. Thanks for missing it.
03/02/2013 10:05:58 PM · #10
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03/02/2013 10:03:10 PM · #11
Originally posted by Brent_S:

Jeez Kevin, you really need to cool down. Do you really think you can evaluate this whole situation properly if you are so angry still that you are calling your DPC friends (who ARE trying to be helpful) idiots? It seems the greatest harm that may have come from this mishap isn't you looking bad because through a loophole your customer got a few unedited prints (that they may not have even ordered had the price been marked up), it's if your customer saw any of your temper. I'm new to the photography business, but not at all to the business world and I know well that customers have zero tolerance for angry business owners. Take a step back and chill man, then move forward and best luck to you with your business (and I'm not being sarcastic).


I believe my customers would be happy that I'm standing up for them as they were the victims of this nonsense as well. I didn't start this thread to listen to people's nonsensical explanations for why smugmug has done nothing wrong (because internet people always look to stir the pot regardless of whether or not they actually believe what they're saying). And I'm not one to mince words. I've been in business long enough to identify shoddy business practices. If others can't see it, their naivety isn't my fault.

The fact is that they were wrong and my ONLY goal was to let other smug users know what's going on (not have a discussion with people who don't get it). And by the way, there were many comments that IMPLIED I'm an idiot for not researching what should be an obvious process. Just because I used the actual word doesn't make me any worse than them.

Message edited by author 2013-03-02 22:03:42.
02/28/2013 11:04:43 AM · #12
Jeez Kevin, you really need to cool down. Do you really think you can evaluate this whole situation properly if you are so angry still that you are calling your DPC friends (who ARE trying to be helpful) idiots? It seems the greatest harm that may have come from this mishap isn't you looking bad because through a loophole your customer got a few unedited prints (that they may not have even ordered had the price been marked up), it's if your customer saw any of your temper. I'm new to the photography business, but not at all to the business world and I know well that customers have zero tolerance for angry business owners. Take a step back and chill man, then move forward and best luck to you with your business (and I'm not being sarcastic).

02/28/2013 08:49:45 AM · #13
Originally posted by kgeary:

I just checked back in on this thread. While there are many ignorant comments here (like people not seeing a problem with a company obviously trying to continue to profit off other people's works in the hopes that they don't take the time to research how to use their software in what should be obvious situations), I'm happy to see that there are A LOT of people who DO get it.

I'll simply close with this:

I am not the only one that was screwed here. My client now owns $80 in at-cost prints that weren't edited. By smugmug not responsibly designing their software (any responsible programmer/company would not allow this to occur by default), they screwed over TWO parties.

Smugmug designed the system to screw over everyone but them. And if you don't want to get screwed over, you have to ASSUME that smart programming wasn't done and go research to make sure you've checked every box, dotted every i and crossed every t. I have enough things to do as a business owner than to spend time researching whether or not my partner company is going to screw me over in what should be an obvious situation: I don't want to sell prints at cost without being notified of orders and have my customers receive unedited prints while Smugmug MAKES MONEY off the disaster.

OBVIOUS, OBVIUOS, OBVIOUS. And anyone who doesn't see that is an idiot (as I said before).


I may be wrong here, but I thought if a customer was unhappy with their prints SmugMug would gladly issue a refund??? They do, I just looked...Print Quality My other question is..Why do you have to call people names? The beauty of this world is we are all different, with our own opinions. If you think everyone should take your side, well you are in the wrong arena. Calling people names when you don't get your way is a childish behavior and reeks of playground bully behavior.

I am also NOT a programmer or a super computer person. I did however read and compare the different levels of accounts SmugMug offered when I signed up. I also read the different help links of what would happen if I changed or disabled my account. It is my "job" to know everything about MY business. I do NOT assume anything. It is part of being in business.

Just my 2 cents.

Message edited by author 2013-02-28 08:53:56.
02/28/2013 08:06:54 AM · #14
I feel a serious lose of respect for the OP. Sorry bud but if it were my business, I would want to know exactly what happens when I shut down a major portal of client interaction with my business. Assuming anything leads to this kind of mistake. This is business, and each party involved is out to make money. To be shocked that your web provider is out to make money is pretty naive. (I will refrain from calling you an idiot.)

KGeary Photography suffers from a lack of respect for other people.
02/28/2013 08:04:35 AM · #15
Kevin, relax, DPC isn't your problem, Smug Mug is. We are all going to have differing opinions on who bears responsibility for the mishap and just remember they are only opinions. Be thankful you can get forthright honesty here.

Because of your outcry it seems Smug Mug plans to make changes and that is a good thing, but there is no need call people who disagree with you idiots, you don't want to make too many enemies here in haste, you may need/want their help or opinion in the future.

02/28/2013 07:29:29 AM · #16
Originally posted by kgeary:

I just checked back in on this thread. While there are many ignorant comments here (like people not seeing a problem with a company obviously trying to continue to profit off other people's works in the hopes that they don't take the time to research how to use their software in what should be obvious situations), I'm happy to see that there are A LOT of people who DO get it.

I'll simply close with this:

I am not the only one that was screwed here. My client now owns $80 in at-cost prints that weren't edited. By smugmug not responsibly designing their software (any responsible programmer/company would not allow this to occur by default), they screwed over TWO parties.

Smugmug designed the system to screw over everyone but them. And if you don't want to get screwed over, you have to ASSUME that smart programming wasn't done and go research to make sure you've checked every box, dotted every i and crossed every t. I have enough things to do as a business owner than to spend time researching whether or not my partner company is going to screw me over in what should be an obvious situation: I don't want to sell prints at cost without being notified of orders and have my customers receive unedited prints while Smugmug MAKES MONEY off the disaster.

OBVIOUS, OBVIUOS, OBVIOUS. And anyone who doesn't see that is an idiot (as I said before).

What is obvious is your complete lack of a grip on reality, life, and how business works.

Yeah......you *MUST* be right.......they have teams of guys in rooms toiling over code so that they can craft a loophole that *might* net them $4.00 in the event of a downgrade.

That makes sense.

You obviously have no business experience whatsoever or you'd realize that sometimes, because of things you don't fully understand, or don't investigate thoroughly, you make a mistake that costs you time, money, or both. This isn't even actually the case. You simply found out, and closed, a loophole.

Yet somehow this is somebody's, anybody's fault but your own.......that makes sense.

At this point, with your vitriolic, and clueless ravings, if I was someone at SmugMug with the authority to send out a cease & desist note, I'd be on it like white on rice, because instead of simply acknowledging that you were unable to change YOUR account the way you wanted, you've pretty much slandered them right and left........as well as violating the TOS here by attacking anyone who doesn't share your particular version of paranoid myopia.

It sure seemed to me that they went out of their way to seek you out, help you, and offer up not only a reasonable explanation for the situation, but a promise from them to look into the situation and make some changes.

What more do you want????

Stop whining, grow up, and move on.
02/26/2013 11:54:07 PM · #17
Originally posted by kgeary:

Smugmug designed the system to screw over everyone but them.

As has been noted several times in this thread SmugMug clearly posts what happens by default when you downgrade your account, and instructions on what to do if you don't want the default actions to take effect.

That you (apparently) never bothered to read or follow those instructions, but rather assumed some particular thing would happen puts the burden of the problem on you, not the site.

In medical school, they teach that when we assume, it makes an ASS|U|ME ...
02/26/2013 11:52:17 PM · #18
Originally posted by smardaz:

Originally posted by kgeary:

And anyone who doesn't see that is an idiot (as I said before).


If you can't make your point w/out calling people names than you're this only one this applies to as far as I'm concerned. Smugmug rep has been on here repeatedly and you only come back now to call him an idiot? Sounds like you just want to be wronged. Have fun.

Actually, it's not the Smugmug rep he's calling an idiot, it seems to be US, or at least those among us who are saying it's reasonable the way Smugmug has handled this. Kevin's position is that Smugmug's looking out for their bottom line and don't care about US. Kevin's saying, if I read him correctly, if we don't agree with his position WE are in LaLa land, pretty much. I do wish he'd stop throwing the term "idiot" around though. "Naive" has a much nicer tone to it, don't you think, in a debate?

Message edited by author 2013-02-26 23:53:32.
02/26/2013 11:25:16 PM · #19
Originally posted by kgeary:

And anyone who doesn't see that is an idiot (as I said before).


If you can't make your point w/out calling people names than you're this only one this applies to as far as I'm concerned. Smugmug rep has been on here repeatedly and you only come back now to call him an idiot? Sounds like you just want to be wronged. Have fun.
02/26/2013 10:51:27 PM · #20
I neither use smugmug, nor am a pro. I read through the whole discussion. I do agree that smugmug has some shabby programming. Setting the software right is top priority if you ask me.
But what really surprises me is that why should the user be NOT NOTIFIED about his/her photo being printed whether or not for profit? Am I missing something here? Notification is such a basic thing. Anybody uses any data you have uploaded, you are entitled to know what happens to it; just my view :)
02/26/2013 10:09:01 PM · #21
I just checked back in on this thread. While there are many ignorant comments here (like people not seeing a problem with a company obviously trying to continue to profit off other people's works in the hopes that they don't take the time to research how to use their software in what should be obvious situations), I'm happy to see that there are A LOT of people who DO get it.

I'll simply close with this:

I am not the only one that was screwed here. My client now owns $80 in at-cost prints that weren't edited. By smugmug not responsibly designing their software (any responsible programmer/company would not allow this to occur by default), they screwed over TWO parties.

Smugmug designed the system to screw over everyone but them. And if you don't want to get screwed over, you have to ASSUME that smart programming wasn't done and go research to make sure you've checked every box, dotted every i and crossed every t. I have enough things to do as a business owner than to spend time researching whether or not my partner company is going to screw me over in what should be an obvious situation: I don't want to sell prints at cost without being notified of orders and have my customers receive unedited prints while Smugmug MAKES MONEY off the disaster.

OBVIOUS, OBVIUOS, OBVIOUS. And anyone who doesn't see that is an idiot (as I said before).
02/22/2013 10:41:30 AM · #22
Originally posted by mbonocore:

As I have noted, we are not trying to "pull one over" on anyone. We notify you when you downgrade that settings will remain intact. Could we have done better by having a more detailed message that specially references the shopping cart feature? Yes, we could have. And as I stated, I have started the process of making this more clear.

But as Gererae noted, this is the main reason behind allowing printing for our customers in the Basic and Power accounts. You can provide the ability to help your family, friends, and clients with great looking prints, even if you don't have the ability to sell. We hear from basic and power customers all the time who love the fact that they can help provide great looking prints to their friends and family, without having to do any of the work involved.

Michael

The beauty of being in business with anyone who can find their way to your site......if there's a way that you can be blamed for a loophole someone else finds, you'll get blamed.

I've never dealt with you folks, but it sure seems to me as a complete outsider that you have done everything possible to help, and let the folks here in the DPC forums see that you do indeed follow up, which after being trashed right out of the gate is pretty darn decent.

My hat's off to you folks!
02/21/2013 09:59:28 PM · #23
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by EL-ROI:

Originally posted by David Ey:

This RANT has been going on for days now. The Smugmug folks have responded by showing how it works as well as some of the people here. Doesn't look like a problem to me. Where am I missing it?


Nobody loves to fabricate a controversy more than the DPC forum crowd!


You don't follow politics much huh?

Ray


Well, actually, isn't "fabricated controversy" just another way to say politics???
02/21/2013 09:51:42 PM · #24
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

I've been a long time Smug-Mugger and their customer service has seemed very good to me, and I'm one of those customers most feared by anybody, believe me!

Anyway... Shut the fuck up and embrace reality, dammit!


find a gerbil and settle down, there's no need for such language outside of rant...you might offend someone.
02/21/2013 09:49:23 PM · #25
Originally posted by mbonocore:

As I have noted, we are not trying to "pull one over" on anyone. We notify you when you downgrade that settings will remain intact. Could we have done better by having a more detailed message that specially references the shopping cart feature? Yes, we could have. And as I stated, I have started the process of making this more clear.

But as Gererae noted, this is the main reason behind allowing printing for our customers in the Basic and Power accounts. You can provide the ability to help your family, friends, and clients with great looking prints, even if you don't have the ability to sell. We hear from basic and power customers all the time who love the fact that they can help provide great looking prints to their friends and family, without having to do any of the work involved.

Michael


if we didn't holler scream would change have occurred?

squeaky wheels gets something...

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