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03/28/2014 12:24:16 PM · #51
Originally posted by ambaker:

As a no talent, non ribbon winning hack, I probably am not qualified to post an opinion...

I understand pushing the envelope for art. But it seems the discussion has become how far can a rule be pushed before it breaks?

I understand that the photographer has an idea of the finished image, prior to pressing the shutter. At leat you good ones seem to...

My question becomes, why not set the scene that way in the first place? A house, or a power line may not be feasible to move, but lighting in a set scene is.


Yes you are correct. And that is what I was doing....intentionally using that large unmovable cabinet as a background for the tones of it....along with the north facing window light, that I knew would be soft, and flattering. I was not planning on having anything moved from the backdrop.

Unfortunately writing on a forum can not distinguish the tone of my 'voice". I am writing this, not with anger, but to let you all know what went into the image and the thinking process behind it. I do realize there is a "line" for SC to either let the rule pass or result in a DQ. So at this point, this is a good discussion to educate all of us on the rules, and the thinking behind the site councils decision, as well as mine.

I, too, looked at the image on several different monitors (after the DQ), and I can see both horizontal and vertical lines on my 'most used' monitor, but my husband's screen, just vertical lines. Yes, they are muddy, and unclear, but distinguishable on my screen.

I have a feeling this re-edit would have been legal:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/65000-69999/69668/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1107231.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/65000-69999/69668/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1107231.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Message edited by author 2014-03-28 18:23:41.
03/28/2014 12:52:54 PM · #52
Originally posted by njsabs:

I have a feeling this re-edit would have been legal:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/65000-69999/69668/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1107231.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/65000-69999/69668/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1107231.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Absolutely. You haven't crossed the line there.
03/28/2014 01:12:40 PM · #53
So my next question goes out to everyone, does the re-edit compared to the submitted entry, " change a typical viewer's description of the photograph (aside from color or crop)".

very curious to hear some of your comments.
03/28/2014 01:16:28 PM · #54
Originally posted by njsabs:

So my next question goes out to everyone, does the re-edit compared to the submitted entry, " change a typical viewer's description of the photograph (aside from color or crop)".

very curious to hear some of your comments.


between images no, but i can see a line between the original and reedit.
03/28/2014 01:29:56 PM · #55
Originally posted by njsabs:

So my next question goes out to everyone, does the re-edit compared to the submitted entry, " change a typical viewer's description of the photograph (aside from color or crop)".

That's not the issue. There's a continuum between unedited and as-submitted for this image, and there is, in fact *someplace* on the continuum where the edit is acceptable. How close that point is to the as-submitted image is irrelevant. Show me a guy with no hair, and I'll say he's bald. A million hairs, I'll say not-bald. 2 hairs? Bald. 20 Hairs? Bald. at some point "n", not-bald. N-1 is bald, n+1 is not-bald, but the difference between them is insignificant. This is a common problem in metrics of measurement. We have to live with it whenever we are dealing with subjective evaluations.

Either that or tell my neighbor he's NOT bald because bald is an absolute condition of zero-hair. He'll be delighted :-)

03/28/2014 03:13:02 PM · #56
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by njsabs:

So my next question goes out to everyone, does the re-edit compared to the submitted entry, " change a typical viewer's description of the photograph (aside from color or crop)".

That's not the issue. There's a continuum between unedited and as-submitted for this image, and there is, in fact *someplace* on the continuum where the edit is acceptable. How close that point is to the as-submitted image is irrelevant. Show me a guy with no hair, and I'll say he's bald. A million hairs, I'll say not-bald. 2 hairs? Bald. 20 Hairs? Bald. at some point "n", not-bald. N-1 is bald, n+1 is not-bald, but the difference between them is insignificant. This is a common problem in metrics of measurement. We have to live with it whenever we are dealing with subjective evaluations.

Either that or tell my neighbor he's NOT bald because bald is an absolute condition of zero-hair. He'll be delighted :-)


Yes, yes, I know that is not the issue.....I am asking on my behalf, I understand the DQ, and accept it. However, would the image have done as well scoring wise, with the background visible? Not sure, and we will never know, but was looking for some opinions on what some members viewed it now, with the re-edit, if there is a difference on their perspective.
03/28/2014 03:18:07 PM · #57
It's really not a fair comparison, Jen, since in the "legal" background version, the face also has a different edit on it. It is somehow paler, glowy-er. I happen to like seeing a bit of the bg because it gives it some context. But I don't like the more recent edit on the face.
03/28/2014 03:29:45 PM · #58
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/65000-69999/69668/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1107243.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/65000-69999/69668/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1107243.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I am posting this an example for future reference. I tried my best to get the exact same edit on the face for both images, and have the background different (the point is to study the background, not the re-edit on the face). I know there was a reference/question in this thread to provide an example so we can learn where that 'line' is. The first image would have been validated, and the second image was DQ'd for going beyond what is acceptable according to the SC.

Message edited by author 2014-03-28 18:14:19.
03/28/2014 03:34:07 PM · #59
I like the "legal" one better, myself. I mostly don't respond well to images with featureless backgrounds anyway: I like to see a little context, generally.
03/28/2014 03:44:12 PM · #60
What Bear said.
03/28/2014 03:50:47 PM · #61
What Johanna said
03/28/2014 05:04:14 PM · #62
I often agree with Robert and Johanna, but not this time. I like the 'not legal one' more but mostly because the background is not interesting and seems out of context with the portrait. I feel sorry for your DQ Jen, but I guess this could be the right interpretation. I also feel that some of the above mentioned images could be DQ'd.
03/28/2014 08:37:01 PM · #63
When I see this sort of DQ for "removing" the background too much. I always think back to an image where people were removed from a landscape image, and it was deemed that it wasn't a significant part of the image so it was allowed. Yet this one, because a "texture" of an insignificant background was blurred too much is Dq'd. I'm sorry you got a DQ Jen, doesn't seem like the right call to me.
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