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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Pope Francis advocates violent response to words
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01/15/2015 01:55:45 PM · #1
Well, I used to like him ok, but he just reminded me that he's still evil.

Pope Francis has just endorsed violence against those who insult religion. What a shame.

"it is also wrong to "provoke" people by belittling their religion." ... "If a friend "says a swear word against my mother, then a punch awaits him," Francis said. Vatican Radio reported that he then "gestured with a pretend punch" directed at the friend, Alberto Gasbarri

..

He may say he's against the violence, but that statement is a direct proof that he actually secretly supports the violence. He is apparently a man who would physically assault even his friends when they speak in a way he disagrees with. It is never, I repeat NEVER ok to respond to words with physical violence. EVER.

Message edited by author 2015-01-15 13:57:36.
01/15/2015 02:12:07 PM · #2
unless God tells you to.
01/15/2015 02:43:16 PM · #3
oi. and to think that not so long ago it was Jesus himself who was so offensive.
01/15/2015 03:10:46 PM · #4
Originally posted by Cory:


He may say he's against the violence, but that statement is a direct proof that he actually secretly supports the violence. He is apparently a man who would physically assault even his friends when they speak in a way he disagrees with. It is never, I repeat NEVER ok to respond to words with physical violence. EVER.


Or it may be that he meant nothing of the sort, that his actions support that he meant nothing of the sort, and that he doesn't "secretly" have some devious ulterior agenda...

01/15/2015 03:15:52 PM · #5
In an email, Vatican spokesman Thomas Rosica told CNN that "the Pope's expression is in no way intended to be interpreted" as somehow justifying last week's violence, and he pointed out that "the Pope has spoken out clearly against the terror and violence that occurred in Paris and in other parts of the world."

"The Pope's words about Dr. Gasbarri were spoken colloquially and in (a) friendly, intimate manner among colleagues and friends," Rosica said Thursday. "His response might be similar to something each of us has felt when those dearest to us are insulted or harmed."

Rosica explained Francis' remarks as consistent with his "free style of speech," a plainspoken and conversational approach that has earned him admirers. Such remarks "must be taken at face value and not distorted or manipulated," the Vatican spokesman said.

Notably, in the same conversation, Francis steadfastly denounced the terrorists' killings and the idea that anyone -- as the France attackers apparently did -- could pretend to justify such violence in the name of God.

"One cannot make war (or) kill in the name of one's own religion," Francis said on his way to the Philippines. "... To kill in the name of God is an aberration."
01/15/2015 03:28:02 PM · #6
im shocked, shocked! that a public figure would say one thing in public and another in private.
01/15/2015 03:51:26 PM · #7
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Such remarks "must be taken at face value ..."

To do so means the Pope would punch out his friend. Perhaps the spokesman's words should not be ... he was just (mis)using a cliché ...
01/15/2015 03:53:51 PM · #8
It sounds like he said he would pop someone that said anything bad about his mother in a manner that witnesses interpreted as a joke.

Clearly that means he is evil, he has a secret pro-violence agenda, and he endorses violence against those who insult religion. Also, it is obvious that we should discount all of the somewhat surprisingly level headed stuff he has said up to now.

Or, maybe we are reading a little too much into this one remark. Maybe.
01/15/2015 04:00:17 PM · #9
Originally posted by markwiley:

It sounds like he said he would pop someone that said anything bad about his mother in a manner that witnesses interpreted as a joke.

Clearly that means he is evil, he has a secret pro-violence agenda, and he endorses violence against those who insult religion. Also, it is obvious that we should discount all of the somewhat surprisingly level headed stuff he has said up to now.

Or, maybe we are reading a little too much into this one remark. Maybe.


I think the smallest slips are sometimes the most telling. This man claims to speak for God, do remember that. And I don't think he was quite serious about the thing, the Catholic church has seen corporeal punishment as a GREAT idea for a very long time. Still do to the best of my knowledge.

Message edited by author 2015-01-15 16:01:42.
01/15/2015 04:01:38 PM · #10
Yeah, but the according to the Bible God actually gives instruction for appropriate (and violent) retribution numerous times...
01/15/2015 04:03:01 PM · #11
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Yeah, but the according to the Bible God actually gives instruction for appropriate (and violent) retribution numerous times...


Which is pretty much evil. How many people did Satan kill in the bible? I don't know for sure, but I'm damned certain God's frag count is exponentially higher, and for the pettiest of things all too often as well.

The whole thing really could be called a death-cult without any stretch of the imagination.

Message edited by author 2015-01-15 16:04:09.
01/15/2015 04:13:06 PM · #12
Well it's about time God decided that slander is not a capital offense. Besides, you'd think if God was so offended the perpetrators would be struck by lightning or suffer some other example of divine displeasure -- He shouldn't need hired thugs or hit-men.

During 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire, there was a distilled spirits warehouse in the path of the fire which was going to be blown up (as part of creating a fire-break), but this disaster was averted by timely intervention by wiser heads, while at just about the same time the wind shifted and diverted the fire in another direction.

To paraphrase a poem published later, in response to suggestions in eastern papers that the quake was divine retribution for the city's immoral lifestyle:

They say that God destroyed the town
Because we were so frisky
Then why'd He burn the churches down
And only spared the whiskey?

Message edited by author 2015-01-15 16:14:01.
01/15/2015 04:13:30 PM · #13
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

In an email, Vatican spokesman Thomas Rosica told CNN that "the Pope's expression is in no way intended to be interpreted" as somehow justifying last week's violence, and he pointed out that "the Pope has spoken out clearly against the terror and violence that occurred in Paris and in other parts of the world."

"The Pope's words about Dr. Gasbarri were spoken colloquially and in (a) friendly, intimate manner among colleagues and friends," Rosica said Thursday. "His response might be similar to something each of us has felt when those dearest to us are insulted or harmed."

Rosica explained Francis' remarks as consistent with his "free style of speech," a plainspoken and conversational approach that has earned him admirers. Such remarks "must be taken at face value and not distorted or manipulated," the Vatican spokesman said.

Notably, in the same conversation, Francis steadfastly denounced the terrorists' killings and the idea that anyone -- as the France attackers apparently did -- could pretend to justify such violence in the name of God.

"One cannot make war (or) kill in the name of one's own religion," Francis said on his way to the Philippines. "... To kill in the name of God is an aberration."


But the killings in Paris weren't in the name of God, it was Allah the terrorists were praising.
01/15/2015 04:19:21 PM · #14
it would be awesome if humans let God deal out his own punishments instead of taking it upon themselves, surely he is capable?
01/15/2015 04:24:13 PM · #15
These thread certainly get off track pretty quickly.

Well, I'll go on the record to say that between the Pope being a secret militant despite a public life of peace and respect and Cory being a secret pacifist despite a public life of inflammation and shit stirring, I'm gonna have to side with the Pope and I'm not even Catholic (though I'm catholic)! :D
01/15/2015 04:47:48 PM · #16
Don't know about you, but I've had the rather unpleasant experience of hearing myself say something that I strongly reject or disagree with, and wondering what I was doing, and where that came from?
01/15/2015 04:57:29 PM · #17
I think it's pretty obvious the Pope was seeing things from all sides and trying to find common ground while still standing up for what is right. Despite the report, he's a genius at it. What he is saying is that we all understand what it is like to be deeply offended by something said about something we highly care about. It is natural that we wish to lash out to defend what we love. Even he would feel like bopping his best friend in the nose if he insulted his mother. However, war and killing in the name of God is not acceptable even though we feel like it is justified when we are the ones being trod upon.

Were it not for someone trying to "make a story" (be it on CNN or here on DPC), we would all have understood what he meant had we been there.

Message edited by author 2015-01-15 16:58:18.
01/15/2015 05:03:56 PM · #18
yes, of course that all makes sense. but it totally misses the occasion.

the intent was not to insult anyone's belief but point out the heinous acts committed in the name of such beliefs.

the tragedy is in not knowing the difference, the tragedy is in standing by, the tragedy is in unctuous words.
01/15/2015 05:04:21 PM · #19
Well, it might have been clearer if he's said something like "I would want to punch him in the nose, but I wouldn't because ..."
01/15/2015 05:59:10 PM · #20
The fact is that history has shown us that the church is particularly egregious about saying one thing and doing another. I'm not inclined to give them much benefit of the doubt here, especially given their history of violent oppression of any who oppose their ideology.

Nah, it's just business as usual over there I suspect, with a shiny new friendly face at the helm. (hey, didn't the bible say something about how charming and likable Satan would be?? Just sayin..) :D

And yes dammit, I do stir the pot, and am proud to do so, it's an important function.
01/15/2015 06:05:06 PM · #21
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Yeah, but the according to the Bible God actually gives instruction for appropriate (and violent) retribution numerous times...


Which is pretty much evil. How many people did Satan kill in the bible? I don't know for sure, but I'm damned certain God's frag count is exponentially higher, and for the pettiest of things all too often as well.

The whole thing really could be called a death-cult without any stretch of the imagination.


I answered my own question on this. According to some website (which of course you may refute, but their data looked good to me), the numbers stack out like this:

numbered killings estimated total killings
God 2,476,633 25 million
Satan 10 60

- See more at: //dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/who-has-killed-more-satan-or-god.html#sthash.0n9rXiVj.dpuf
01/15/2015 06:06:16 PM · #22
And lest my point have accidentally become unclear, it is this: Religion is bad, mmmkay. Don't do religion kids.
01/15/2015 06:26:49 PM · #23
And we defend your right to say so Cory! It may be the opinion of the ultra-cynic unsophisticate faction, but you, sir, have the right!
01/15/2015 06:38:27 PM · #24
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

And we defend your right to say so Cory! It may be the opinion of the ultra-cynic unsophisticate faction, but you, sir, have the right!


Who is this we you speak of? Certainly not the church.
01/15/2015 07:20:47 PM · #25
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Yeah, but the according to the Bible God actually gives instruction for appropriate (and violent) retribution numerous times...


Which is pretty much evil. How many people did Satan kill in the bible? I don't know for sure, but I'm damned certain God's frag count is exponentially higher, and for the pettiest of things all too often as well.

The whole thing really could be called a death-cult without any stretch of the imagination.


I find that people who have no use for religion often like to talk about the killing in the bible while either knowingly or unknowingly disregarding to include the fact that the people that the Israel were told to remove from the land engaged in horrible forms of false religious practices including sacrificing their own children to the god Dagon by putting the into a fire while still alive.
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