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05/15/2015 06:20:41 PM · #226
Originally posted by BrennanOB:


Ya I thought that was the nail in the coffin. Until it turns out that that term was used once in a text on Nov. 30, 2014. Had it been used once after the January 18th, 2015 meeting of the Pats and the Colts it would have been pretty damning proof. The Wells report certainly made it look like the use of the nickname was tied to the allegations, yet it was used months beforehand. By the way, they guy who is called "the deflator"-Jim McNally is the locker room attendant not the equipment manager (John Jastremski does that, the guy called The Inflator in the text chain).


A plausible explanation for the use is they have been doing this for a while. Perhaps not every game, but long enough to earn a nickname. The Colts had accused the Patriots of doing this previously.

I thought this was a good article, especially on the statistics of the pressure readings in the last half.

Finally, I have to ask what possible motivation the NFL would have to falsely railroad one of their premier teams AND one of their most famous players? It makes zero sense, especially in a year when the NFL already has a black eye over other "scandals".

Message edited by author 2015-05-15 18:34:42.
05/15/2015 06:42:07 PM · #227
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Finally, I have to ask what possible motivation the NFL would have to falsely railroad one of their premier teams AND one of their most famous players? It makes zero sense, especially in a year when the NFL already has a black eye over other "scandals".

This is what I keep coming back to. This is the last thing the NFL would want. Kraft was Goodell's largest supporter, even through his mishandling of the Rice thing. They were very close. Brady (and Peyton) is the cleanest, shiniest example of an NFL role model. This is their champion, the winner of the super bowl, a game -- if you believe that recent poll -- nearly half of NFL fans now consider tainted. There is no reason at all the NFL would want to pursue this if it weren't real, and I'm even surprised they have anyway.
05/15/2015 08:55:09 PM · #228
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Finally, I have to ask what possible motivation the NFL would have to falsely railroad one of their premier teams AND one of their most famous players? It makes zero sense, especially in a year when the NFL already has a black eye over other "scandals".


Absolutely, and this is why I was so certain there had to be something very real going on, but if you read the Wells report it is not supported by the facts they present.

I have no idea what the possible motivations are, but that which is presented by the NFL as the factual basis of these penalties are clearly a biased view of the facts at hand with a view to pushing through some penalties rather than an unbiased look at what actually happened. I have no doubt that the Patriots sought to have the balls inflated to the low end of the allowable range, but there is no evidence in the report that makes it clear that those balls were outside legal standards when they were measured inside the equipment room, as per rules. The argument that there must be something going on for the NFL to pursue penalties against a team is just that, an argument. Arguments must be supported by facts, and I read no clear facts in the Wells report, but I did read a great many slanted opinions stated as facts (the noble gas laws being the most glaring, but that sort of biased view was present thorough out the report) that could not be supported by evidence.
05/15/2015 08:58:47 PM · #229
My summary so far ...
Gas: yes
Noble: no
05/15/2015 09:01:35 PM · #230
Originally posted by DrAchoo:



Finally, I have to ask what possible motivation the NFL would have to falsely railroad one of their premier teams AND one of their most famous players? It makes zero sense, especially in a year when the NFL already has a black eye over other "scandals".


This is something called `Throwing someone under the bus`.

It makes the party involved look good, gives the impression that wrongdoings are being addressed, that zero tolerance is the norm and is probably one of the best mechanisms to deflect attention from your own failings.

Happens all the time in politics.

That`s just my opinion and is not based on any demonstrable facts. :O)

Ray
05/16/2015 10:41:05 AM · #231
Originally posted by BrennanOB:



I have no idea what the possible motivations are,


society in general likes to see those on top fall. The patriots are at the top and people have never gotten over spygate and just can't fathom that the Brady's Patriots might actually be one of if not the greatest team the NFL has ever seen, so they assume they cheat. Goodell stuck his head out the window, sampled the fan and media reaction and accommodated it.

Goodells policy all along on discipline has been flimsy and he gave the fans what they wanted to win back their favor, but even this is blowing up in his face.

Message edited by author 2015-05-16 10:42:22.
05/19/2015 03:21:25 PM · #232
To the outraged consternation of sportscasters and fans in New England, the Patriots have decided not to file an appeal against the team-related penalties, because nothing says innocence like demanding a public apology, meeting privately with your accuser, and then accepting your penalty.

Brady will still appeal.
05/19/2015 03:57:52 PM · #233
Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by BrennanOB:



I have no idea what the possible motivations are,


society in general likes to see those on top fall. The patriots are at the top and people have never gotten over spygate and just can't fathom that the Brady's Patriots might actually be one of if not the greatest team the NFL has ever seen, so they assume they cheat. Goodell stuck his head out the window, sampled the fan and media reaction and accommodated it.

Goodells policy all along on discipline has been flimsy and he gave the fans what they wanted to win back their favor, but even this is blowing up in his face.


Blowing up in whose face? If anything, it's an acknowledgement of what everyone has known for a long time; the Pats cheat.
05/19/2015 06:21:51 PM · #234
Originally posted by Spork99:


Blowing up in whose face? If anything, it's an acknowledgement of what everyone has known for a long time; the Pats cheat.


I said it before and I will say it again... if there is proof LET`S SEE IT.

So far Nada. Easy to render a decision when you are the judge, jury and executioner.

Anyone in favour of an independant review process... probably not the NFL.

Ray
05/19/2015 06:44:57 PM · #235
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Spork99:


Blowing up in whose face? If anything, it's an acknowledgement of what everyone has known for a long time; the Pats cheat.


I said it before and I will say it again... if there is proof LET`S SEE IT.

So far Nada. Easy to render a decision when you are the judge, jury and executioner.

Anyone in favour of an independant review process... probably not the NFL.

Ray


You probably need proof that the sky is blue.
05/19/2015 07:32:16 PM · #236
Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by BrennanOB:



I have no idea what the possible motivations are,


society in general likes to see those on top fall. The patriots are at the top and people have never gotten over spygate and just can't fathom that the Brady's Patriots might actually be one of if not the greatest team the NFL has ever seen, so they assume they cheat. Goodell stuck his head out the window, sampled the fan and media reaction and accommodated it.

Goodells policy all along on discipline has been flimsy and he gave the fans what they wanted to win back their favor, but even this is blowing up in his face.


Blowing up in whose face? If anything, it's an acknowledgement of what everyone has known for a long time; the Pats cheat.


wait and see, the Brady suspension gets reversed or dropped altogether. The pats pulled their suit for a reason.
05/19/2015 07:34:18 PM · #237
Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by BrennanOB:



I have no idea what the possible motivations are,


society in general likes to see those on top fall. The patriots are at the top and people have never gotten over spygate and just can't fathom that the Brady's Patriots might actually be one of if not the greatest team the NFL has ever seen, so they assume they cheat. Goodell stuck his head out the window, sampled the fan and media reaction and accommodated it.

Goodells policy all along on discipline has been flimsy and he gave the fans what they wanted to win back their favor, but even this is blowing up in his face.


Blowing up in whose face? If anything, it's an acknowledgement of what everyone has known for a long time; the Pats cheat.


wait and see, the Brady suspension gets reversed or dropped altogether. The pats pulled their suit for a reason.

Bingo!
05/19/2015 10:04:14 PM · #238
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by BrennanOB:



I have no idea what the possible motivations are,


society in general likes to see those on top fall. The patriots are at the top and people have never gotten over spygate and just can't fathom that the Brady's Patriots might actually be one of if not the greatest team the NFL has ever seen, so they assume they cheat. Goodell stuck his head out the window, sampled the fan and media reaction and accommodated it.

Goodells policy all along on discipline has been flimsy and he gave the fans what they wanted to win back their favor, but even this is blowing up in his face.


Blowing up in whose face? If anything, it's an acknowledgement of what everyone has known for a long time; the Pats cheat.


wait and see, the Brady suspension gets reversed or dropped altogether. The pats pulled their suit for a reason.

Bingo!


Ha! right. They knew they'd lose an appeal. Regardless of what happens with Brady, they're still cheaters.
05/20/2015 12:06:31 AM · #239
They and all the rest of the NFL, sure. EVERY SINGLE TEAM CHEATS! It's documented. It's proved!
05/20/2015 05:33:13 AM · #240
Originally posted by chazoe:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Spork99:


Blowing up in whose face? If anything, it's an acknowledgement of what everyone has known for a long time; the Pats cheat.


I said it before and I will say it again... if there is proof LET`S SEE IT.

So far Nada. Easy to render a decision when you are the judge, jury and executioner.

Anyone in favour of an independant review process... probably not the NFL.

Ray


You probably need proof that the sky is blue.


Just so you know, contrary to what you are suggesting, the sky is not always blue. In these parts, on very cloudy days and late at night...not so much.

Nice to know just how well informed you are though... thanks for playing.

Ray

Message edited by author 2015-05-20 05:36:30.
05/20/2015 07:14:32 AM · #241
Did you know the ancient Greeks didn't even have a WORD for blue? Never shows up in their writings. Most often the sky's described as "white" and the sea as "dark"... Just sayin'... Back to your scandal now, guys :-)
05/20/2015 08:06:16 AM · #242
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

They and all the rest of the NFL, sure. EVERY SINGLE TEAM CHEATS! It's documented. It's proved!


Really? That's funny... Why have any rules at all?
05/20/2015 08:33:39 AM · #243
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Spork99:


Blowing up in whose face? If anything, it's an acknowledgement of what everyone has known for a long time; the Pats cheat.


I said it before and I will say it again... if there is proof LET`S SEE IT.

So far Nada. Easy to render a decision when you are the judge, jury and executioner.

Anyone in favour of an independant review process... probably not the NFL.

Ray


Why Ray? If this were a criminal case, sure. Only it's not. It's a ruling from a sports league. As part of being in the NFL, the teams agreed to be subject to the processes of the league, as biased and/or ill conceived as they might be and not something you cook up to your own liking. If the team doesn't like the rules under which they operate, ask that they be changed, go play arena football or switch to flag football. If you don't like it, tell the league.

You've repeatedly confused the legal system with the league rules. They're different.

Message edited by author 2015-05-20 12:09:56.
05/20/2015 09:59:30 AM · #244
How does THIS not seem more entertaining?

Originally posted by Spork99:

go play arena football or switch to flag football.
05/20/2015 01:03:41 PM · #245
Originally posted by Spork99:

You've repeatedly confused the legal system with the league rules. They're different.


Trust me when I say this, I most definitely am not confusing league rules with the legal system, but as things currently stand, the decision rendered in this instance would definitely be worthy of something one would find in a "Kangaroo Court".

When one takes into consideration the financial impact that this will have on both Tom Brady and the Patriots, I would not be surprised in the least if this matter does not land in a "Real" court of law.

Time will tell.

Ray
05/20/2015 01:12:56 PM · #246
The Other Sacred Thing Tom Brady Squashed: Sportsmanship

Originally posted by Linked article by Frank Deford:

So even if it was no more than an illegal puff of air that was willfully, with foresight, removed from the Patriot footballs with Tom Brady's direction or mere acquiescence Brady is guilty of purposely defiling the very artifacts that make the game fair and square. It is not enough to say that everybody cheats a little or, 'Well, gee, there wasn't all that much difference in the balls,' or that people are picking on the poor Patriots.

Games are played by naturally gifted people using authorized equipment. If either is illegally distorted, it's not just a crime against the game but a wound to the whole essence of sport.
05/20/2015 01:16:04 PM · #247
Originally posted by RayEthier:

When one takes into consideration the financial impact that this will have on both Tom Brady and the Patriots ...

The financial impact on Tom Brady will be about what I make in ten years -- if he can't withstand that, then he's been getting pretty poor investment advice. The Patriots make a profit. This year they'll make a slightly smaller profit. Tough.
05/20/2015 01:40:00 PM · #248
Speaking of income inequality... Why haven't the Patriots stood up for the equipment guys? The NFL instructed them to suspend them without pay because of the same exact Wells report findings. So the team is innocent, Brady is innocent, but these two guys... who cares. In fact, in their defense of Brady and the team, they made public previously unpublished texts from these guys to thoroughly ruin them and permanently embarrass the one guy's wife. Classy.
05/20/2015 01:52:18 PM · #249
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Spork99:

You've repeatedly confused the legal system with the league rules. They're different.


Trust me when I say this, I most definitely am not confusing league rules with the legal system, but as things currently stand, the decision rendered in this instance would definitely be worthy of something one would find in a "Kangaroo Court".

When one takes into consideration the financial impact that this will have on both Tom Brady and the Patriots, I would not be surprised in the least if this matter does not land in a "Real" court of law.

Time will tell.

Ray


If you know the difference, what continually compels you to conflate them?

Boo Hoo for poor Cheatin' Tom Brady...he got caught and he'll lose a few dollars.

05/20/2015 01:59:26 PM · #250
Maybe it IS unfair to penalize Brady alone -- it is after all a team sport, and the center (at least) must have known something was up (or down) ... perhaps instead of suspending the QB for four games, the Patriots could simply be assessed a 15-yard Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty at the start of each possession....

(do you think I needed to include the <sarcasm> tags?)
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