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05/12/2015 02:47:21 PM · #151
My NY Giants picked up Shane Vereen the running back from the Pats.
Maybe he can teach the Giants some tricks. :)
05/12/2015 02:54:23 PM · #152
Originally posted by nygold:

My NY Giants picked up Shane Vereen the running back from the Pats.
Maybe he can teach the Giants some tricks. :)


The Giants don't need any help beating the Patsies.
05/12/2015 02:55:02 PM · #153
Originally posted by chazoe:

Originally posted by nygold:

My NY Giants picked up Shane Vereen the running back from the Pats.
Maybe he can teach the Giants some tricks. :)


The Giants don't need any help beating the Patsies.


True dat!!
05/12/2015 02:58:56 PM · #154
Ahhhhhh.... Good times, good times.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/150000-154999/153814/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1149732.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/150000-154999/153814/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1149732.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
05/12/2015 02:59:19 PM · #155
we just need to learn how to beat to stupid eagles.
05/12/2015 03:18:22 PM · #156
Originally posted by Mike:

we just need to learn how to beat to stupid eagles.
you guys need to learn how to convince Eli that every game is the SB.

Eli and Peyton are polar opposites. Go Broncos BTW
05/12/2015 05:00:29 PM · #157
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Ray, an investigation was conducted and the conclusion was that there is "demonstrable proof" that they cheated.

You may disagree with the degree and distribution of culpability, and method of punishment, but I don't think there should be much argument over the basic premise.



Could you provide me with a link to anything that says exactly that. I have looked and not found it. What I did find was that "New England Patriots employees likely deflated footballs used in the AFC Championship and that quarterback Tom Brady was "at least generally aware" of the rules violations.

That is a far cry from "Demonstrable Proof".

Ray
05/12/2015 05:06:17 PM · #158
Anyone who can't see that Brady was involved in this is either blinded by fandom or just being obtuse.
05/12/2015 05:06:33 PM · #159
This is NOT the court of law. They are company rules HUGE difference.
05/12/2015 05:57:16 PM · #160
Originally posted by nygold:

This is NOT the court of law. They are company rules HUGE difference.

I donno about that; you can say I was embezzling from petty cash and use it as an excuse to fire me, but if I sue you for wrongful termination, you'd better be able to back it up...
05/12/2015 06:34:36 PM · #161
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by nygold:

This is NOT the court of law. They are company rules HUGE difference.

I donno about that; you can say I was embezzling from petty cash and use it as an excuse to fire me, but if I sue you for wrongful termination, you'd better be able to back it up...


First off termination and suspensions are two different animals.

If you were using the company car for personal use and swore up and down to your boss that you didn't and your boss had emails that said you were going to do it and they saw you in the Walmart parking lot with it on a Saturday, you will probably be suspension an extra day or two for the lies.
Now you have the right to file a grievance but now it's up to YOU to prove your innocence.

Brady will get his chance when he faces the arbitrator, they he will cry, piss, & moan and they will knock it down to 2 games.
05/12/2015 07:31:05 PM · #162
Originally posted by nygold:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by nygold:

This is NOT the court of law. They are company rules HUGE difference.

I donno about that; you can say I was embezzling from petty cash and use it as an excuse to fire me, but if I sue you for wrongful termination, you'd better be able to back it up...


First off termination and suspensions are two different animals.

If you were using the company car for personal use and swore up and down to your boss that you didn't and your boss had emails that said you were going to do it and they saw you in the Walmart parking lot with it on a Saturday, you will probably be suspension an extra day or two for the lies.
Now you have the right to file a grievance but now it's up to YOU to prove your innocence.

Brady will get his chance when he faces the arbitrator, they he will cry, piss, & moan and they will knock it down to 2 games.


Interesting that you would make reference to demonstrable intent and then actual proof to support your example, something that is sorely lacking in the suppositions made against the Patriots.

I am convinced that both Brady and the team will appeal and that the following scenario will see possibly both parties suing the league. In the latter scenario, I do hope that the league has something other than mere suppositions to support their claim.

Ray

Message edited by author 2015-05-12 19:31:46.
05/12/2015 07:56:09 PM · #163
The text messages tell you all you need to know about the equipment guys. LOGIC tells you all you need to know about Brady. "The Deflator" and his buddy were not doing this on their own, and there is no way that an NFL QB isn't going to know that the ball pressure is too low.
05/12/2015 08:01:27 PM · #164
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by nygold:

This is NOT the court of law. They are company rules HUGE difference.

I donno about that; you can say I was embezzling from petty cash and use it as an excuse to fire me, but if I sue you for wrongful termination, you'd better be able to back it up...


If I was Brady I wouldn't give up my personal phone either. You say I broke the rules? Prove it. I'm not contributing. The nfl doesn't have supeona power. They want to give a harsher punishment? Fine. I'll appeal. The wells report says "more likely than not". That's a far cry from guilty.

This whole thing is a witchhunt and it sets a bad precedent.

I didn't see anywhere in the report where he told the ball boys to let out more air than the 12.5 threshold. For all we know he told the guys to let out some air down to 12.5. Tampering with thr balls? Sure but it might not have been below the legal limit. There were a quite a few texts how the refs "screwed" them with balls that were very inflated.

The nfl didn't care about this until they saw it as an oppurtunuty. The refs never noticed a problem and they touch the balls on every play.

05/12/2015 08:17:02 PM · #165
The Patriots failed to cooperate with the investigation at every step, failing to act with candor and failing to allow access to the deflator ball boy.

What lack of evidence and supposition is everyone talking about? There are admissions from the Patriots, statements implicating Brady, and he fails to offer evidence to the contrary.

You can argue over the penalties, but it is pretty settled that they, meaning the organization and Brady did it. Cheated. Even the Patriots and Brady are going to appeal the penalties, not claim they were innocent.
05/12/2015 09:08:14 PM · #166
Still haven`t seen any proof... a lot of speculation but no tangible evidence.

I have a phone and unless someone has a warrant they are not going to get their mitts on it. My private messages are just that ... Private.

You can scream lack of cooperation all you want, but there is no requirement whatsoever in either criminal or civil law that requires anyone to cooperate with an investigation and it would be sheer folly to do so.

Ray
05/12/2015 09:13:44 PM · #167
Originally posted by blindjustice:

The Patriots failed to cooperate with the investigation at every step, failing to act with candor and failing to allow access to the deflator ball boy.

What lack of evidence and supposition is everyone talking about? There are admissions from the Patriots, statements implicating Brady, and he fails to offer evidence to the contrary.

You can argue over the penalties, but it is pretty settled that they, meaning the organization and Brady did it. Cheated. Even the Patriots and Brady are going to appeal the penalties, not claim they were innocent.


Your comments seem to run counter to the NFL`s statement released on January 23rd, 2015 where one can find the following: ``Upon being advised of the investigation, the Patriots promptly pledged their full cooperation and have made their personnel and other information available to us upon request. Our investigation will seek information from any and all relevant sources and we expect full cooperation from other clubs as well. As we develop more information and are in a position to reach conclusions, we will share them publicly.``

If you have something different, please share with us.

Ray

05/12/2015 09:30:45 PM · #168
So I am not a Brady fan at all but I think something is wrong when the NFL gives Tom Brady a 4 game suspension, the Pats their draft picks, and a 1 Million dollar fine for deflated balls and only gives Ray Rice a 2 game suspension for aggravated assault and domestic violence...just my two cents.
05/12/2015 09:30:57 PM · #169
they cheated, the title should be stripped, they didn't win. because they cheated. but no. just a slap.

what that tells me about the NFL - is don't let your kids watch it.

appeals aside. if the patriots cheated. they shouldn't have a win on their tally. kids deserve heros that are real. not bloated, protected, and selfish.

05/12/2015 09:31:39 PM · #170
That's kind of the problem, Ray. They said they were going to cooperate... and then didn't. "The Deflator" was asked for follow-up interviews and the Patriots' lawyers refused. Ever since those texts came out they've denied access to him. That's not really cooperating.

Balls were checked and approved by NFL officials. Balls were then taken into a restroom by a guy previously nicknamed "The Deflator." Balls are then under-inflated. If you don't agree with that series of events, Ray, then there's no sense in having this debate.

You can argue that the penalty is wrong, and I agree (I think the Patriots organization should be penalized fully, not an individual player), but if you don't believe that the Patriots even did it then there's nothing to talk about.
05/12/2015 09:32:35 PM · #171
Originally posted by soup:

they cheated, the title should be stripped, they didn't win. because they cheated. but no. just a slap.

what that tells me about the NFL - is don't let your kids watch it.

appeals aside. if the patriots cheated. they shouldn't have a win on their tally. kids deserve heros that are real. not bloated, protected, and selfish.

Exactly.
05/12/2015 09:39:52 PM · #172
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by blindjustice:

The Patriots failed to cooperate with the investigation at every step, failing to act with candor and failing to allow access to the deflator ball boy.

What lack of evidence and supposition is everyone talking about? There are admissions from the Patriots, statements implicating Brady, and he fails to offer evidence to the contrary.

You can argue over the penalties, but it is pretty settled that they, meaning the organization and Brady did it. Cheated. Even the Patriots and Brady are going to appeal the penalties, not claim they were innocent.


Your comments seem to run counter to the NFL`s statement released on January 23rd, 2015 where one can find the following: ``Upon being advised of the investigation, the Patriots promptly pledged their full cooperation and have made their personnel and other information available to us upon request. Our investigation will seek information from any and all relevant sources and we expect full cooperation from other clubs as well. As we develop more information and are in a position to reach conclusions, we will share them publicly.``

If you have something different, please share with us.

Ray


There's a big difference between "pledging" full cooperation, and actually providing it.
05/12/2015 09:41:59 PM · #173
Originally posted by Frakster:

So I am not a Brady fan at all but I think something is wrong when the NFL gives Tom Brady a 4 game suspension, the Pats their draft picks, and a 1 Million dollar fine for deflated balls and only gives Ray Rice a 2 game suspension for aggravated assault and domestic violence...just my two cents.


Rice's initial 2 game ban was nonsense (and I say that as a Ravens fan). However, he was eventually banned for the entire season.

Message edited by author 2015-05-12 21:42:49.
05/13/2015 07:00:56 AM · #174
Originally posted by LN13:

There's a big difference between "pledging" full cooperation, and actually providing it.


Just as there is a monumental amount of difference between "inference" and "irrefutable proof".

This works both ways doesn't it?

Ray
05/13/2015 08:13:28 AM · #175
Originally posted by bohemka:

...if you don't believe that the Patriots even did it then there's nothing to talk about.


Surely you understand that "believing" is not a measure of reality in a court of law.

Lots of people believe things that are not real and cannot be proved, and in this instance I find it unbelievable that the NFL would dole out such a harsh penalty based on nothing more than suppositions.

If there was concrete proof, then my perspective on this matter would be totally different, but so far I have not seen anything tangible.

Ray
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