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05/13/2015 08:23:45 AM · #176
What does a court of law have to do with this?
05/13/2015 08:56:39 AM · #177
Funny how much this "challenge suggestion" has people talking. Honestly, this is a distraction. A red herring ...
05/13/2015 09:35:08 AM · #178
Tom Brady did not break the law the NFL is accusing him of using "conduct detrimental to the integrity of the NFL".

05/13/2015 09:49:30 AM · #179
Are they going to court over this? The last I heard, this was being handled by the NFL, should there be a criminal investigation or one party sues the other, then we should definitely discuss legal courts, but until then it's irrelevant.


Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by bohemka:

...if you don't believe that the Patriots even did it then there's nothing to talk about.


Surely you understand that "believing" is not a measure of reality in a court of law.

Lots of people believe things that are not real and cannot be proved, and in this instance I find it unbelievable that the NFL would dole out such a harsh penalty based on nothing more than suppositions.

If there was concrete proof, then my perspective on this matter would be totally different, but so far I have not seen anything tangible.

Ray
05/13/2015 02:08:17 PM · #180
Originally posted by chazoe:

What does a court of law have to do with this?


I would say a boatload when the parties involved sue the league.

Ray
05/13/2015 02:36:10 PM · #181
NFL investigator says he found direct evidence against Brady

Originally posted by Linked Article:

Wells said his findings would have been strong enough to convince a jury under the "preponderance of evidence" standard, which is used in many civil cases.

...

"What drove the decision in this report is one thing: It was the evidence," Wells said. "I could not ethically ignore the import and relevancy of those text messages and the other evidence."

Wells specifically mentioned two series of text exchanges between officials' locker room attendant Jim McNally and equipment assistant John Jastremski. In one, McNally referred to himself as "the Deflator" and joked about going to ESPN. In another, Jastremski mentioned speaking to Brady the previous night, saying the quarterback knew McNally was stressed out by needing to deflate the balls.

"That is not circumstantial evidence," Wells said. "That is two of the participants in a scheme discussing what has taken place."
05/13/2015 03:19:33 PM · #182
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by chazoe:

What does a court of law have to do with this?


I would say a boatload when the parties involved sue the league.

Ray


Have they done that? No. And they won't either.

The reason this won't go to court is that the question of proof and evidence in any specific case doesn't matter. If the league determines a violation, they have the right to sanction, at their discretion, anyone involved. The teams and players have already agreed to that beforehand.
05/13/2015 07:57:17 PM · #183
Ray's just mad that his team only has three downs to get it 10 yards instead of four.
05/13/2015 08:59:06 PM · #184
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Ray's just mad that his team only has three downs to get it 10 yards instead of four.

Yeah, but don't you have the opportunity to throw a 109 yard touchdown pass? Brady will never get to do that ...
05/14/2015 01:34:17 AM · #185
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Ray's just mad that his team only has three downs to get it 10 yards instead of four.


Oh yeah, well our game is much easier to understand. Run, pass attempt, punt and we have the chance to score a single for failing a field goal... how cool is that.

Did I mention our balls are bigger. :O)

Ray
05/14/2015 09:41:47 AM · #186
This article pretty much covers, in good detail, my feelings about the whole matter.
05/14/2015 12:42:48 PM · #187
ok, now its getting absurd. I mean the whole thing is absurd, but now the pats are making it a farce. Ok it was a farce but now it's silly, actually its was silly to begin with, now its just... nevermind

05/14/2015 01:02:25 PM · #188
Uh huh. Sure.
05/14/2015 01:11:55 PM · #189
Originally posted by LN13:

Uh huh. Sure.


that's what i was talking about :P
05/14/2015 01:24:39 PM · #190
It's a game. I don't get how people get so wrapped up in their teams, especially using inclusive pronouns in referring to them. Like when people will say, "We didn't get a win today, but next week in Dallas..." Really? You're a guy working in an office, you're not a player, you're not the team owner and your not even the ball pumper. If anything, to the team, you're a revenue source, a customer expressing hyperactive brand loyalty.
05/14/2015 01:24:50 PM · #191
Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by LN13:

Uh huh. Sure.


that's what i was talking about :P


I figured as much. The sad part is, the sycophant Brady and Patriot fans are going to buy it.

05/14/2015 01:46:19 PM · #192
Ok- its not the biggest thing in the world. But neither is taking growth hormone a bit in 1998. The same people who route for the patriots and think all this is BS are the same that sit in Fenway and jeer at rival players accused of Steroid use,(as big Papi, down 50lbs and more than .50 batting average ironically looks on...)

and Ray, are you still claiming the Patriots were "assisting and cooperating" with the investigation? jeez.

Rice has zero to do with it. Don't compare the penalties. Extracurricular crimes, as sickening as they are, don't impugn the credibility of the game like cheating does.

The real penalty here is the draft pick loss.
05/14/2015 02:17:08 PM · #193
Originally posted by Spork99:

It's a game. I don't get how people get so wrapped up in their teams, especially using inclusive pronouns in referring to them. Like when people will say, "We didn't get a win today, but next week in Dallas..." Really? You're a guy working in an office, you're not a player, you're not the team owner and your not even the ball pumper. If anything, to the team, you're a revenue source, a customer expressing hyperactive brand loyalty.


Take the fan out of the game and what do you have?

Nothing but chirping crickets.
05/14/2015 02:19:23 PM · #194
I'm waiting for Shannon to weigh in on how the NFL report was obviously wrong... ;)
05/14/2015 02:23:09 PM · #195
Originally posted by nygold:



Take the fan out of the game and what do you have?



The Jacksonville Jaguars?

Or the Baltimore Orioles, two days after a riot?
05/14/2015 02:43:48 PM · #196
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'm waiting for Shannon to weigh in on how the NFL report was obviously wrong... ;)


I can't speak for Shannon, but I have yet to see anything close to resembling demonstrable evidence. A lot of suppositions, allegations, inuendos and assumptions, but proof... not so much.

Ray
05/14/2015 02:55:30 PM · #197
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'm waiting for Shannon to weigh in on how the NFL report was obviously wrong... ;)


I can't speak for Shannon, but I have yet to see anything close to resembling demonstrable evidence. A lot of suppositions, allegations, inuendos and assumptions, but proof... not so much.

Ray


Is that what's really needed?
I read an article today about a man who was released from prison after 29 years , the only evidence they had was he was pointed out in a line up.
Turns out after all these years they had the wrong guy.

You don't need to be a lawyer to figure out deflate gate just use some common sense.
05/14/2015 03:02:32 PM · #198
Best part of this whole mess is the text transcripts between the equipment guys. Some truly great Mass townie-talk there.
05/14/2015 03:03:30 PM · #199
Originally posted by nygold:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'm waiting for Shannon to weigh in on how the NFL report was obviously wrong... ;)


I can't speak for Shannon, but I have yet to see anything close to resembling demonstrable evidence. A lot of suppositions, allegations, inuendos and assumptions, but proof... not so much.

Ray


Is that what's really needed?
I read an article today about a man who was released from prison after 29 years , the only evidence they had was he was pointed out in a line up.
Turns out after all these years they had the wrong guy.

You don't need to be a lawyer to figure out deflate gate just use some common sense.


There's nothing there! Jim McNally is just FAT! It's all a big misunderstanding!
05/14/2015 03:19:17 PM · #200
Originally posted by nygold:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I'm waiting for Shannon to weigh in on how the NFL report was obviously wrong... ;)


I can't speak for Shannon, but I have yet to see anything close to resembling demonstrable evidence. A lot of suppositions, allegations, inuendos and assumptions, but proof... not so much.

Ray


Is that what's really needed?
I read an article today about a man who was released from prison after 29 years , the only evidence they had was he was pointed out in a line up.
Turns out after all these years they had the wrong guy.

You don't need to be a lawyer to figure out deflate gate just use some common sense.


here is the problem, the Well's report took information and may or may not have presented it objectively. the report says "more likely than not" and it uses text messages and a lack of cooperation to come to that conclusion. Now the particular conversations they chose can be interpreted a certain way but its hardly conclusive. The whole thing is rife with speculation.

I'll say it again, are they guilty of tampering with the balls? likely, did they violate the pressure rule? very inconclusive. there inst one item of concrete proof in the report they deflated the balls to below the limit.

now before you guys run and claim tampering should be punished, there was a game just last season, the two teams were heating the footballs on the sidelines, last time i checked, that's tampering with the footballs, no suspension or fines were given out, they were merely told to knock it off. how is this any different?
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