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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> LETS CALL OUT PPL VOTING 1's & 2's ON GREAT PHOTOS
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07/02/2018 11:44:53 PM · #1
Originally posted by Neil:

My feeling is this:

1) if you give a photo a 1 or 2, you are essentially giving the photographer an F grade.

Very few of the photos, if any, on this site deserve an "F".

2) If you give a photographer an "F", on a decent photo, you

a) discourage them from entering challenges
b) send them off to another site, where an average or better than average score gets an average or better than average reception
c) begrudge them, perhaps into scoring others lower

I see some of this by genre. A person doesn't care for a genre, and they score it very low, maybe 1 or 2. Or for that matter 3. Which is essentially a "D" score. If you are not interested in a genre, or find it boring, don't vote for that photo. Others may be interested in that genre.

3) If you give a low score based on genre, what happens is you chase people who do like that genre away from DPC.

Think about all of the above when you vote next time. It doesn't hurt to be a bit generous in your votes. The rankings will still work. Everyone will feel a bit better.

If you really want to help the photographer improve, don't do it by giving them a lower than deserved score, give them a well thought out critique.

That would make DPC a much better place.


What Neil said.
07/02/2018 09:32:53 PM · #2
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

... The way I look at it, my job is to RATE the photos on how wonderful (or not) I find them to be. I pay no heed to "ranking" them. Ranking is something that happens when all the votes are cast and tallied and aggregated...


Exactly my method. Simple as that. This has always been my interpretation of the instructions for voting.
07/02/2018 04:55:47 PM · #3
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:



' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', '/') + 1) . ' EVERYBODY must get stoned! ' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', '/') + 1) . '


' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/50000-54999/50231/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1217702.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/50000-54999/50231/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1217702.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
07/02/2018 04:18:58 PM · #4
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', '/') + 1) . ' ...and they'll stone ya when you try to vote a 1 ' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', '/') + 1) . '

You left out the last line (the refrain) ...

I refrained. It sounds too demanding.

Yes, but more egalitarian ...

LOL, true, true. Ok.

' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', '/') + 1) . ' EVERYBODY must get stoned! ' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', '/') + 1) . '
07/02/2018 03:28:09 PM · #5
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', '/') + 1) . ' ...and they'll stone ya when you try to vote a 1 ' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', '/') + 1) . '

You left out the last line (the refrain) ...

I refrained. It sounds too demanding.

Yes, but more egalitarian ...
07/02/2018 03:17:46 PM · #6
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', '/') + 1) . ' ...and they'll stone ya when you try to vote a 1 ' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', '/') + 1) . '

You left out the last line (the refrain) ...

I refrained. It sounds too demanding.
07/02/2018 02:48:25 PM · #7
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', '/') + 1) . ' ...and they'll stone ya when you try to vote a 1 ' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', '/') + 1) . '

You left out the last line (the refrain) ...
07/02/2018 02:42:22 PM · #8
' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music3.gif', '/') + 1) . ' ...and they'll stone ya when you try to vote a 1 ' . substr('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', strrpos('//www.artroflmao.com/misc/music4.gif', '/') + 1) . '
07/02/2018 02:20:01 PM · #9
Originally posted by tnun:

why don't we just stone people with extreme voting patterns?

Stone me! ;)
07/02/2018 01:21:04 PM · #10
Originally posted by tnun:

why don't we just stone people with extreme voting patterns?


' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/50000-54999/50231/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1217702.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/50000-54999/50231/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1217702.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
07/02/2018 01:06:06 PM · #11
why don't we just stone people with extreme voting patterns?
07/02/2018 12:12:47 PM · #12
Originally posted by Neil:

My feeling is this:

1) if you give a photo a 1 or 2, you are essentially giving the photographer an [insert analogy with emotional/psychological baggage].

Very few of the photos, if any, on this site deserve an [insert analogy with emotional/psychological baggage].

2) If you give a [project analogy onto everyone else] an [insert analogy with emotional/psychological baggage], on a decent photo, you

a) discourage them from entering challenges
b) send them off to another site, where an average or better than average score gets an average or better than average reception
c) begrudge them, perhaps into scoring others lower

07/02/2018 11:36:22 AM · #13
I have run this over in my head, and I have to believe the premise that a good score at the end of a challenge, or a ribbon, does not make the picture universally good- it only makes it popular.

So if you change the topic to "Let's call out people who vote 1's and 2's on POPULAR photos" that is MORE truthful, and LESS defensible.

Message edited by author 2018-07-02 11:36:42.
07/02/2018 09:37:05 AM · #14
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Here's the 'Rules' we all live by on this site. Good read if you haven't been there in a while. Covers pretty much this entire conversation.


"You must: rate entries on a scale of 1 to 10. A score of 1 is a "bad" photo, and a score of 10 is a "good" photo"

No room for interpretation there. Is it bad, or is it good? lol
07/02/2018 08:46:39 AM · #15
Originally posted by bjoern:

I don't understand why there is such a big problem with the few low votes sometimes (and generally there really are only a few, if any, on winning images). Instead of whining about the few, why not just be enthused by the many appreciating votes and skip thinking about the low ones?

On this, I completely agree with you. I was just doing a little dueling-voting-philosophy with ya. The way I look at it, my job is to RATE the photos on how wonderful (or not) I find them to be. I pay no heed to "ranking" them. Ranking is something that happens when all the votes are cast and tallied and aggregated...

I am probably belaboring the point, and it may only be a semantic argument to boot...
07/02/2018 06:10:10 AM · #16
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by bjoern:

Roughly, the way I approach voting is: The worst (in my eyes) of a challenge compared to the others in the challenge gets a 1, the best (in my eyes) gets a 10. All the others are in between. (There can be more than one 1 and more than one 10, though.)

Everyone's entitled to their own approach, of course; that goes without saying.

Nevertheless, what you've just described perplexes me. As I read it, you're saying "Show me a challenge full of crappy mediocre images and I will distribute my votes exactly the same way as I would for a challenge full of really excellent, scintillating images." You are rating all the images against each other on a linear scale, where there has to be a "winner" and a "loser".


I said "As an extreme, hypothetical example." Put in different words, when the voting is done, there will be a winner, and someone will have to take the last place. That is the way the results come out here at the end, and I do reflect this in my voting to some extent. Sometimes I don't give 1s and 2s, sometimes I don't give 9s and 10s. I agree with your view that a stunning image does not deserve a 1. At the end, however, there will be a first, a second, etc., and a last. (I do agree that it is more encouraging to have the brown ribbon with a score of 6 than with a score of 3 :-) ).

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Myself, I don't see it that way. I look forward to the challenge that's so damned superior I can happily give every image in it an 8 or higher, and there are no losers...


Unless they have all the same score, there will be a ranking. That is what this site is about. And I love this site because it is not an indiscriminate "Wow", "Great shot" as other fotocommunity sites. One gets a broader feedback, sometimes only in votes, not so much in comments, but it's still feedback.

I don't understand why there is such a big problem with the few low votes sometimes (and generally there really are only a few, if any, on winning images). Instead of whining about the few, why not just be enthused by the many appreciating votes and skip thinking about the low ones?

07/01/2018 08:31:37 PM · #17
Here's the 'Rules' we all live by on this site. Good read if you haven't been there in a while. Covers pretty much this entire conversation.
07/01/2018 08:06:30 PM · #18
oh dear. I like to give 'em what I give 'em. sometimes something will seem to me appallingly bad for some reason or another. sometimes something will seem to me excruciatingly good. those two are the happy ones.
07/01/2018 08:03:55 PM · #19
I think a lot of people take scores very personally, as though the number represents how voters feel about the photographer. As Bear says, we are all submitting OUR view of a challenge, and our "best" image for a particular challenge, and conveniently forget that it is a "challenge". Regardless of our personal styles (glossy/blurry), or experience (noob/pro), our images are being judged in the most democratic possible way: anonymously. And are subject to the opinions of an incredibly broad range of tastes.

At it's most basic, the challenges are a popularity contest where the majority voter higher on the image that THEY feel is most well-done and best fits the challenge FOR THEM. The winner is the image that MOST people agree is the best image of the challenge.

As long as we are a competitive site, that will not change.
07/01/2018 07:57:48 PM · #20
My feeling is this:

1) if you give a photo a 1 or 2, you are essentially giving the photographer an F grade.

Very few of the photos, if any, on this site deserve an "F".

2) If you give a photographer an "F", on a decent photo, you

a) discourage them from entering challenges
b) send them off to another site, where an average or better than average score gets an average or better than average reception
c) begrudge them, perhaps into scoring others lower

I see some of this by genre. A person doesn't care for a genre, and they score it very low, maybe 1 or 2. Or for that matter 3. Which is essentially a "D" score. If you are not interested in a genre, or find it boring, don't vote for that photo. Others may be interested in that genre.

3) If you give a low score based on genre, what happens is you chase people who do like that genre away from DPC.

Think about all of the above when you vote next time. It doesn't hurt to be a bit generous in your votes. The rankings will still work. Everyone will feel a bit better.

If you really want to help the photographer improve, don't do it by giving them a lower than deserved score, give them a well thought out critique.

That would make DPC a much better place.

Message edited by author 2018-07-01 19:58:39.
07/01/2018 07:45:49 PM · #21
Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by PennyStreet:

Originally posted by bjoern:

I see it like this:

More people voting reduces the effect of the outliers.


Touché.


plus a bizillion

Also, although the idea of a pop-up is intriguing, any suggestions involving changes to the code are not going to happen.

The code might still be there since this was a feature that was implemented in the past and may have simply been disabled. Repeating my earlier comment: I think the popup for a one vote using the keyboard would be beneficial. If it can't be limited to keyboard votes (it can, just takes more work) then any one vote is fine and the message should just confirm that it wasn't a mistake, not make a judgment about the low score.
07/01/2018 07:37:24 PM · #22
Originally posted by PennyStreet:

Originally posted by bjoern:

I see it like this:

More people voting reduces the effect of the outliers.


Touché.


plus a bizillion

Also, although the idea of a pop-up is intriguing, any suggestions involving changes to the code are not going to happen.
07/01/2018 07:35:39 PM · #23
If there was a way of doing it anonymously I’d be interested to see what the voter who left a low score thought of all the pictures in a challenge.
07/01/2018 07:01:48 PM · #24
Originally posted by roz:

Originally posted by Paul:

I find a 10 point scale is sometimes insufficient to differentiate between images. By the time you’ve sorted the images into clusters where the fives are ‘better’ than the fours and the tens ‘better’ than the nines, the twos are necessarily ‘better’ than the ones; and sometimes finer granularity would be easier for me.

Having said that, I don’t think I’d ever give a ‘good-but-dull’ shot a 1.

The trouble is - what does ‘good’ mean - I think you need to do more than just expose properly and have it in focus...


it always comes down to personal preference like ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' salmiakki said ..
its just that i have never felt justified in giving anyone less than a vote of three .. just entering a challenge gets that from me no matter how 'bad' the photo is ..
and i truly believe that we all need encouragement .. so its not just about being 'right' or seeing a photo as 'good' .. its also about seeing the positives in an image and voting on them ..


Everyone has to figure out their own methodology for giving votes on DPC, and everyone has their own opinion about why their methodology is better. I found it more useful to be consistent with my voting and if I give anyone a low vote I leave a comment about why it got a low vote. That is my personal way and it works for me. Years ago I got over the inconsistent voting patterns... yes they are frustrating but over time mostly consistent. There will always be someone giving a low score to a fabulous photo, oh well, it is more useful to get more members and hence more voters to drown out the trolls. I also choose to focus on growing my photography skill set and not obsess over the end score.
07/01/2018 05:47:41 PM · #25
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

....
Myself, I don't see it that way. I look forward to the challenge that's so damned superior I can happily give every image in it an 8 or higher, and there are no losers...

I agree with you, Bear. The scale clearly says “Bad” under the “1”. I would never rate a photo “bad”, unless I thought there was no redeeming feature, or if it clearly had nothing to do with the topic of the challenge.
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