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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> In your experience...do people understand.....
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08/06/2002 05:19:44 PM · #1
...your non cliché shots or do you wind up with a low score because your pictures were "different" and outside the norm?
08/06/2002 05:45:03 PM · #2
That''s a hard question to answer. But I''ll try. No they don''t understand my non cliche` shots...but I think I score low because my photos aren''t good...not because they are non-cliche`

That wasn''t so hard afterall.
:P


* This message has been edited by the author on 8/6/2002 5:49:04 PM.
08/06/2002 05:52:08 PM · #3
Originally posted by psychephylax:
...your non cliché shots or do you wind up with a low score because your pictures were "different" and outside the norm?

All I can really say is that sometimes I really do not understand the judging. I can get some of the most awesome comments, but still get a low score.

For example, for the "texture" challenge, I did not want to do a macro shot of some wrinkly, bumpy object. I took a picture that merely suggested a texture. Granted, that picture had technical problems, but most of the negative comments I got were like, "This picture doesn't meet the challenge" more than "this picture looks like lower primate excrement."

I found that really suprising, and it was the exact opposite of what I expected. Because of that, I try and lighten up on a score for a good picture that might be challenge-iffy. For all I know, i might just not get the connection.

Having said that, the haphazard judging actually makes it more interesting. You never know what is going to happen. You might take a photo you think is medicore, and then everyone latches onto it...
08/06/2002 05:55:38 PM · #4
Originally posted by psychephylax:
...your non cliché shots or do you wind up with a low score because your pictures were "different" and outside the norm?

Can''t say.

I share my shots with a camera group at my local art center.

Often times my most poignent photos score lowly here but are very well recieved by those folks and some of the better scoring ones here are only so-so with them.

My current photo is scoring about a 5.3..but the photogs in my local group think it is my best photo submission to date.

I think its hard for folks to see the details of a photo when there are 180 or more entries. Also, people seem to be a bit harsher in their voting than their experience allows. But I figure it''s a free country and they can score what they want...

The bottom line is I feel I make progess in my photography with every week regardless of my score. Other who I meet with face to face feel the same and that is the only real way folks can understand your photography...The net is not the best format for everybodies style.


* This message has been edited by the author on 8/6/2002 5:56:47 PM.
08/06/2002 06:05:50 PM · #5
also, a lot of detail is lost on this website die to the 640x480 res. If it could go up to 1200xwhatever i'm sure a lot of the photos would look much better, but that would be unfair on people with lower budget cameras, and with slow internet connections.
08/06/2002 06:24:28 PM · #6
i think i take creative pictures, but not well done pictures. i enjoy taking photographs that will make someone laugh. if i cant do that i try to come up with a good picture/title combination
08/06/2002 06:26:35 PM · #7
Originally posted by clay:
i think i take creative pictures, but not well done pictures. i enjoy taking photographs that will make someone laugh. if i cant do that i try to come up with a good picture/title combination

I think your RVO shot was quite excellent :)
08/06/2002 06:27:59 PM · #8
I get much better scores when I post a normal stait-laced shot then when I try to do something different. Maybe we should start another site call dpdifferent.com.

Originally posted by psychephylax:
...your non cliché shots or do you wind up with a low score because your pictures were "different" and outside the norm?

08/06/2002 06:32:48 PM · #9
i burned my hand while taking rvo. i had a shot of my hand on fire while i was trying to grab something, but it got deleted when i installed xp.
08/06/2002 08:53:57 PM · #10
I think a lot of voters here have a problem with anything different.
08/06/2002 09:38:18 PM · #11
Originally posted by Gina Rothfels:
I think a lot of voters here have a problem with anything different.

Maybe it''s our cameras...the C-2100UZ instills totally different thinking to a human :)

* This message has been edited by the author on 8/6/2002 10:20:41 PM.
08/09/2002 11:29:38 PM · #12
Originally posted by psychephylax:
...your non cliché shots or do you wind up with a low score because your pictures were "different" and outside the norm?

I think we have two types of photographers here and the answer (and votes) depend on which type you talk to. The "artists" seem to like the more abstract shots and downgrade a lot of what I would call more "casual photos." The more casual photographers look at things with just the opposite view. If you think I'm wrong, submit a picture using a "normal" view of a baby, dog, or cat and look at the comments. ;) Take a technically good picture of a dog's paw and the artists will rate it higher than the casual photographers. Photograph the whole dog and the results will be just the opposite.

I'm not criticizing either viewpoint. They're just different and that impacts the results. That's my 2 cents worth...and I'll probably get hammered for it. LOL

Your mileage may vary. Remember, only YOU can prevent forest fires. This offer void in states where prohibited by law. ;)

Mark

Well...after I wrote that I read a thread in another forum that addresses the art vs snapshot issue. Interesting thread but it makes my brain hurt. ;)

* This message has been edited by the author on 8/9/2002 11:42:26 PM.
08/10/2002 12:56:44 AM · #13
i think my DIOGENES was an AWESOME picture (self-pat-on-back) but it got scored way down because it totally required not only a title but also, for those not up on the arcane reference, a short novel to set up the context ... so to answer your question - don't get TOO artsy, unless the challenge really allows for WIDE-open creativity

* This message has been edited by the author on 8/10/2002 1:32:00 AM.
08/10/2002 01:19:34 AM · #14
There were several excellent points made in this thread....

1. Hokie said: "The bottom line is I feel I make progess in my photography with every week regardless of my score." Bravo!! That is exactly why I decided to join here. When it comes down to it, I really am in competition only with myself. The judging and perceptions are very subjective. By viewing my competitors' submissions, I learn how to think differently and grow.

2. Iggy stated: "I think we have two types of photographers here...." Actually, there are probably more than that but the point I derive from this is that knowing your audience is a great advantage. That is part of the reason I made this post.. Once you find out what your audience wants, you've won half the battle.

3. Gina wrote: "I think a lot of voters here have a problem with anything different." Yes and no. Part of the reason photographers join this site is because they ARE looking for something different. One reason non-photographers join is because they simply like looking at a form of art--and if what they see doesn't conform to their individual and highly-subjective perception of what art is, they react negatively. But any "real" artist knows that his "vision" will be criticized. Still he/she is providing a real service to the community in helping broaden their experience and how they view even life itself.

I am scoring very poorly in my first submission and you know what? It doesn't bother me one bit. If I felt this community defined who I am or what my ability is I would quickly get very discouraged. I am here to have fun and learn.
08/10/2002 01:52:06 AM · #15
That was one of my favorite shots.

Originally posted by spiderman:
i think my DIOGENES was an AWESOME picture (self-pat-on-back) but it got scored way down because it totally required not only a title but also, for those not up on the arcane reference, a short novel to set up the context ... so to answer your question - don't get TOO artsy, unless the challenge really allows for [i]WIDE-open creativit[/i]

08/10/2002 10:33:23 AM · #16
After reviewing several challenges now, I have a propensity to award more points towards images that are not contrived or artificial in any way. I do not like shots that are "staged" or represent poor attempts to simply meet the challenge themes. It is better not to submit. I prefer more natural and unaffected images that just happened to catch the eye of the photographer. The best work is when the photographer is able to freeze a moment in time. But, that is just my opinion. And, that is the basis for my grading of the submissions.

There are as many styles and approaches to photography as there are photographers. Some of the work that I have seen submitted has been truly magnificent. I found several images to be so superior, that I actually wish I had taken them, so I could exhibit them in my home. This is a great venue for all styles. It would be wrong in my view to submit solely with a goal of trying to win a challenge by trying to strictly meet the theme of the challenge. It is much better to submit your best labours, so others can value them, or not, as they see fit. Of course, they still need to be relevant to the challenge’s premise.
08/10/2002 04:31:25 PM · #17
Originally posted by Morgan:
After reviewing several challenges now, I have a propensity to award more points towards images that are not contrived or artificial in any way. I do not like shots that are "staged" or represent poor attempts to simply meet the challenge themes. It is better not to submit. I prefer more natural and unaffected images that just happened to catch the eye of the photographer. The best work is when the photographer is able to freeze a moment in time. But, that is just my opinion. And, that is the basis for my grading of the submissions.

There are as many styles and approaches to photography as there are photographers. Some of the work that I have seen submitted has been truly magnificent. I found several images to be so superior, that I actually wish I had taken them, so I could exhibit them in my home. This is a great venue for all styles. It would be wrong in my view to submit solely with a goal of trying to win a challenge by trying to strictly meet the theme of the challenge. It is much better to submit your best labours, so others can value them, or not, as they see fit. Of course, they still need to be relevant to the challenge’s premise.


Morgan,
I agree with you about tending to favor "non-staged" photographs and find that I am awarding more points to those photos that would be spectacular, great, good or even just mediocre when seen outside of the context of this competition. Granted, I just stumbled across this site a week ago and have only voted in the Something Old challenge but typically the ones I voted above 6, in my eye, have been wonderful photos that just happened to have something to do with being "old".
When I am voting on the photos I just keep the theme in the back of my head and quickly go through the thumbnails and the ones that just jump out at me as great photos I will vote on first and then go back through all of them and continue to vote (and find more outstanding photos that I missed the first go round). For those who are reading this and may have gotten one of my comments on your submission (which I'm trying to do for all that I vote on because that's what helps us to expand our abilities), I hope you take it as constructive because it is meant to be, and from now on I'll be sure to let you know what score I gave you because I'm sure that will help and even if I may tear the photo apart critically I may still give you a high score because I like the way it looks.
So anyway, sorry for being long winded. I'm about to upload my first submission for the Something New challenge. Nothing special and I'll probably not score too high but this is definitely fun and gives me excuses to go out and find photographic moments with my new toy.
Courtenay
08/10/2002 10:29:44 PM · #18
I think it comes down to accessibility. Something that's artsy and aesthetic isn't necessarily approachable by all. For example, all but one of my shots, more or less, got clobbered. I wouldn't say I'm a good photographer, not yet, but all of them tried to convey something that was trickier than what meets the eye. And that never works in a wide-spread contest like this. Last week, I went against my general style and did well. Oh, the irony... =)
08/10/2002 10:45:56 PM · #19
Well, set-up shots are a double-edged sword in my opinion...

Setting up shots allows for a controlled environment. You can get the lighting just perfect, adjust the subject a bit if necessary. Then look at the pictures on a computer, and go retake to fix problems you notice. The point is that you can "alter" the scene as you see fit in an attempt to give the viewer something better.

On the other hand, set up shots can and sometimes do look very fake. That's the biggest downfall of set-up photography. You made it plain obvious to the viewer the shot was set up. However, set up shots that look like the genuine thing usually are very highly rated.

As an example, dequinix took a great shot last week...But there is no way in hell I can tell you if it's real or set up. It could be taken when someone is really sitting at the subway station, but this might require having to wait for this opportunity for days. Alternatively, get a friend to sit on the bench late at night when nobody is at the train station and viola, you get the same exact shot, but one was set up and one was not.

I think there's a big difference between a set up shot that looks real fake and one that makes the person think they are looking at the genuine thing.
08/10/2002 11:14:33 PM · #20
Originally posted by focus:
I am scoring very poorly in my first submission and you know what? It doesn't bother me one bit. If I felt this community defined who I am or what my ability is I would quickly get very discouraged. I am here to have fun and learn.

I agree. The only person you have to please is yourself. When I first got on this site, I tried a subtle approach and got nailed, then I tried to second guess the voters and got nailed, so I figured I might as well just do the best I can with my own warped ideas:) That said, and the frustration aside, the reason I keep entering is that those voters are helping me clarify my ideas. When I first read some comments I feel like throwing something, but then later I see how my pictures could get misinterpertated (sometimes...LOL).
08/12/2002 12:15:04 AM · #21
I agree. The only person you have to please is yourself. When I first got on this site, I tried a subtle approach and got nailed, then I tried to second guess the voters and got nailed, so I figured I might as well just do the best I can with my own warped ideas:) That said, and the frustration aside, the reason I keep entering is that those voters are helping me clarify my ideas. When I first read some comments I feel like throwing something, but then later I see how my pictures could get misinterpertated (sometimes...LOL).


Hi Paul,

Your feelings are the exact reason i posted what I did. We all see our work as an extension of our very being. To have our worked judged so critically can be very damaging to our ego IF we take it as a personal insult.

We are now at the end of the week of voting (within the period of my first submission here). To tell you the truth, I valued more the specific pieces of advice on how a particular respondant would make things better, including lighting and framing, than I did any of the voting points.

I'm not sure that many of these "challenges" were designed to show our ability at classical art (flowers, scenery and the like). From viewing some of the members private websites, it seems we are all relatively adept at that type of photography. This site seems to help us focus on broadening our perspectives. When I was in school, tests were a horrible mental torture for me--because I let them be. The challenges here can be the same IF we allow them to be. On the other hand, if we "damn the torpeedos and full steam ahead" in doing our individual best in these challenges, we can look forward both to the challenge and to those rare gems of sharp-eyed wisdom we'll get every so often.

Another thing that I can't help but wonder is if there are corporate "lerkers" out there that view this site as a form of "scouting" like the major leagues do at colleges and colleges do at high schools for potential football, baseball and basketball candidates. Just because my picture scores a 2 here, doesn't mean that some scout doesn't see potential and won't contact me and offer me a contract for half-a-billion dollars. (Well, I can dream, can't I?)

:-)

Take care,
bart
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