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01/19/2005 12:49:53 PM · #1
I have seen this term used in so many threads and used as an excuse for a bad score for an input. I think people should rethink this a little and as soon as you realize that your camera only reacts to what YOU do to it and nothing more. There is no magic coming out of any camera if you don´t study it a little and see what it can do for you. Be gentle, read the manual that came with the camera as you would an exciting novel and try new techniques.

For those that complain about people not commenting on their photos thus not being able to learn anything etc... frankly I´ve wanted to comment but the photos were so lacking that I felt bad about making any comment and hurting people.

You are now going to think; "who is this smartass?" Nobody really and after 2 challenges a straight 5´s on my resume. I´m not saying all of this as a rant but asking some of you not to be discouraged with your scores but to try a little different approach.

I hope I´m not offending anyone :)
01/19/2005 12:56:48 PM · #2
I love my G5 but I hate the noise it makes, and that would be the only thing that makes it crappy for me (oh and the retarded flash). This isnt a problem most of the time when in resizing down to 640 pixels but it gets reaffirmed day after day when i try submitting stuff to istockphoto. "poor image quality", "visile noise/compression"...
I think Im ready to move up to the 300D (when I have the money) but I am still very content with my G5 in many regards.
01/20/2005 04:59:36 PM · #3
Have you ever used a konica kd-25?

Until you have had to live with one you have no right to say something like that.

(and yes I do know how to use cameras I've had a film slr since I was 10)
01/20/2005 05:03:44 PM · #4
Yea I disagree with the opening argument as well. Of course there are people not getting the maximum performance out of their gear, but come on. I bought a starter digital cam for my dad for Christmas, on boxing day we marched right back to the store to upgrade - what a piece of crap. Even a snapshot looked like sh*t.
01/20/2005 05:16:31 PM · #5
the way to deal with a less than stellar camera is to learn it's capabilities and work within those boundaries. no sense in trying to shoot photos that your camera can't manage. do the best work you can with the camera you have and save your pennies for a better one.
01/20/2005 05:27:38 PM · #6
I am one of those with a cr*p camera.
But I never complain as it is my choice to stick with it.
I have set some goals, which when achieved will be rewarded with a significantly better camera

Why am I doing this...?
Very simple. There are times when some of the shots I take would be improved with a better system of filters and lenses. But that is not true in all cases. Until I can prove that I can take inherently good photographs consistently, I genuinely believe that spending good money on a better camera system, is firstly a complete waste of my money, and secondly are more importantly, I will be deluding myself in my own capabilities.

There is an old adage about a bad workman blames his tools, and in this area I totally agree. There are some cracking images entered in the challenges and there are also so very mediocre images. The Cracking ones may be able to improve with better cameras. However for the very mediocre ones will not be as lucky.

The combination of poor composition, and poor ideas will never be improved, no matter how good or expensive the equipment.
01/20/2005 05:28:47 PM · #7
SHER, You didn't see these shots. There was no working with it. Even out in a bright sunny day taking a snapshot the results were mind boggling bad.

How can you work within the limitations when limitations are all it has? lol

Message edited by author 2005-01-20 17:29:20.
01/20/2005 05:30:57 PM · #8
Being as I have had a lot of cameras over the years I think I can safely make some comment on this subject. My first digital camera was an HP Photosmart model C5340A, max resolution 640 x 480. I took a lot of photos with this camera and am glad I bought it, but I would defy anybody to get a score of even a 5 with this camera. My next camera was a Ricoh RDC-4300, 1.2 Mpixel camera, it took way better photos then the HP but it could just barely make a somewhat decent looking print tat was 4 x 6 inches. Then came the Nikon CoolPix 995 3.1 MPixel, this was the first camera that I really liked. This was the first that I could shoot in full manual mode. This camera made perfect 4 x 6 prints, better then any film camera. It also could make a passable 8 x 10 print, but never a clear as I would like. Next I got the Sony F828, I love this camera, huge zoom range, turns on fast, great optics. I keep the Nikon as the camera that I keep in the car all the time just in case I need a camera, going back to the Nikon is a bit painful. A little less then a month ago I bought my wife a Canon 20D and have been blown away by the photos it takes.

I am here to tell you the camera makes a huge difference. Beyond the quality of the photos you can get is the joy in using the camera, and this is what it is all about , at least for me. The F828 is a joy to use but the 20D is a delight. We have a 70-300mm zoom for the 20D, there is no way at all for the Sony to even begin to come close to getting the photos that the 20D can get with this lens.

If all you are going to photograph are DCP challenge photos then it would not mater as much, at 640 x 480 pixels almost any camera can make a clear looking photo. But there is a world out there beyond DPC and 640 x 480 photos.

One more rather important item, if you are trying to use a camera that can not run an external flash you can pretty much forget getting a decent looking photo using a flash.

Good photographers take good photos but I am here to tell you that better cameras will take better photographs as well.

In many ways what a better camera does for you is open the range of photographs that you can take. It is very hard for me to take indoor photos with the F828 using available light, but I can do it. It was simply not possible with the Nikon and its much slower optics. Now we have a 20D and the 50mm 1.8 lens, it is a joy to take indoor photos with available light using this camera.
01/20/2005 05:57:30 PM · #9
yeah...when I had my dsc-p52, I used to blame my low scores on my camera. Then I got my s5100 -- and I blamed my low scores on the fact that I didn't have a DSLR. Now with my 300d, I just blame the voters. heh just kidding.
01/20/2005 06:14:39 PM · #10
Everybody has to start somewhere.
01/20/2005 06:22:15 PM · #11
i kindof agree to a point about the photograper being in control rather than the camera. However, for instance my camera, which im happy with, but it does not give me a lot of control over shutter speeds etc, it just automatically sets itself, so to that point i think it is the cameras fault...
01/20/2005 06:33:09 PM · #12
Originally posted by GoldBerry:

SHER, You didn't see these shots. There was no working with it. Even out in a bright sunny day taking a snapshot the results were mind boggling bad.

How can you work within the limitations when limitations are all it has? lol


what i'm saying is that, until you can (or choose to) get a different camera, you have to work with what you've got so why not make the best of it. having a high-end DSLR doesn't automatically make you a great photographer. if you take the time to learn the type of shots your camera does best, you'll naturally be happier with the end result.

i won 2 ribbons here with a 1.2mp cam...many others have done the same. i sell photos made with that camera all the time. it just takes time, persistence and a willingness to learn what the camera can and can't do.

anyway...just my thoughts.
01/21/2005 06:32:10 AM · #13
I still use my crap camera. I even take shots I'm proud of with it. But it is still an atrocious piece of engineering, ergonomics and shiny plastic wghich I would happily burn if I had a better camera. And it does restrict my range of shots(only three fixed points of focus, no zoom and a ludicrously noisy sensor).

Yes you should make the best of what you've got but there is nothing holy about having a bad camera and it is horribly snobbish for people to say that you're not 'good enough' for a decent camera. If you're committed to photography then get the best camera you feel is wise and don't obsess about the better cameras out there.

On the other hand it is possible to be held back by a shit camera( and all you people with even the lowest end canon,olympus etc have no idea just how bad they can get) and if you are, then don't blame yourself just get something decent and cheap. Canon A70's are a reasonable price now.

And yes I am unable to take my own advice.

Message edited by author 2005-01-21 06:32:40.
01/21/2005 06:55:08 AM · #14
As I sit here at 5:45 AM insomania multi-tasking typing on this computer I am in the process of mounting a tack sharp 22x30 inch portrait that I just printed on my 7600. I took this photo back in November with my 1Ds. If I could do anything close to what I am doing now with a crappy P&S I wouldn't have spent all the money I did on this camera.

PS: I love this. It doesn't cure insomnia but at least I have something to do while I'm awake.

Message edited by author 2005-01-21 06:55:55.
01/21/2005 07:18:32 AM · #15
Originally posted by nico_blue:

I love my G5 but I hate the noise it makes, and that would be the only thing that makes it crappy for me (oh and the retarded flash). This isnt a problem most of the time when in resizing down to 640 pixels but it gets reaffirmed day after day when i try submitting stuff to istockphoto. "poor image quality", "visile noise/compression"...
I think Im ready to move up to the 300D (when I have the money) but I am still very content with my G5 in many regards.


If your having problems with your G5 then try setting the ISO to 50. I find with my G2 there is no noise at that ISO.
01/21/2005 08:10:34 AM · #16
Point and shoot cameras have limitations, and their lenses are not high-class. If you understand their limitations you can make some nice images with them. Are they useable in every situation? No.

I expect two things of a camera: manual settings and first-class optics. These two things are a must for a serious photographer. Telephoto / wide angle is nice - it allows me to get some shots I otherwise wouldn't, or makes it easier getting them. Everything else on cameras are just bells and whistles.

When I want to go out and just enjoy the process of taking photos, my favorite camera is a Yashica A - medium format, TLR, no electronics or built in meters, no exchangeable lenses. Just a film holder with an excellent lens. I paid $30 for it at a swap meet.
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