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01/20/2005 08:57:33 AM · #1
As being new into the world of digital cameras i did the terrible mistake of buying a cheap camera which i thought would be sufficent for my needs,
but i was terrible wrong, and now i have looked deep into my vallet and now was wondering if there was anyone who could help me...

i have these 2 cameras which i think would be sutied for me

the Nikon 70D whith a good zoom lens and a normal lense and a wide

or the Canon 20D with a average Wide lense but a good Zoom and Normal lense

What would you guys suggest????
01/20/2005 09:02:35 AM · #2
Hi Jimmi,
well, I am using the Nikon D70 and I love it , but I have never used the Canon 20D and therefore am unable to advise you on which one is better.....But I have no regrets on buying the Nikon D70 :)
01/20/2005 09:06:00 AM · #3
Jimmi, You can't go wrong with either. Don't get in a hurry, read lots of reviews for both online, and then try to get your hands on each if only in the store. Other possibilities are the Canon 10D and Canon Digital Rebel, both much less expensive than the 20D... you could use the savings to buy better lenses, perhaps. Keep us posted.
01/20/2005 11:59:20 AM · #4
Either one is a good choice. Both are a significant jump from your Fuji S5500. A jump in terms in of camera quality, complexity, difficulty of use and learning required. But also a jump in terms of investment, and in terms of commitment to a particular manufacturer. Because that is what you are doing when you buy a DSLR and lenses- buying into that manufacturer's system. The lenses, and other accessories, you acquire will stay with you over the years as new camera bodies come and go as technology marches on. Unless you are absolutely sure of which system you want to commit to, and money is no object, buying a top notch prosumer camera might be a wiser step. Cameras like a Canon Pro 1 or G6, or like Nikon's Coolpix 8800 are very advanced technically. They will serve you well in advancing your photographic skill level without the firm commitment to a system, or the cost, of a DSLR & lenses.
01/20/2005 12:56:11 PM · #5
Mostly curious - what do you find wrong with your S5500 that you hope to fix by buying a more expensive camera ?
01/20/2005 01:04:48 PM · #6
Originally posted by Gordon:

Mostly curious - what do you find wrong with your S5500 that you hope to fix by buying a more expensive camera ?


Gordon's right, this is the question you need to ask yourself first, before laying out the money for a DSLR.
01/20/2005 01:06:04 PM · #7
Originally posted by Coreuk:

but i was terrible wrong, and now i have looked deep into my vallet and now was wondering if there was anyone who could help me...

If your wallet is deep enough you should get a Canon 1Ds-MkII instead of the 20D. And, if it's really deep you should get two and send me one.


01/20/2005 01:24:45 PM · #8
I just got a D70 last week & am very impressed with it so far. The deciding factor for me was the final product. In other words, the images the camera produces. I spent a lot of time comparing images online between the D70 & the Digital Rebel. Both do a great job, but I decided there was something a little more "film-like"(?) in the pics from the D70 (a quality I like), so I spent the extra money. Hope that helps.
01/20/2005 02:19:09 PM · #9
Originally posted by Gordon:

Mostly curious - what do you find wrong with your S5500 that you hope to fix by buying a more expensive camera ?


Eh? you cant be serious about asking me that ??

Have you ever tried the S5500 ? if you have you would have seen that its zoom is basicly useless and the picture quality is worse then on my sony dsc-p32

I know there is alot of options you can use in it, but i have tried most of the settings and most doesnt help the picture quality without going on a comprise with the picture i want.

So tell me what you would do, buy a new camera that will live up to the pictures you want to take, or stay with the S5500 and comprise ?
01/20/2005 02:24:45 PM · #10
The Canon and the Nikon have little to choose between them. I chose Canon, and one of the reasons was the number of quality second hand lenses available on eBay. Go look, you will find a significantly higher number of canon kit is available, and therefore your kitbag can be filled more quickly.

Falc
01/20/2005 02:24:46 PM · #11
Originally posted by aronya1:

Both do a great job, but I decided there was something a little more "film-like"(?) in the pics from the D70 (a quality I like), so I spent the extra money. Hope that helps.


"film like" was what I was trying to get away from when I went digital.
01/20/2005 02:32:32 PM · #12
Originally posted by Coreuk:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Mostly curious - what do you find wrong with your S5500 that you hope to fix by buying a more expensive camera ?


Eh? you cant be serious about asking me that ??

Have you ever tried the S5500 ? if you have you would have seen that its zoom is basicly useless and the picture quality is worse then on my sony dsc-p32

I know there is alot of options you can use in it, but i have tried most of the settings and most doesnt help the picture quality without going on a comprise with the picture i want.

So tell me what you would do, buy a new camera that will live up to the pictures you want to take, or stay with the S5500 and comprise ?

Look at it on the positive side, you only need a score of a little over 4 and you will have the highest score for the S5500, with the 20D you would need a score of over 7 just to be in the top 15.
01/20/2005 02:33:23 PM · #13
another thing to consider is that the 20D is 8.2 megapixels, and the D70 is only 6.1
01/20/2005 03:17:18 PM · #14
Another thing you might want to consider before making a purchase is Canon is more than 3 years ahead of Nikon in the more advanced camera lines. Canon came out with the full frame sensor 11mp 1Ds. Nikon answers that almost 3 years later with the 1.5 crop sensor 12mp DX-2(which is still not on the market). In the mean time Canon has already topped the 1Ds with the full frame sensor 16mp 1Ds Mark II. (it is on the market)

It is for these reasons that when I switched from film to digital I also switched from Nikon to Canon. No easy choice considering the Nikon lenses I owned.

This may also be a consideration for you to consider if there is a possibility you may want to upgrade to a top line professional camera at some point in the future.

Message edited by author 2005-01-20 15:18:43.
01/20/2005 03:19:30 PM · #15
Originally posted by Coreuk:

Eh? you cant be serious about asking me that ??

Have you ever tried the S5500 ? if you have you would have seen that its zoom is basicly useless and the picture quality is worse then on my sony dsc-p32

I know there is alot of options you can use in it, but i have tried most of the settings and most doesnt help the picture quality without going on a comprise with the picture i want.

So tell me what you would do, buy a new camera that will live up to the pictures you want to take, or stay with the S5500 and comprise ?


I'd buy a new camera.

However I think Gordon was serious in his question. If you cannot articulate, clearly, what it is about the S5500 that you think is holding back your photography that says something. And I think Gordon was trying to force you to think about that.

If you've got the money and want to buy a DSLR, no one can stop you. And it will be easy to find people who will tell you you did the right thing, especially among owners of whichever camera you decide on.

I'll state my opinion bluntly for you. You're not ready for a semi-pro level DSLR like the 20D or the D70. It's over your head. Way over your head, and a waste of money. You will develope a better foundation of photographic skills by going with a camera that is not such a big leap.

Just my two cents.
01/20/2005 03:24:51 PM · #16
I agree that Canon is ahead today with pure technology. But, I think that very few photographers would be inhibited by either camera. I suppose that studying stats would make the Canon look better, but when I was in the camera store, I liked the Nikon better. In many situations the D70s capabilities will exceed the photographer, so do the extra .000x fizbang and <insert metric> sensor noise make a big difference?

If you know for a fact you need a certain level of statistic, then you'd probably not be asking which camera to get. That being the case, you should get whichever camera "feels right" to you. They will both take you most places you'd want to go. They'll both have a huge assortment of used stuff as well. Neither system has an edge there since they've both been around forever.

Go to a camera store and handle them both. Actually take pictures with them. From there, let the force guide you, not the statistics.
01/20/2005 03:43:47 PM · #17
Originally posted by coolhar:

I'll state my opinion bluntly for you. You're not ready for a semi-pro level DSLR like the 20D or the D70. It's over your head. Way over your head, and a waste of money. You will develope a better foundation of photographic skills by going with a camera that is not such a big leap.

Just my two cents.


I will disagree with that emphatically. I see no reason anyone, for reasons other then the monetary, should have to "step up" to a good camera. I see no reason why a person's first camera shouldn't be a DSLR such as the D70 or the 300D. The amount a person can learn by having the option to use the advanced settings as they get used to the camera is amazing. And I will beg anyone to prove to me how using a point and shoot could possibly be easier to operate then a DSLR set in the Auto mode, or any advantage at all, for that matter, of using the point and shoot.

Message edited by author 2005-01-20 15:45:28.
01/20/2005 03:47:45 PM · #18
Originally posted by Coreuk:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Mostly curious - what do you find wrong with your S5500 that you hope to fix by buying a more expensive camera ?


Eh? you cant be serious about asking me that ??

Have you ever tried the S5500 ? if you have you would have seen that its zoom is basicly useless and the picture quality is worse then on my sony dsc-p32

I know there is alot of options you can use in it, but i have tried most of the settings and most doesnt help the picture quality without going on a comprise with the picture i want.

So tell me what you would do, buy a new camera that will live up to the pictures you want to take, or stay with the S5500 and comprise ?


Yes, I was entirely serious. From what I've seen, the S5500 is a good camera and can produce very good results in the hands of someone that knows how to use it.

Just spending another few thousand pounds will get you another camera, but will it change anything ?

Now, maybe your particular camera is broken and that might be worth looking in to. Or maybe there are specific things about the S5500 that are limiting you that you want to change, and when you can articulate those then that is a great time to upgrade to a better camera. But if you can't get a good picture out of a working s5500, you'll have similar issues with a D70 or 300D - they'll just cost you more. I'd recommend getting some help with your existing camera, until you can at least get shots as good as the samples below:

some samples (the S5100 and S5500 are the same camera)

Of course, if money isn't a problem, get either the Nikon or the Canon and go for it, but don't expect it change your pictures dramatically.

Message edited by author 2005-01-20 15:56:36.
01/20/2005 03:49:50 PM · #19
I think the 300D with good glass is the best option.

Start off with that and upgrade in a year or so, newer models will be out then, experience will have increased.

Use the extra money saved to get the best glass you can afford, in this way, when you upgrade, you will already have the best lenses.

Consider your options carefully, read reviews, go and play with the cameras and then make your choice. Good Luck!

ps, my 6900z has lasted me 3 years...now it is time to move on.

Message edited by author 2005-01-20 15:50:35.
01/20/2005 03:51:25 PM · #20
I agree. thousands of people have started off using a manual film slr when autofocus was a luxury and you can learn more fiddling about with the settings on an slr for an afternoon than you might spending a month with a point and shoot. It won't make your photography better but an slr means that you can easily separate YOUR mistakes from the camera's faults.
01/20/2005 03:52:22 PM · #21
If it's a question of deciding strictly between the 2 cameras based on their features, I'd pick the D70.
01/20/2005 04:00:05 PM · #22
Originally posted by coolhar:

Originally posted by Coreuk:

Eh? you cant be serious about asking me that ??

Have you ever tried the S5500 ? if you have you would have seen that its zoom is basicly useless and the picture quality is worse then on my sony dsc-p32

I know there is alot of options you can use in it, but i have tried most of the settings and most doesnt help the picture quality without going on a comprise with the picture i want.

So tell me what you would do, buy a new camera that will live up to the pictures you want to take, or stay with the S5500 and comprise ?


I'd buy a new camera.

However I think Gordon was serious in his question. If you cannot articulate, clearly, what it is about the S5500 that you think is holding back your photography that says something. And I think Gordon was trying to force you to think about that.

If you've got the money and want to buy a DSLR, no one can stop you. And it will be easy to find people who will tell you you did the right thing, especially among owners of whichever camera you decide on.

I'll state my opinion bluntly for you. You're not ready for a semi-pro level DSLR like the 20D or the D70. It's over your head. Way over your head, and a waste of money. You will develope a better foundation of photographic skills by going with a camera that is not such a big leap.

Just my two cents.


Well, thanks for your 2 cents

Do you feel that because you have a superior english skill then me, that you are more intelligent then me ? or that i am stupid and can't figure out how to use a camera like a D70 or a 20D.

Have you considered that English might not be my first language or what language skills have to do with how good you are at using a camera, but again perhabs i shouldn't listen to a arrogant person like yourself, which aperantly doesn't have any sense of decency or maners.

Just one last thing before i will leave you alone to your dark and bitter world

Remeber if you dont have anything good to say its better to keep quite.
01/20/2005 04:05:50 PM · #23
Originally posted by Coreuk:


Well, thanks for your 2 cents

Do you feel that because you have a superior english skill then me, that you are more intelligent then me ? or that i am stupid and can't figure out how to use a camera like a D70 or a 20D.

Have you considered that English might not be my first language or what language skills have to do with how good you are at using a camera, but again perhabs i shouldn't listen to a arrogant person like yourself, which aperantly doesn't have any sense of decency or maners.

Just one last thing before i will leave you alone to your dark and bitter world

Remeber if you dont have anything good to say its better to keep quite.


You asked for opinions and he gave you one. He didn't namecall or say anything about your ability to speak English. Let's stay away from the personal attacks, please.
01/20/2005 04:10:51 PM · #24
Coreuk: I think people may be judging your photographic abilities based on the two photos that you have in your DPC portfolio. I am sure the camera you have is capable of capturing some excellent images and that there are some features about it which pretty much suck but you can find ways to work around that. Anyone judging you based on such little information can certainly come off as rude and arrogant. Hell, if you can afford a dslr you should go out and buy one. I would if I had that kind of money. I'm sure you would be happy with whatever camera you pick. They are both really good. The important thing is to go out there and shoot alot and have fun.
01/20/2005 04:13:20 PM · #25
OK, allow me to ramble aimlessly here...

I have been through two point and shoots. One I outgrew very quickly, because of the very limiting features of the Sony DSCP32, and one that I adore (Kodak DX-6490) and would probably have never outgrown with my particular level of photography skills (minimal at best). I won a ribbon with both of them. Now, since I've had my rebel for about five weeks, I've been scoring lower in the challenges and find myself "reinventing the wheel" so to speak because the learning curve is steep, especially for one like me who has no real training or education in photography. I would have never considered getting a dSLR if it hadn't been a gift for Christmas. I don't have the money or the talent to justify buying one for myself.

That said, I think you might not be giving yourself or your 5500 a real opportunity to shine. Don't sell your skills short, work them to the best of your ability with what you have to work with. Buying an expensive camera that is so completely different to use, and difficult to control when you aren't used to it will make you feel even more frustrated. I promise, because it has happened to me. But I am pretty stubborn and I know I'll get it right eventually. You will too. Give yourself, your skills, and your camera a chance.

If money is no object, by all means buy whatever your heart desires. Just don't get frustrated when you have to relearn what you think you already know. :o)

Message edited by author 2005-01-20 16:13:31.
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