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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Comment at your peril!
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01/27/2005 04:11:31 PM · #1
I like to receive comments when people vote on my submission. That's what I believe this site is all about - sharing knowledge, constructive criticism and being honest.

That last one is particularly important and the most difficult one. Sometimes it seems that instead of people wanting an honest critique of their image, they just want someone to say, "Ooh, that's pretty. Aren't you a clever chap".

I've made an real effort in the Old & New challenge to comment on most of the pictures I've voted on. Some, I've written a paragraph or two. Others just the one line. All of them are fairly honest but never nasty (at least IMHO).

Now what do I get but floods of PMs from people! Some of them are upset because I didn't think they fitted the challenge and they want to explain how wrong I am. Some of them think I am the spawn of the devil for not liking their photograph.

I'm beginning to wonder whether it's worth the hassle!
01/27/2005 04:14:25 PM · #2
You got that right, fellow bear... I'm currently mostly just commenting on pictures I've scored well. Anything that I tell people exactly why they didn't do so well, IMO, is just asking for grief...

Robt.
01/27/2005 04:15:01 PM · #3
It's worth it, just put the bag over your head!
Don't stop on account of the few.
01/27/2005 04:16:05 PM · #4
in all honesty, its probably not. I appreciate every single comment i get and try to learn from them no matter how degrading or biased it is. If people don't want to improve, you have to wonder what their business is on this site.

In depth and critical critiques are the lifeblood of this site, its shameful that some people are so thick and incapable of learning from their mistakes

01/27/2005 04:17:00 PM · #5
I know, I just had my first PM for something like that... It's weird to get a direct response other than "this comment was useful" or not. He was really polite, I'm not blaming the guy at all... But I realised the responsive side of a critique.

But I can take a lot from others for what I do. I got a pretty hard shell. I even do like harsh critique, being one myself. As long as it remains respectful, I enjoy every comment I get.

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 16:20:57.
01/27/2005 04:18:20 PM · #6
I had this problem, so I stopped commenting.

Perhaps, I may start again soon...if people will take on board what I am saying. After all, a comment on a photo is a personal take on what I see and like or dislike about that photo.

We all like comments...I don't care whether they are good or bad...I have evoked a reaction and that is my aim. I am never going to be a pro, but I do enjoy translating the challenges in my own, warped way.

Still, life goes on and the world keeps spinning.
01/27/2005 04:22:16 PM · #7
If you comment on every entry in a challenge you deserve a medal. I used to have that as a goal, but these days I end up conmmenting on my top and bottom scorers. "Atta boys" are easier to write than, "you messed this all up"s.
It isn't easy getting ripped in a comment, but it is more helpfull in fostering growth than blanket praise. If you have do defend your shot it must have weaknesses that you need to address.
Check your profile, if you have given more comments than you have recived, good on you. If not suck it up and get busy.

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 16:24:27.
01/27/2005 04:24:08 PM · #8
DIE DEVIL SPAWN!!!

hehehehe

just kidding
01/27/2005 04:25:19 PM · #9
It's ironic that people will get upset at others for not responding well to their critique.

Other than if you're getting a nasty PM (which can't be excused), why not treat their responses to your critique as you would like them to treat your critique of their photo?

Would you rather get "atta boy, great critique" PM's after you leave a comment?

disclaimer: i'm playing devil's advocate...just something to gnaw on...

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 16:25:45.
01/27/2005 04:25:23 PM · #10
Yeah well at least some people are getting comments. I have only received 2 in 140 votes. They aren't really a critique, more or less just saying nice picture. I am not complaining I like to hear that too. But it would be nice to get some feedback. This is my first challenge entry and I guess I was expecting more feedback than that.

Well there is a couple more days of voting left so maybe things will pick up.
01/27/2005 04:25:37 PM · #11
Personally I wish I had more time to comment, but I always try to vote if I can.

However, in regards to the comments! IMO if I have the right to vote I have the right to comment on the photo any which way I feel like. I always try to mix the good with the bad when I comment. What I mean is I'll point out what I like and what I think in my opinion could be improved.

But, honesty is the key! What's the point if you don't want honest criticism to learn from?

Don't stop commenting thou, at least, maybe change your comments to Anonymous. Personally I don't like that option but its there.

Hey, maybe we should have a button to check "I don't want honest comments because they upset me" , ha ha... just kidding.

But please don't stop commenting... it's worth it to some of us! That's part of my learning curve.
01/27/2005 04:30:27 PM · #12
Originally posted by radiman:

But it would be nice to get some feedback.


Make sure you tick the box that says you would like an indepth critique from the critique club. There are always some that don't get through due to the high volume but if you're lucky you'll get a good honest appraisal of your photo.

On that subject, joining the critique club is a great way of giving something back to the site. I'm still learning and I've found that doing an indepth critique on someone else's image really helps you learn about your own technique.
01/27/2005 04:31:08 PM · #13
I received a rude PM from someone (who will remained nameless) about not even having a SLR camera, so what do I know. After that I pretty much stop commenting. I started the
World Record comment drive and have commented on every entry in a challenge twice and almost a third time.

With the introduction of the bagged head I've made a couple comments again, but not has many as my avg. 100 a week previously. Actually I stop voting too.

I may not get high scores but I use to give out high scores.

Now everytime I see a "I got a new dSLR type" thread it irritates the heck out of me.

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 16:32:35.
01/27/2005 04:33:34 PM · #14
Sorry, faidoi...you'll have to buy an SLR before you can contribute to this thread.

Could somebody from the SC please delete this joker's post?
01/27/2005 04:33:50 PM · #15
;0)
01/27/2005 04:35:04 PM · #16
I do not believe artists, and I'm including photographers as artists, should ever attempt to defend or justify your work. In fact, I don't think they should even try to explain it. Once a piece of work has been opened to the public, it should be strong enough to stand on it's own. (A one liner to state the challenge could certainly be included as part of the work) Any attempt to explain and/or justify the work lessons both the artist and the art.

Guess that's a long winded way of saying people really shouldn't attempt to explain their work.
01/27/2005 04:35:52 PM · #17
I disagree. Dialogue is fundamental in helping others to understand your perspective.

If somebody helps me to understand their vision by explaining the circumstances around a photograph and, as a result, I gain a true appreciation for the work, are we both not better off?

Edit: I understand what you're saying but that statement was pretty sweeping...

Message edited by author 2005-01-27 16:37:39.
01/27/2005 04:40:17 PM · #18
Originally posted by The Four Bears:

Originally posted by radiman:

But it would be nice to get some feedback.


Make sure you tick the box that says you would like an indepth critique from the critique club. There are always some that don't get through due to the high volume but if you're lucky you'll get a good honest appraisal of your photo.

On that subject, joining the critique club is a great way of giving something back to the site. I'm still learning and I've found that doing an indepth critique on someone else's image really helps you learn about your own technique.


Oh yeah I clicked that. How long does that usually take after the challenge is over. I'm not in a rush, just curious.

I guess I am not doing too bad vote wise (an even 6.0). Maybe I'd get more if I was on the extreme side, if my picture was extremely good or extremely bad.
01/27/2005 04:43:14 PM · #19
I really wish people would comment no matter how "harsh" they may feel they are being. I entered my first challenge with the breaking new ground challenge and i only got 4 comments. I joined to improve! So comments are exactly what I want.
People who get stressy about the comments they get need to look at them differently to see that people are simply trying to help.
Why are you entering photos if you don't want feedback??
Lighten up!
01/27/2005 04:46:01 PM · #20
Originally posted by Nusbaum:

I do not believe artists, and I'm including photographers as artists, should ever attempt to defend or justify your work.<snip>

As a viewer of art, the artist's reasons are not relevant,however every class in photography and graphic arts I have ever taken is based on the notion of the "crit" where everyone puts up thier work, and in turn you "defend" the peice. That is you explain what you were trying to do and what steps you tok to get the effect persented.

Once the group knows this they shred your work within the context of that intent. If you wanted to make a particular point and failed but made a pretty peice then to the crit you failed because they knew what you tried to do. The explanation of intent does not inform the quality of the work, but allows the artist to know if they achived their intent. Anyone can tell you if you made a nice picture, only those you inform can tell you if you hit your target.
01/27/2005 04:52:44 PM · #21
Originally posted by The Four Bears:

they just want someone to say, "Ooh, that's pretty. Aren't you a clever chap".


lol I love the word "chap". But I digress..it's normal to worry what people will think of you no matter what situation you're in. Feel free to repress those feelings and to not really give a poo.
01/27/2005 04:52:49 PM · #22
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

I disagree. Dialogue is fundamental in helping others to understand your perspective.

If somebody helps me to understand their vision by explaining the circumstances around a photograph and, as a result, I gain a true appreciation for the work, are we both not better off?

Edit: I understand what you're saying but that statement was pretty sweeping...


Ya, I didn't articulate my post very well. Conversation about the goals and impacts of a photo is wonderful and should be encouraged. But, there is a difference between discussion and a defensive reaction. Perhaps I should have said an artist should be open to discussing their work, but they should never attempt to defend or justify.
01/27/2005 04:58:47 PM · #23
Originally posted by Nusbaum:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Dialogue is fundamental in helping others to understand your perspective.

If somebody helps me to understand their vision by explaining the circumstances around a photograph and, as a result, I gain a true appreciation for the work, are we both not better off?


...Conversation about the goals and impacts of a photo is wonderful and should be encouraged. But, there is a difference between discussion and a defensive reaction.


if you're being honest and tactful, then you should be open for dialogue. you should ignore the pm's that want to argue with you the same way you would if you spent a lot of time working on a soft-focus image and got a lot comments telling you it should be sharper. just grin and bear it.

if you want to avoid potential negative feedback, i recommend either the bag-head or putting a warning right at the top of your profile DO NOT PM ME DURING A CHALLENGE.

i personally don't mind. it's a good gauge for me as to whether or not i'm doing a decent job commenting--meaning that i'm learning as well as helping the artist in some way. i just hate reading back through the terse and blunt comments i've left...i don't really think they were useful to anyone.
01/27/2005 05:00:43 PM · #24
If you stopped voting because you recieved a PM after a comment would you stopped posting in forums if someone disagreed with one of your posts?
01/27/2005 05:02:03 PM · #25
Originally posted by faidoi:

I received a rude PM from someone (who will remained nameless) about not even having a SLR camera, so what do I know.
<snip>

If somebody believes photography is about having a specific kind of camera, then they obviously don't know that much about photography. (What about ranger finders, view cameras, medium format, toy cameras, pin hole cameras, etc.) Anyway... you should pity their lack of understanding rather than interalizing their comments and letting them take something away from you.

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