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03/14/2005 05:43:32 AM · #1
Well I will probably get ripped for 'speaking out' but I for one feel pretty let down by the results in the AA challenge, the top images all seem to me to lack the one special element that AA shots had - that is detail.

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With the 1st place image the sky has been neatimaged, not too much of a problem there although does look a bit too silky smooth - but the bottom half of the image seems to lack any fine detail. May be my eyes :D

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This image placed 2nd and to me is most unlike Ansel Adams - a wonderfully composed shot, but there is no detail in any part of this image? And I am surprised so many people obviously like and find this style effective..

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Again Neatimage comes into play - look at the sand? In my world sand is made up of fine particles of grit.

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Well I don't really need to say anything about this? The horses look like they are angels or aliens with that huge glow around their heads.

What is it about Neatimaged photographs that people seem to like?
I am obviously in the major minority here just by looking at the results. I use it occasionally, but only because I know my photographs will score better without detail - so maybe that's it? But then I find that wrong, taking photographs that you personally don't like. (hence my lack of submissions)

Is there anyone else here that has a distaste for neatimage or am I the only one?

When I look at the AA shot that came 11th (?//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=184449) The first thing that jumps out at me is texture and detail.

03/14/2005 05:54:17 AM · #2
Umm, that's wet sand. You don't see particles and grit, NI or no, on wet sand. Feel free to click here and see an unedited (only cropped and resized) piece of sand from my entry.

I'm not going to object to your criticism, but you're off on the NI bit. I don't disagree about my entry being rather non-AA, otherwise, but the detail that was there to see (at least by my G5) is in the photo.
03/14/2005 06:02:38 AM · #3
I would like to add some thanks to those people who took the time to comment on my image "Ansel Rose"
It got the placing i predicted it would but i am very happy with this image and more than happy by said comments.

Again thanks

Darren

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Message edited by author 2005-03-14 06:08:43.
03/14/2005 06:06:11 AM · #4
I actually like all the winning photographs, and so do many others by the comments left.
Your rose is lovely too Brookied, and you do have some fab comments.

debbie
03/14/2005 06:23:51 AM · #5
Congratulations to the winners. Great images.
03/14/2005 06:33:54 AM · #6
I voted 3 tens in this challenge 1st place 2nd place and 14th.

I thought it was a challenge to use Adams technique which all the winners have and I congratulate them.

The 14th place pulled the Adams Style into a modern cityscape that alone was a terrific achievement.

From what I read about this Adams fellow he was all for post processing and if he lived into the digital age he probably loved neat-image.
03/14/2005 06:54:39 AM · #7
I think it's a bit harsh to call the top finishers a disgrace. If you are such an Ansel Adams expert, where is YOUR entry? If you are so passionate about Ansel Adams, certainly you could have done better. So why didn't you?
03/14/2005 06:58:51 AM · #8
Originally posted by Telehubbie:

I think it's a bit harsh to call the top finishers a disgrace. If you are such an Ansel Adams expert, where is YOUR entry? If you are so passionate about Ansel Adams, certainly you could have done better. So why didn't you?


Disgrace maybe bit harsh yes I agree.

As for doing better, I never said I could do better did I? Although doing better in my book would be a sharp picture with details, however that wouldn't rank better so would be pointless in a discussion.
03/14/2005 07:19:38 AM · #9
Before this turns into a tit-for-tat, I think it's fair to recognise that Jon's opinion, while strong (and perhaps with a thread title likely to anger some people!) has a considered foundation. I think this challenge, more than most, examplifies the strong sway towards digital art rather than photography. There were way too many shots in this challenge that relied on Photoshop to achieve the illusion of drama, intrigue, contrast, lighting and depth of tone. It was exactly as I had expected and predictability is ultimately boring.

Yes, Ansel Adams used dodge, burn etc. but he did it tastefully to enhance his vision of a scene, not to replace missing appeal or a strong or unusual focal point. I share Jon's disappointment in the main, although I think Mocabela's beach shot is well observed, nicely composed and features well an interesting subject.

For what it's worth, here are a couple of forgotten gems in the pack:
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03/14/2005 07:43:53 AM · #10
jonpink's comments, as is often the case are abrasive, however consider his folio which contain some of the most superior landscape work I have seen on this site, I take him very seriously and have to respect his general and specific comments about a challenge which largely consists of landscape. jonpink makes a valid criticism which comes from his own aesthetic point of view and I must appreciate that.
03/14/2005 08:19:24 AM · #11
no, the only disgrace is insensitive threads like this one! Congrats to the winners :)
03/14/2005 09:16:24 AM · #12
Originally posted by Jacko:

Congratulations to the winners. Great images.


+1
03/14/2005 09:20:43 AM · #13
Originally posted by Seanachai:

no, the only disgrace is insensitive threads like this one! Congrats to the winners :)


Insensitive? Was the AA challenge a sensitive subject?
Just my opinion you do not have to agree with it.

BTW, thanks André :D

03/14/2005 09:29:23 AM · #14
Originally posted by Seanachai:

no, the only disgrace is insensitive threads like this one! Congrats to the winners :)


I very much appreciate when people express their opinions, even if i do not agree.
We are all mature enough, we can and should take criticism, if anything, elaborate on your opinion so it is clear to us why you think Jonpink's post is disgraceful
To call his opinion insensitive and disgraceful is to just an attempt to shut him up or advice him in covering it up in a nice package which in turn would end up in not being his opinion

03/14/2005 09:30:46 AM · #15
i don't think popular votes on anything are necessarily guidelines for something being the best-i know i have quite different tastes than the voters for the most part, but really does it matter? I don't like the movies that win the Academy awards much either.
Are the ones that won valid takes on the assignment -yes, and they won so they deserve it. I like the blue ribbon but it wasn't my favourite..and that's ok.
I like that jonpink makes us think here...it is another part of the process..another chance to look at what I'm doing. Thanks for that.
03/14/2005 09:37:59 AM · #16
Originally posted by jonpink:



Just my opinion you do not have to agree with it.



I don't, and I will leave it at that.
03/14/2005 09:48:37 AM · #17
Originally posted by jonpink:

Originally posted by Seanachai:

no, the only disgrace is insensitive threads like this one! Congrats to the winners :)


Insensitive? Was the AA challenge a sensitive subject?

Not a sensitive subject, but sensitive photographers. While I largely agree with your evaluation of the general nature of many entries, I, like just about everyone else, am going to have a negative emotional reaction to having my photo called a disgrace -- I don't think that should be surprising at all.

I personally find that couching my criticisms in non-inflammatory and emotionally-charged terms will get it heard, without compromising the actual content. While I feel people should also be free to express themselves as they wish, I think the abrasive route is less effective at getting people to incorporate your suggestions.
03/14/2005 09:51:31 AM · #18
Originally posted by Brookied:

I would like to add some thanks to those people who took the time to comment on my image "Ansel Rose"
It got the placing i predicted it would but i am very happy with this image and more than happy by said comments.

Again thanks

Darren

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Well, I gave out 4 "10's" this challenge, and this was one of them. I was surprised that this did not finish better.

Congrats on a wonderful image!
03/14/2005 09:55:35 AM · #19
Originally posted by jonpink:

Well I will probably get ripped for 'speaking out' but I for one feel pretty let down by the results in the AA challenge, the top images all seem to me to lack the one special element that AA shots had - that is detail.

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With the 1st place image the sky has been neatimaged, not too much of a problem there although does look a bit too silky smooth - but the bottom half of the image seems to lack any fine detail. May be my eyes :D


I could not agree with you more on this image. (But I'm not complaining about the result. :) )

The best and most AA-like image in the challenge, in my opinion, is this one:
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It has it all.

Message edited by author 2005-03-14 09:56:49.
03/14/2005 09:58:20 AM · #20
I think jonpink may have come on a little strong with his opinion and although i may not agree with all of it, I appreciate it for it's expressive honesty, knowing it's going to upset some people. I know if I finally won a ribbon, I would be upset if my winning shot was called a disgrace. I must admit that i was a bit upset to see the number 4 shot place where it did condidering not just the glow but the fact that they were on animals who were the subject and foreground of the shot which, although no expert, i have not seen a shot of in an ansel adams photo. (alot of my viewing knowledge comes from calanders. lol) anyway i really liked my entry, I learned a valuable lesson about editing on a laptop in a lowlit hotel with a fading battery. The adjustments looked fine on the laptop but came out very grainy. <<<<embarassing.
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03/14/2005 10:02:13 AM · #21
Originally posted by stdavidson:

The best and most AA-like image in the challenge, in my opinion, is this one:
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It has it all.


That should have been within the top 10 at least.
03/14/2005 10:03:01 AM · #22
Originally posted by stdavidson:

[quote=jonpink] Well I will probably get ripped for 'speaking out' but I for one feel pretty let down by the results in the AA challenge, the top images all seem to me to lack the one special element that AA shots had - that is detail.

I could not agree with you more on this image. (But I'm not complaining about the result. :) )

The best and most AA-like image in the challenge, in my opinion, is this one:
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It has it all.


How cool is that?
03/14/2005 10:03:18 AM · #23
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

The best and most AA-like image in the challenge, in my opinion, is this one:
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It has it all.


That should have been within the top 10 at least.


I agree
03/14/2005 10:06:10 AM · #24
I think, overall, that this challenge was disapointing. Just not enough contrast used, overall...my only 10 didn't reach the top 10, and the two 9's I gave didn't reach the top 20.

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10, 9, & 9 respectively.

Stephanie
03/14/2005 10:14:58 AM · #25
An element I was expecting in this challenge was wide angle with visual elements from within a foot or so of the camera to infinity all in sharp focus and with lots of detail. I have been surprised at how few photos seem to have been made this way. Was I wrong to expect this to be an essential element in AA's style (I guess so.) Wasn't this one of a very tiny handful of crucial elements mentioned in the AA thread just before the challenge?
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