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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Landscapes should never ever be black and white
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Showing posts 26 - 44 of 44, (reverse)
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04/26/2005 05:46:44 PM · #26
As I believe has already been stated, in colour images it's the colour that grabs your attention. If the colour is subdued or you are doing a BW or duotone or any other image where the number of colours is very very small then texture and contrast is what is needed to grab your attention. If the image has the right qualities then by all means convert to BW, it doesn't matter what it is.
04/26/2005 05:54:28 PM · #27
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I don't think there are any blanket statements that can apply to any facet of photography.

04/26/2005 06:01:24 PM · #28
Originally posted by LarryKlug:

What I have learned over the last 30 years is: generally color images are best when the subject is colorful! If there is very little color in what you are shooting, why not go with B&W. I have also found that B&W usually creates more dramatic an image than color in many situations. So basically use what makes sense.


Exactly. Who's to say seeing that as I started shooting I didn't decide that the colours present in the scene weren't bland and ordinary and yet it makes for a dramatic b/w. Which would be better a bland landscape or a dramatic b/w. I know which I'd choose!
04/26/2005 06:03:58 PM · #29
Originally posted by coolhar:

Using B&W before color became an alternative is different than using it in the digital age.

Color is the norm nowadays, and it is B&W that is unusual. You should have a reason for going from color to B&W. Here at dpc, because we are a learning/teaching site, you can get away "I was trying to learn the conversion technique" as your reason a lot more often than on the outside. Along with teaching conversion technique we also teach when to use it, and when not to. We could be doing a better job of teaching that point.

When I see a B&W shot here at dpc my reaction is often "the photog blew the exposure and tried to salvage it by converting".


Just to make it clear, coolhar, I shot a fairly monochrome image straight out of the camera, had nothing to do with blown exposure.
04/26/2005 06:08:02 PM · #30
I am a human being (duh, I know *g*)
My eyes SEE IN COLOR .
I like the way my eyes work, I enjoy the rich variety of colors I am capable of seeing.
When you show me a picture in black and white, you are limiting my experience, you are taking away things I take for granted.

Yes, there are times where it is good to do something different, even if it is somewhat "less" than it could be. Change is good for us.
Some black and white photos are very nice indeed.

But overall, more often than not, I like the whole shebang, not a "watered down" version of the real thing.

If you (the b&w fanclub, that is) feel you're entitled to your opinion, then so do we (the ones that prefer color)

Quit telling US that we "don't get it".
04/26/2005 06:12:00 PM · #31
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I think often seeing an image in black and white allows us to pay more attention to the light and shape and tones, instead of the colors. Many photos would be less interesting in color than in black and white.
04/26/2005 06:12:18 PM · #32
Originally posted by pgatt:

I thought this comment was slightly amusing - about my Free Study entry - that b/w is good for portraits and man-made things only? Discuss.


No worries. I'm the opposite of this commentor. There are few color shots that I really like unless they're abstract or just way out there. I thought your entry was quite nice....nice tones, etc.
04/26/2005 06:28:12 PM · #33
Originally posted by coolhar:



Color is how our cameras work in their normal default mode. To get to B&W you have to convert in software, or switch your camera to another mode. The only time when B&W was the norm was when color was not yet available.


Color has been available for almost 100 years, so your comment makes no sense. Changing modes from color to B&W in a digital camera is no different than loading B&W film instead of color in a film camera. It depends on what the photographer is trying to capture.

I often capture a color image fully intending to convert it to B&W. I don't do it because I "blew the shot", but because converting from color to B&W gives me more information to work with in PSP. I would suggest that you be very careful about generalizing.
04/26/2005 06:35:13 PM · #34
Originally posted by coolhar:


Color is the norm because most pictures are color. Color is the first choice of the masses. And especially in the digital realm, where images are almost always color before they become B&W.

This statemnt is just not true. "most pictures" are NOT in color. Visit //www.photosig.com and you'll see that almost as many B&W shots as color are posted. It is totally an artistic decision.

There are very good reasons to shoot a color image that you fully intend to convert to B&W. When you go to editing the image you have more information to work with than if you start with a B&W image.

Message edited by author 2005-04-26 18:37:38.
04/26/2005 06:44:43 PM · #35
Originally posted by Beetle:

I am a human being (duh, I know *g*)
My eyes SEE IN COLOR .
I like the way my eyes work, I enjoy the rich variety of colors I am capable of seeing.
When you show me a picture in black and white, you are limiting my experience, you are taking away things I take for granted.

Yes, there are times where it is good to do something different, even if it is somewhat "less" than it could be. Change is good for us.
Some black and white photos are very nice indeed.

But overall, more often than not, I like the whole shebang, not a "watered down" version of the real thing.

If you (the b&w fanclub, that is) feel you're entitled to your opinion, then so do we (the ones that prefer color)

Quit telling US that we "don't get it".


The main goal of photography is for the artist to convey an image in a way that he wants the world to see it . . . the way the artist envisions it. If all we're going to do is preserve an image in exactly the way that it appears in the world, what's the point? That's why two photographers can be in the same place at the same time, taking a photo of the same subject, and the images will come out so different.

Saying that B&W images are somehow inferior to color images because your eyes see color is denying the creative abilities that we all have. One is not better than the other, they are just different. Thank goodness we don't all see things in the same way.

Message edited by author 2005-04-26 18:46:43.
04/26/2005 06:57:52 PM · #36
That would be my comment... *lol*

And Yes, i'll be the first to disagree with myself. There are quite a few landscapes that do very well in black and white. Especially memorials.

But I am a water person....and well...your photo left me frustrated. It looked like a gorgeous day, and I was left really wanting to see the blues of the sky and water. And they just weren't there to be found.

I guess, in a lot of ways I felt like the photo had stolen the colors from a environ I'd love to have seen in color.

I also, at the time, was sick of all the B&W done on the abandoned building. I love B&W...in fact I am quite partial to it. But B&W and sepia started to feel like a fad where so many images in so many challenges were converted to B&W.

Here I saw a photo the landscape of which shouted "colors" and there were none to be had. I felt it just did not deliver. (I think I still rated it pretty well as I thought it was a superb composition.)

On the flip side, I am taking BradP's comments to heart and going to review how I structure my comment. I did not mean for it to come across as an attack or an insult. If you could of heard my voice you'd have known that but alas text does not denote inflection of voice.

I still stand by my opinion that this was not the best composition to compose toward the monochrome side of things.

It is true there is no facet of rules in photography, and IMHO rules are to be broken. I get nailed on the "rule of thirds" for many entries but I am strange, I like centered photos of certain perspective angles. *shrug* So I take them....

However, I do think that in general certain images tend toward being better in color or in B&W (and many can be either). I believe when clear water and skies are portrayed in a what is obviously a bright shot than color often is much more appealing in general. However, take the same shot on an overcast day that's already gray and the B&W appeal greatly increases.

Nature shots are often better in color when they are large panoramic views. But become much more acceptable when it's detailed and up close.

In the case of the birch tree photos, you already have an object that in certain lighting conditions is essentially near the monochrome scale and such tend toward great B&W. Historically manmade structures, buildings, farms, cemetaries do very well im B&W...IMHO.

But as Beetle said....we (most of us) see in color. Albeit, B&W is nice when it can eccentuate the contrasts. If this photo just focused on the pier, then the B&W would appeal much more to me. However, once you add the broad angle of the water and the sky dotted with clouds - I am left feeling as if you took something away.

This is just my opinion...and an arrogant one at that. And if my comment came across as insulting, my apology. I so much liked the composure but felt at such a loss in this case as I truly wanted to see the colors.

Sincerely,
Jason "The Saj"

PS - I'd be very interested to know what effect using said photo with it's contrast as a contrast map for an identical photo in color would have....*ponder*

PPS - i take after my role model the Apostle Peter...with the oft "open mouth insert foot" repentence... ;)
04/26/2005 07:02:58 PM · #37
Leesc,

I did check out the link you gave. And although there were thousands of B&W. I scrolled thru a dozen or so pages. And did not see a single one that was an image of open water and an open sky. Most (even the water or sky ones) were strongly focused on a man-made object taking up the vast majority of the image canvas.

In fact, if I were to review those I'd say the support my supposition.... *shrug*
04/26/2005 07:12:15 PM · #38
Jason, I didn't mean it as an insult to you, nor did I take your comment as such. I appreciated your time and thoughts. However, as I have repeated, I didn't take this in colour and intend for it to be converted, nor did I take it in colour and use b/w to cover a poor shot. I took a monochrome image, mostly because it was so "bright a shot" as you say, and a vast majority of the colours were bleached out anyway. As I said, it was fairly bland in colour. In any other case, I might be much more willing to agree with you. Having said all that, as an art-form I think b/w is just as valid, and doesn't have to be discarded just because we have cameras that shoot in colour by default. Voting in the free study, I didn't drill anything down, because it was such and such a shot but was in colour. I think we need to learn to take each photo on it's own merit.
04/26/2005 07:39:02 PM · #39
Originally posted by coolhar:

You should have a reason for going from color to B&W.

I come from a different school of thought on this one. I believe that you shouldn't use color unleass there is a reason for it!

Originally posted by coolhar:

When I see a B&W shot here at dpc my reaction is often "the photog blew the exposure and tried to salvage it by converting".

Actually it is much more difficult to make an excellent b/w shot than it is to make an excellent color shot...
04/26/2005 07:43:32 PM · #40
Originally posted by ahaze:

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I think often seeing an image in black and white allows us to pay more attention to the light and shape and tones, instead of the colors. Many photos would be less interesting in color than in black and white.


This is a very beautiful image.

Barry
04/26/2005 08:37:46 PM · #41
I don't see where anyone in this thread said that B&W is inferior to color. So why are the it's fans getting so offended and defensive? Preferring B&W or color is a matter of taste, neither is better than the other.

I do think that anyone who considers PhotoSig (or dpc for that matter) as representative of photography is missing a quite a bit. It's not.

Color may have been around for a hundred years....in the laboratory. It came into common usage in the late 50's and early 60's.

If you think about all the photos taken on any given day, worldwide, by far the vast majority of them are in color, maybe as high as high as 90%. Even the automated cameras that snap speeders and red light runners produce color images, because they better identify the subject.

Originally posted by leesc:

The main goal of photography is for the artist to convey an image in a way that he wants the world to see it . . . the way the artist envisions it.
That's a very limited view that excludes a lot of photography, perhaps most of it. Many genres shoot to reproduce as exactly as possible what was before the camera so that others may see it though they were not present. The is no "artist's vision" involved. But that's not to say that the "artist's vision" type of photography is any more or less valid or important.


04/26/2005 08:56:18 PM · #42
Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by coolhar:

You should have a reason for going from color to B&W.

I come from a different school of thought on this one. I believe that you shouldn't use color unleass there is a reason for it!

TC, I have no problem at all with your school of thought. It fact I think you are saying somewhat the same thing as I am, with the only difference being one based on taste. I respect everyone's right to have an individual taste.

Originally posted by coolhar:

When I see a B&W shot here at dpc my reaction is often "the photog blew the exposure and tried to salvage it by converting".

Originally posted by TooCool:

Actually it is much more difficult to make an excellent b/w shot than it is to make an excellent color shot...


There is a higher than usual proportion of converted-blown-exposure type shots here at dpc because of the way we do the learning/teaching thing. That's a good thing. I have even seen the photog say that is why they converted in their description. But I'm sure I get that initial reaction in some cases where it is inaccurate. It just comes to mind when I see a B&W that I don't think is very well done.

I am not knowledgeable enough to say which is harder between color and B&W so I'll accept your thoughts on that point.


04/26/2005 09:47:46 PM · #43
"art-form I think b/w is just as valid, and doesn't have to be discarded just because we have cameras that shoot in colour by default."
[[[On that I am very much agreed. Believe it or not, and this will seem funny. But my g/f was contemplated taking Photo III and was debating whether to do B&W or Color this time. And I kid you not, every day for like two weeks I was like....if you do B&W I'll buy you the paper and supplies. *lol* Sadly, turned out to be in conflict wiht her schedule and not taught by the teacher she liked. *lol* So I am an avid supporter of the retension of B&W.

And perhaps if i saw the washed out day I might have likely concurred. Part of the problem may be attributed that we just went thru a 14 day period of sunny blue skies with only a single rainy day. Now that might not seem a big deal to BradP and San Diego but here in Connectict, southern New England. Well...let's just say that Boston won the world series. And the next time we get two weeks of sunny days in New England the Boston Red Sox will win the Superbowl.
]]]

Great B&W composition Barry. See to me that is adhering to my rule of index finger and taking advantage of B&W to show added contrast and detail.
04/26/2005 10:31:11 PM · #44
B/w works fine when you want viewer to focus on the texture instead of the landscape colors.

If I want to show fall colors of course B/W will not work.

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