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07/15/2005 12:29:52 AM · #26
Since you didn't seem to care about composition, and I was feeling lazy, I just took a picture of the field across the road :).

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Matrix

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Partial

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Average
07/15/2005 12:34:57 AM · #27
Wow... I havent done this type of test shooting in awhile...
I am still catching up with commenting on everyones pictures. I hope to be finished and caught up by the weekend...I have been searching for my manual all over the place looks like I need to take a break and then it will more then likely jump out and bite me...:)
So here are some shots I took this evening. I only have one regret, I didnt have my tripod... Though I did neal on the ground to hold steady and got my knees all wet :)
I ended up changing the settings in my auto settings for 3 and in the maual settings for 2...
I don't know why I but I always wait intil its dark or choose the hard subjects to shoot.. Though I have been wanting to try some shots with a lighted church steeple and since I had to be at church tonight my chance for the oppurtunity was there. :)
Night time and dark areas as well however are challenges anyways..
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My Favorite
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07/15/2005 01:56:57 AM · #28
Originally posted by cpickett:

Since you didn't seem to care about composition,


Not that I don't care but we're focused elsewhere.
07/15/2005 11:23:52 AM · #29
Sorry I am tardy, I try to shoot in manual mode and I rely on the exposure meter in the view finder. I pick the ISO depending on the conditions and from time to time I will venture into the other shooting modes if time permits.

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Message edited by author 2005-07-15 11:24:52.
07/15/2005 01:00:03 PM · #30
Originally posted by jtf6agent:

Sorry I am tardy, I try to shoot in manual mode and I rely on the exposure meter in the view finder. I pick the ISO depending on the conditions and from time to time I will venture into the other shooting modes if time permits.
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Fixed the links to the thumbnails.
07/15/2005 03:07:56 PM · #31
A bit late, but here are my images for Exercise 1:
The one I liked:
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and the one I wasn't happy with:
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I think I need to start carrying a notebook with me to write down what I do when exposing the shot -- maybe that would make me slow down enough to remember to consider everything I know I should.

David

Message edited by author 2005-07-15 15:10:26.
07/15/2005 03:44:11 PM · #32
Be back with the next assignment and comments tomorrow.....tied up with street appeal (spca) yesturday and today.
07/15/2005 08:59:00 PM · #33
Originally posted by Britannica:

{snip} ... I think I need to start carrying a notebook with me to write down what I do when exposing the shot -- maybe that would make me slow down enough to remember to consider everything I know I should. ... {/snip}


This is quite a qood idea and recommend you to do it too.

And while I have your attention, I would like to speak to the notion of slowing down. It is easy, especially with digital, to click away quickly and furiously without a lot of thought. Slowing down to think about: What you are shooting; What kind of light am I seeing reflected from my subject; What kind of light may be generated by things in my frame (street lights, say) ... and then deciding how should I set up my camera to best advantage ... slowing down and thinking will pay dividends in getting the right exposure.

Yes Digital is cheap. No film cost. But there can be a huge cost in the time you take to review the photos you take and narrow them down to what you want to work with. And there is monatary cost in film cards, hard disk space ...

Here is my personal (normally Aperture Priority) workflow. It may not be correct for every one or for every camera but it seems to work for me.
1) Think about subject and light that will fill my frame.
2) Choose metering mode based on (1) ... the subject of exercise 2.
3) Choose ISO that is likely to be close for my subject and lighting. Try to stay as far below 800 as I can.
4) Choose F Stop to give me my desired depth of field.
5) Check shutter speed. Make sure it is at least 1.5 times my focal length, so I can hold the camera steady. If not, adjust ISO (and/or F Stop if necessary) to boost shutter speed.
6) Check shutter speed to be sure it will be fast enough to capture any motion in the photo. Adjust ISO (and/or F Stop if necessary) to get correct shutter speed.
7) If I have a subject that will stand still, I will manually bracket EV (3 or 5 stops in 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments) to provide some insurance against exposure errors. I may also manually bracket F Stop to provide some DOF insurance. If it won't stand still, I may auto bracket what I am most worried about.

This isn't cast in concrete and I will vary it (I may use a similar Shutter Priority workflow if I am shootng fast action for example)... but this is where I start.

This results from my own personal bias. The the thing that is most important to me is DOF, so controling my F Stop is most important. The next most important thing is sharp crisp focus, which means a fast enough shutter speed to get what I want. The least important thing to me is ISO. The D70 isn't bad up to moderate ISOs (say 800) and I use Neat Image to reduce grain when I don't want it if I have to go to 1600. And finally, I often take pictures in places where it will be impractical to go back and reshoot. So buying some insurance with bracketing is helpful.

I am sneaking up on a future exercise, but I wanted to give you some food for thought. Be thinking about your own personal workflow, okay?

Message edited by author 2005-07-16 13:14:44.
07/16/2005 01:09:24 PM · #34
Due to an increased workload at work, one of our members has had to drop out of our Mentor Group. As a result, bcoble, who was first on our waiting list, has now joined our merry band. Welcome Bill!
07/16/2005 08:06:45 PM · #35
Thanks alot.
07/17/2005 12:19:52 AM · #36
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Ok, here are my three shots. I haven't had time to comment on any of the others yet....or my own for that matter. I've been working 12 hour days. I'll comment on everything tomorrow.

By the way...bcoble - welcome to the fun!
- Laura
07/17/2005 12:52:31 AM · #37
Assignment II
in order I hope will be Matrix,Center Weighted and Spot. I took a picture of my son in front of our salt water aquarium. I tried to do just the fish and eel but they haven't quite got the "Sit" command yet.

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Message edited by author 2005-07-17 19:05:36.
07/17/2005 12:58:50 AM · #38
Originally posted by jtf6agent:

Assignment II
in order I hope will be Matrix,Center Weighted and Spot. I took a picture of my son in front of our salt water aquarium. I tried to do just the fish and eel but they haven't quite got the "Sit" command yet.

//img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/jtf6agent/DSC_6754.jpg

//img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/jtf6agent/DSC_6755.jpg

//img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/jtf6agent/DSC_6756.jpg

OK can someone please letter for letter type out how my link should read? I cannot seem to grasp this part. VERY sorry. Was there a class on this?


Bit slow those fish of yours ;) my guppies do the sit really well now ....they just won't stay!!!! ' . substr('//users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/046.gif', strrpos('//users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/046.gif', '/') + 1) . '

replace the { with [

{url=//img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/jtf6agent/DSC_6754.jpg}jtfagents pic{/url} we have got a tutorial here somewheres......I'll go have a look for ya
07/17/2005 01:03:06 AM · #39
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07/17/2005 01:31:48 AM · #40
Originally posted by jtf6agent:

... OK can someone please letter for letter type out how my link should read? I cannot seem to grasp this part. VERY sorry. Was there a class on this?

No problem.
-- Open another browser window to the photobucket page with the thumbs of the pictures you want to post.
-- Click on the 'Insert Hyperlink' button above the textbox on the post page here on DPC (it's the one that looks like a globe).
-- in the first box, the one that says, "Insert the full URL for your link", enter the contents of the URL box directly below the thumbnail of the first image you want to post. Press OK.
-- In the second box, the one that says, "Insert the text for your link", enter the contents of the IMG box directly below the thumbnail of the image you you entered the URL for above. do no press OK yet
-- In the text you just entered, look for the filename. It will be in the form 'something.jpg' and add 'th_' in front of it to make it 'th_something.jpg'. Note that something is the actual name of the file and not the word 'something'.
-- now press ok.

David

BTW: I was wondering when this problem was going to come up. We have no way of leaving the comment with the photo now.

Message edited by author 2005-07-17 02:45:57.
07/17/2005 02:01:21 AM · #41
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Both of these were taken a few seconds apart. At first I did not know what I had done. After reviewing the exif file (up until now, I did not know how to access this information.)

It appears both were using normal mode, which I use alot. One the ISO was 100 and the other it was 200. Up until this evening I did not know what I had done.

Message edited by author 2005-07-17 02:06:12.
07/17/2005 10:39:01 AM · #42
I need to ask a really dumb question. I would like to post the exif information with my image. It is in a xmp file. I am unable to copy and paste the info. Any suggestions?
07/17/2005 10:59:15 AM · #43
Originally posted by bcoble:

I need to ask a really dumb question. I would like to post the exif information with my image. It is in a xmp file. I am unable to copy and paste the info. Any suggestions?


If you use Photoshop ... go to File/File Info and you can copy most of the EXIF data from there and paste it into the "Details" section when you upload a photo. Panasonic has software that came with your camera that will display EXIF data (I think).

And there are EXIF readers available on the Internet. I haven't tried it but here's one. I just Googled EXIF Reader and got lots of hits. Good luck.

It is actually very helpful to post camera data, because it is a record of what the camera did setting-by-setting. Often, this will help diagnose exposure issues. I encourage you all to do it.

When I post a photo for a DPC challenge, I post "Photographer's Notes," "Post Processing" steps, and "Camera Data" in every submission. You can see it if you open the thumbnail below. I get my camera data from Nikon's Picture Project software (the only thing I use it for, actually.)
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Message edited by author 2005-07-17 11:02:52.
07/17/2005 02:03:04 PM · #44
Have to redo Assignment 2 today......got my 3 shots yesturday and then realised that camera was still on man mode not auto. Will post tonight.
07/17/2005 06:15:43 PM · #45
Checkpoint: We've been at this for a bit and have mostly completed 2 exercises. I'm having fun and learning a lot. I hope you are, too. I am delighted with your participation. Thanks! Could you PM me and let me know if we seem to be on the right track. If you think a mid-course correction is needed or you have some specific suggestions, I'd love to here your thoughts.

Timing: My goal was to ask you to do 2 exercises a week. I am not sure if that's the right pace or not. But in any event, your fearless mentor will be on vacation starting mid-day Monday US Pacific Daylight Time (PDT) until end of day Friday. So it will give you a chance to get caught up with your photos and commenting if you're behind. I won't have internet access so I'll be going dark for a few days. Don't worry. It doesn't mean I've lost interest, just that I am shooting rather than mentoring for a few days.

Payback: We have two new challenges with deadlines of today and Tuesday. I have entries in both. I will be superbly embarassed if my exposure in each isn't essentially perfect. (Maybe you'll be able to spot them due to the perfection of their exposure?! lol) When the voting is over, I would ask you to look at my Zoo and Texture entries and thoughtfully and seriously comment on my exposure. Obviously this isn't SOOTC but I welcome your thoughts. When I make comments, it helps me refine what I do and I'd like you to get in the habit of commenting on other's photos. It will make you better and it will share what you are learning here.

Next Exercise: I hope to post exercise 3, with David's help, this evening or tomorrow morning. We will be moving further into the realm of controlling your camera to get the results you want. I think you'll enjoy it.

Message edited by author 2005-07-17 20:23:30.
07/17/2005 08:00:39 PM · #46
Exercise 3: Insuring Your Exposure

Here’s the thing and there’s no getting around it … when we take a photo, there are a lot of decisions we make all at once: Metering mode; ISO, White balance; Aperture, Shutter speed; Focus … not to mention subject, composition et al. Getting it all perfect takes time, care and a subject that will hold still. I don’t know about you but for me, I can rarely get all this right. I’d like to buy some insurance against a bad exposure. Enter stage left – Exposure Value Compensation.

The way I buy insurance involves 2 concepts: Bracketing and Exposure Value Composition. By bracketing I mean taking the same photo but varying exposure above and below what you camera tells you. And by Exposure Value Compensation I mean adjusting the exposure your camera records in 1/3 or 1/2 stop increments above and below what you camera tells you.

You camera will have a setting for exposure value compensation. On my Nikon, I can twist a dial and move it down 1, 2, 3, … or more increments – or up 1, 2, 3, or more increments. And I can set the increment to be 1/3 or 1/2 a stop. Your camera will probably be able to do this too. When I have a nice patient subject … say a hard boiled egg in an antique egg cup on top of my grandmother’s best linen table cloth … I do this manually. I take a photo minus 2 “clicks”, minus one, at zero, plus one, and plus 2. Then if I’ve made an exposure error, the insurance I’ve bought will usually give me at least one perfectly exposed photo.

David has written a nice piece here that explains what’s going on with exposure value and Exposure Value Compensation and I recommend you to read it. Thanks David!

If I have a subject that won’t stand still … for example, NASCAR racing for the Sports challenge, a few ducklings for the Family challenge, or a Komodo Dragon for the Zoo challenge … I can’t practically bracket manually. Things just happen too fast! Fortunately I can set my camera to “auto bracket” and it will record 3 or 5 images every time I press the shutter release, just as though I had done it manually.

Exercise 3 Homework: Go to your camera’s manual and learn what your camera can do regarding adjusting Exposure Value. Also learn if and how your camera can auto-bracket EV comp.

Exercise 3 Photos: Using either manual or auto bracketing, take five photos of a pile of macaroni on the plate of your choice, brightly lit by indirect light (no flash and not in direct sunlight – kitchen counter with kitchen lights is fine but feel free to knock yourself out and to knock my socks off!) Use a tripod if you have one, otherwise don't sweat it. These should be EV bracketed -2, -1, 0, +1 and +2. Use what you've learned so far and strive for your very best exposure but let bracketing EV buy you some insurance. You decide whether each increment is 1/3 or 1/2 stop. Upload your photos to your portfolio and post them to this thread from -2 to +2 increments. In the same post along with your thumbnails, summarize briefly what you learned from this exercise, about EV comp, about bracketing, and about your camera.

Extra Credit: You can also bracket F Stops, Shutter Speeds, ISO and so on to buy different kinds of insurance. If you have time and the inclination, explore a wider range of bracketing. No need to post results. This is a personal exercise and is entirely optional.

Deadline: Recall I'm on vacation next week ... so your deadline is end of day Saturday the 24th US Pacific Daylight time.

Message edited by author 2005-07-17 20:29:54.
07/17/2005 08:02:39 PM · #47
Here are my three. I tried this indoors under normal light and did not see any difference. So these, with no concern over content, using normal settings and AF.

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(.)

The question is knowing which one to choose prior to the shot.

Message edited by author 2005-07-17 20:16:44.
07/17/2005 10:07:12 PM · #48
Originally posted by Digital Quixote:

... I can set my camera to “auto bracket” and it will record 3 or 5 images every time I press the shutter release, just as though I had done it manually. ...

Is the shutter firing for each image, or is this some form of in-camera post processing that lightens or darkens the image. I ask because my camera doesn't have something like this. I can set it to bracket, but I have to hold the shutter release while it takes and stores all of the exposures. It just doesn't sound like the same thing as your one click and it writes several images to the card.

David
07/17/2005 11:47:37 PM · #49
I have a Rebel 350, so I may not have a clue what I'm talking about. But if his is anything like mine, I have to either press the shutter button once for each exposure, or set the drive mode to "continuous", and hold it down, while it exposes the photos. Also the canon will only do three photos, instead of five. Now that may be different on the higher end ones.

Also, to a certain extent, couldn't this be done with RAW and Photoshop? I know it's best to get it right, without post processing, but if you totally mess it up, it's at least minimally fixable.
07/18/2005 02:18:54 AM · #50
Originally posted by cpickett:

I have a Rebel 350, so I may not have a clue what I'm talking about. But if his is anything like mine, I have to either press the shutter button once for each exposure, or set the drive mode to "continuous", and hold it down, while it exposes the photos. Also the canon will only do three photos, instead of five. Now that may be different on the higher end ones.

Yes, that is how mine works -- I have to hold the button down if I want it to take more than one exposure. The manual says my camera will do 5 brackets, but it's always greyed out. Maybe the camera just doesn't have enough internal memory to handle more than 3 at the max size. I'll have to try shooting at lower resolutions and see if the option becomes active.

Originally posted by cpickett:

Also, to a certain extent, couldn't this be done with RAW and Photoshop? I know it's best to get it right, without post processing, but if you totally mess it up, it's at least minimally fixable.

Yes, exposure adjustments can be made in photoshop. Actually, from my perspective, anytime the image is made lighter or darker -- in whole or in part -- it's an exposure adjustment. So, the exposure could be corrected in post processing, and indeed may have to be in some cases, but since every action taken in camera and during post processing changes the image and has the potential to lose detail, the earlier it can be 'got right' the more detail and clarity the image is likely to have.

That is also something I've been thinking on today after finishing the article linked above. It is obvious that details are lost when the image is severely over or under exposed -- after all, blown highlights and blocked shadows are gone completely. But as that level of over or under exposure is reached the detail gradually disappears. I've been pondering the question, 'just how far away from perfect exposure can I go without noticable loss of detail?' I don't have an answer yet, as I'm still trying to come up with a series of tests I could do to find out. It's something I am planning on looking into this coming week -- I will of course share any conclusions I may come to on this.

David
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