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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> black & white
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Showing posts 1 - 16 of 16, (reverse)
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09/12/2005 02:53:55 AM · #1
I'm pretty sure most digital cameras nowadays would have the option of shooting black & white photos directly on the camera, so we dont have to remove all colour using our computers during post-processing to get a black & white photo.

I'm just curious. Does it matter WHEN we do it? Does selecting black & white in the camera allows for better dynamic range or something? or sharper, etc?

Thanks, I'm a noob.
09/12/2005 02:56:09 AM · #2
Personally, I'd rather shoot in color and do my own post processing to achieve the B&W effect. Much more control over tones and contrast this way, AND I still have a color version of the photo to boot.
09/12/2005 03:01:51 AM · #3
Originally posted by Bran-O-Rama:

Personally, I'd rather shoot in color and do my own post processing to achieve the B&W effect. Much more control over tones and contrast this way, AND I still have a color version of the photo to boot.


Same here.
09/12/2005 03:37:05 AM · #4
Ditto

As I understand it, if you desaturate in PS then you still have the colour sliders to play with, much like coloured filters when shooting on B&W film. If you desaturate in camera, that extra data is never stored, so you either use STOOC or bin it.
09/12/2005 03:47:30 AM · #5
Here's a little experiment for you, if you have photoshop:

Take a color picture that you think you might like to have in B/W. Open it in photoshop and save as "image_name_greyscale". Go to "Image/Modes" and choose "convert to grayscale".

That's what the camera does.

Now open the same image again and save as "image_name_channels". Go to "image/adjustments" and open the channel mixer. Click the "monochrome" box. Now play with thr red, green, and blue sliders. See how you can "build" your monochrome image out of different proportions of red, green, and blue channels and dramatically change how it looks?

This is the digital equivalent of using red, green and blue filters over the lens with B/W film. You lose this flexibility if you shoot in camera B/W mode. Even though you may add filters as if it were B/W film, you're stuck with one filter. Even if your camera allows you to use DIGITAL color filtration in B/W mode, you're still stuck with what you dial in.

On the other hand, if you are doing a LOT of B/W images, and are SURE you want them B/W, and aren't too picky, then B/W mode can be very useful as far as saving time in processing.

R.
09/12/2005 03:50:01 AM · #6
Originally posted by bear_music:

Here's a little experiment for you, if you have photoshop.....


As always Robert, your knowledge and considered response is much more than I can ever extrapolate onto paper....
09/12/2005 04:46:20 AM · #7
I prefer to shoot in color and have total control on converting my image(s) to b/w. Although, lately I have been practicing shooting in b/w with my camera. I do believe it's possible to shoot a very nice b/w's straight from the camera (cannon 20D)...perhaps a little curves needed, but not bad. I still think digital b/w photos still needs more time to improve. Never can beat 35mm Film, Silver Prints....

Heres a couple samples:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/10055/thumb/230415.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/10055/thumb/230415.jpg', '/') + 1) . ' ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/10055/thumb/230416.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/10055/thumb/230416.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
Before and After

Don't even bother to comment on the after just quite yet, it's still needs adjusting but I think the over tones of the before shot looks good for digital.

Message edited by author 2005-09-12 05:27:55.
09/12/2005 05:06:43 AM · #8
Originally posted by dustin03:

Never can beat 35mm Film, Silver Prints....


Already have. Right combination of camera, printer and software puts film and silver in the grave.
09/12/2005 05:24:28 AM · #9
Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by dustin03:

Never can beat 35mm Film, Silver Prints....


Already have. Right combination of camera, printer and software puts film and silver in the grave.


Well, that's great to hear. I guess I still admire older prints or say classic b/w. Digital is the way to go these days and it will improve over the years. If it hadn't already...:)

Edit: Your portrait of "Daniel" is suburb. Zoning and everything. Is this straight from your cam?

Message edited by author 2005-09-12 05:33:10.
09/12/2005 05:46:22 AM · #10
Originally posted by dustin03:

Edit: Your portrait of "Daniel" is suburb. Zoning and everything. Is this straight from your cam?


Thank you. All I did was desaturate the individual color channels in Hue/Saturation, and added the desired tone in Color Balance. I think I also cropped a little off the top to ajust the composition.
09/12/2005 06:02:26 AM · #11
Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by dustin03:

Edit: Your portrait of "Daniel" is suburb. Zoning and everything. Is this straight from your cam?


Thank you. All I did was desaturate the individual color channels in Hue/Saturation, and added the desired tone in Color Balance. I think I also cropped a little off the top to ajust the composition.


Again, great shot.....I must say that the 1Ds mark 2 is a fine camera. (see: "The Corpes Bride" all shot with a digital Cannon 1d's) So, this was shot in color then? I'm currios if anybody or you have produced more than satisfiing b/w's straight from the camera. Better than 35mm silver prints?...of course there may need a little correcting....

09/12/2005 06:32:26 AM · #12
When taking colour photos, each colour channel (red, green, blue) is stored with 8 bits of information... ie 256 different levels.
So a colour photo can contain 256x256x256 different levels of light... quite a lot!
If you force the camera to take b&w photos, it will only store in 8 bits, so you only get 256 different levels of light per pixel. You're throwing away a lot of data.
It's much better to use the channel mixer in photoshop which gives you millions of levels per pixel to play with rather than be stuck with 256 levels which will show deterioration when using levels and curves.
09/12/2005 06:38:24 AM · #13
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

When taking colour photos, each colour channel (red, green, blue) is stored with 8 bits of information... ie 256 different levels.
So a colour photo can contain 256x256x256 different levels of light... quite a lot!
If you force the camera to take b&w photos, it will only store in 8 bits, so you only get 256 different levels of light per pixel. You're throwing away a lot of data.
It's much better to use the channel mixer in photoshop which gives you millions of levels per pixel to play with rather than be stuck with 256 levels which will show deterioration when using levels and curves.


Hmmmm, good to know! Visually b/w's from the camera appear to fine. However, when we throw in technical data and facts of color information, it makes a huge difference....
09/12/2005 06:38:26 AM · #14
Opps doubled posted

Message edited by author 2005-09-12 06:50:31.
09/12/2005 07:33:08 AM · #15
Originally posted by nsbca7:

Originally posted by Bran-O-Rama:

Personally, I'd rather shoot in color and do my own post processing to achieve the B&W effect. Much more control over tones and contrast this way, AND I still have a color version of the photo to boot.


Same here.


me three!
09/12/2005 07:35:13 AM · #16
Originally posted by bear_music:

Here's a little experiment for you, if you have photoshop:

Take a color picture that you think you might like to have in B/W. Open it in photoshop and save as "image_name_greyscale". Go to "Image/Modes" and choose "convert to grayscale".

That's what the camera does.

Now open the same image again and save as "image_name_channels". Go to "image/adjustments" and open the channel mixer. Click the "monochrome" box. Now play with thr red, green, and blue sliders. See how you can "build" your monochrome image out of different proportions of red, green, and blue channels and dramatically change how it looks?

This is the digital equivalent of using red, green and blue filters over the lens with B/W film. You lose this flexibility if you shoot in camera B/W mode. Even though you may add filters as if it were B/W film, you're stuck with one filter. Even if your camera allows you to use DIGITAL color filtration in B/W mode, you're still stuck with what you dial in.

On the other hand, if you are doing a LOT of B/W images, and are SURE you want them B/W, and aren't too picky, then B/W mode can be very useful as far as saving time in processing.

R.


Right on bear!
Might I also suggest these settings, AS STARTING POINTS!
red 74
green 26
blue 48
constant -12
then play with them to find the look you are going for!
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