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09/14/2005 07:27:44 AM · #51
Originally posted by notonline:

Here's another thought. since there is 2 open challenges running at the same time, why not make it rolling so we can maybe plan for a better shot or have more time. ie.

This week:
Bubbles AND Rules Of Thirds.
Next week:
Rules of thirds AND insert that challenge here


Are you suggesting rolling 2-week deadlines or two separate Rule of Thirds challenges?

-Terry
09/14/2005 07:29:06 AM · #52
I think he is suggesting two separate challenges......either way it will be a nice experiment.

Message edited by author 2005-09-14 07:29:38.
09/14/2005 07:29:37 AM · #53
i guess time will tell, but this seems excellent
09/14/2005 07:33:44 AM · #54
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by notonline:

Here's another thought. since there is 2 open challenges running at the same time, why not make it rolling so we can maybe plan for a better shot or have more time. ie.

This week:
Bubbles AND Rules Of Thirds.
Next week:
Rules of thirds AND insert that challenge here


Are you suggesting rolling 2-week deadlines or two separate Rule of Thirds challenges?

-Terry


2 seperate. As in if you enter it this week you CANNOT enter it the second week because you didn't like your score, results or the other challenge available.

edit: congrats to rex on over 6000 profile views.

Message edited by author 2005-09-14 07:34:27.
09/14/2005 08:30:10 AM · #55
It's a creative solution which shows that DPC listens. Thanks!

(I'm not big on notonline's idea, though...I really wouldn't want to vote on two identical challenges for a month straight)
09/14/2005 08:31:03 AM · #56
Originally posted by e301:

Could I suggest that the information about only being able to enter one Open Challenge at a time be put in the challenge description(s)? Once this thread is off the home page, and for those who don't spend all day every day here (yes, there are such people) it'll be confusing.

E


I agree, I didn't even think about it until I saw that the poll didn't have an option for "both"...this should be put in the challenge descriptions.
09/14/2005 09:11:49 AM · #57
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

I'm not big on notonline's idea, though...I really wouldn't want to vote on two identical challenges for a month straight


How do you get a month straight???
for clarification purposes:
week 1
1 bubbles
2 Rules of thirds
week 2
1 rules of thirds
2 The next challenge (whatever it may be)
week 3
1 The Next challenge
2 The challenge to follow
week 4
1 The challenge to follow
2 The next following challenge.
etc.
This way we could have more time to shoot which should produce better shots and if by chance we mis one we would have the oppertunity to enter the following week provided the shot was taken within that weeks challenge. It saves them from trying to come up with as many newer topics then necessary as well.
09/14/2005 09:25:31 AM · #58
I love this idea all the way around, DPC definately deserves my membership money, and then some. Speaking of....

Another idea that could contain the level of entries, would be to charge a membership fee, even for the open challenges. This would also decrease the level of people not serious about photography, and delay any future occurances of over-population.

Im sorry to be the one that had to mention it, but I am broke, and I definately understand budgets, but its not to much to ask for with a site so extravagantly done, and for a serious Photographer.

Message edited by author 2005-09-14 09:28:18.
09/14/2005 09:28:08 AM · #59
Originally posted by sacredspirit:


Another idea that could contain the level of entries, would be to charge a membership fee, even for the open challenges. This would also decrease the level of people not serious about photography, and delay any future occurances of over-population.


Originally, nothing on the site required a paid membership, it was all free. When D&L added member benefits, they promised to always keep what had been free, free, and only to add additional benefits for the paying members. That's part of what makes this site so neat. :)
09/14/2005 09:28:52 AM · #60
GREAT IDEA!!!! I haven't entered a challenge since the "Texture" challenge which had an overwhelming number of entries.
09/14/2005 09:31:21 AM · #61
Love it!
09/14/2005 09:44:27 AM · #62
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Two topics and only being able to enter one is a great idea. It would also be beneficial to look at the two topics coming up and try to make sure they would have equal levels of appeal, or try to anyway. It would help balance the number of entrants in those two challenges.

I'd like to see two different levels of difficulty, one similar to previous open challenges (or slightly more difficult) and one that is targeted toward beginners. For beginners, you could just grab a photography "textbook" and make a challenge based on its chapters. For example, use //www.photoworkshop.com/canon/lessons/ and have a challenge that highlights a different lesson each week). Or set up your own lesson plan (you could limit this to members only).

IMO, if you seperate the challenges by difficulty, each challenge may have equal appeal even though each "track" of challenges appeals to two different groups.
09/14/2005 09:46:52 AM · #63
Originally posted by sacredspirit:

Another idea that could contain the level of entries, would be to charge a membership fee, even for the open challenges. This would also decrease the level of people not serious about photography, and delay any future occurances of over-population.

I completely agree. The open challenges are nothing more than "Member-subsidized Challenges". Actually, anything free about the site (including the forums) is "member subsidized". I personally think DPC would be much higher quality -- in terms of photographs, comments and forum content -- if entering challenges, posting in the forums (others could still read) and leaving comments was limited to members instead of just registered users.
09/14/2005 09:47:03 AM · #64
Excellent. The open challenges were getting huge.

You might consider adding a note to the challenge descriptions or something for those that don't browse all the forums. I went looking for this thread since there wasn't a 'both' option in the poll, but some people might not notice and think they can enter both, work hard on both, and be very disappointed when it's time to submit.
09/14/2005 10:10:46 AM · #65
Originally posted by Judi:

Is there any chance we can move the poll down the page somewhat...very annoying hitting the update button and having to scroll down each time too....pretty please?

Judi


Yes please.. this is hard on update addicts
09/14/2005 10:15:36 AM · #66
Originally posted by notonline:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

I'm not big on notonline's idea, though...I really wouldn't want to vote on two identical challenges for a month straight


How do you get a month straight???


Nevermind, I'm not sure what I was thinking...I'm still not big on the idea for several reasons...voter fatigue, a better idea for the 2nd challenge entries of what to expect, etc.
09/14/2005 11:23:28 AM · #67
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Originally posted by notonline:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

I'm not big on notonline's idea, though...I really wouldn't want to vote on two identical challenges for a month straight


How do you get a month straight???


Nevermind, I'm not sure what I was thinking...I'm still not big on the idea for several reasons...voter fatigue, a better idea for the 2nd challenge entries of what to expect, etc.


But thats the beauty of it as you can only enter one out of the 2 challenges.
09/14/2005 12:02:27 PM · #68
I like the idea. I think I would give a bushel of roses to the person who put this together.... But of course I won't.

I think the challenges should always change. I don't think it is important that shooters have choices to make. In any case, it allows for people to think more about what they have shot and think more about how to work it into the challenges. I got the real feeling that so many people have been just taking whatever pictures they have for the week and submitting them. I think this will actually train people to be more selective.

I was actually going to post a thread on this today as a website suggestion.

I think this is definitely the way to go.

As far as voter fatigue is concerned, I don't think that is an issue at all. I think there will be less votes in each category, but overall, more people will vote because voting on 20% of 200 pictures is much less time consuming for busy people than voting on 20% of 400 pictures.

I wonder if it is possible that the votes could be made cumulative for other challenges. It would be nice if you spent the time to vote on 20% of 180 images (36) in one challenge and then only have to vote on 5 more in the second challenge with 205 to make your votes count because you passed 20% in one challenge. (IE once the total votes in one challenge = 20%, the number of votes for that challenge is added to the votes made in the other challenge, to reduce the number of votes required in that challenge to make it count)

This would encourage people to vote on entries in sufficient numbers to make it worthwhile, but also encourage ones who felt that there were too many images to vote on. This is remembering that generally the minimum number of votes is to discourage trolls. (or perhaps wrongly assuming the above point?)
09/14/2005 12:21:21 PM · #69
I like having an optional challenge theme as this expands the opportunities to acquire an appropriate image. This scheme may dilute the voting somewhat, but that should not be a significant consideration.
09/14/2005 12:31:30 PM · #70
Originally posted by notonline:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Originally posted by notonline:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

I'm not big on notonline's idea, though...I really wouldn't want to vote on two identical challenges for a month straight


How do you get a month straight???


Nevermind, I'm not sure what I was thinking...I'm still not big on the idea for several reasons...voter fatigue, a better idea for the 2nd challenge entries of what to expect, etc.


But thats the beauty of it as you can only enter one out of the 2 challenges.


Yeah, but you would be voting on both versions of the challenge.

And you eventually would divide up dpc into two groups...especially those that enter every challenge they can. You would either be in the group that enters a challenge the first time or the group that enters a challenge the second time...

09/14/2005 12:33:33 PM · #71
great idea and hope it works......
09/15/2005 02:25:26 AM · #72
Originally posted by langdon:

As DPChallenge continues to grow, so do the number of weekly challenge entries. Open challenges routinely draw 400 or more entries a week, and many have reported that they find it difficult to vote and to comment meaningfully on that many entries.

...

Through the end of September, we will be running two Open Challenges per week; however, you will only be able to enter one of those challenges each week.

...

As always, we welcome your feedback on this experiment, and we especially welcome your constructive suggestions for improvement.

I don't mean to be a nay-sayer admists all the cheers -- and I certainly all for more challenges each week -- but I'm not understanding how limiting the submissions is going to address the perceived issue.

Having more challenges increased the likelihood of inticing those more selective about challenge topics, along with those who enter everything -- resulting in greater total submission than with a single challenge. As the stated purpose is to ease the strain on those who feel there is too much to vote and comment on -- I just don't see what results were intended or hoped for with this experiment.

It can be argued that they don't have to vote or comment on both -- but they also don't have to vote or comment on all entries in any one challenge. 20% is plenty for voting and comments should remain the bonus they are; a little extra given when they have something to say about the image.

The immediate response to statements like the above ar requests to limit the voters to only one of the challenges -- and has already been requested in this thread -- but I don't feel restricting feedback benefits anyone.

If the voters are forbidden voting on the challenges they enter, they lose the greatest source of gain this site has to offer -- the evaluation and ranking of different takes on the same theme. Sure they could still browse the entries, but voting adds a structured evaluation that simply isn't there when just browsing. I feel the site would be doing the participants a disservice by forbidding the voting on challenges they have entered.

On the other hand, I don't feel the site would benefit from restricting the voters to only those challenges they have entered -- as it would deprive all from a chance to expand perspectives. For those who have entered images, they would be deprived of the viewpoint of those who where more interested in the other challenges -- leaving them with input only from individuals with similar interests. Likewise, the voter is deprived of the benefits of a structured evaluation of a theme they were less interested in during the submittal phase.

Personally, I feel the voting and commenting should be left as it is -- open and voluntary to all who wish to vote and comment. I am not one of those that feel there are too many in the challenges -- far from it -- but, like so many things, how much is too much is a matter of personal taste. But by all means bring on more challenges -- the variety will do us all some good. ;)

Three cheers for more challenges:

Hip hip hurray!
Hip hip hurray!
Hip hip hurray!

I just don't see what is expected or hoped for from this experiment that is intended to address the perceived issue. Perhaps I'm just missing something.

David
09/15/2005 02:37:39 AM · #73
Originally posted by Britannica:

It can be argued that they don't have to vote or comment on both -- but they also don't have to vote or comment on all entries in any one challenge. 20% is plenty for voting and comments should remain the bonus they are; a little extra given when they have something to say about the image.

The two scenarios are wildly different. There's a large number of us who would rather vote 100% on challenge-1 with 250 entries, and 0% on challenge-2 with 350 entries, than 20% on a monster-challenge with 550 entries.



Message edited by author 2005-09-15 02:39:47.
09/15/2005 02:49:33 AM · #74

what if it stil grows to more 400 pics in a challenge, should there then be 3, 4, 5 or .... open challenges in a week?



Message edited by author 2005-09-15 03:34:32.
09/15/2005 03:03:00 AM · #75
Originally posted by notonline:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

I'm not big on notonline's idea, though...I really wouldn't want to vote on two identical challenges for a month straight


How do you get a month straight???
for clarification purposes:
week 1
1 bubbles
2 Rules of thirds
week 2
1 rules of thirds
2 The next challenge (whatever it may be)
week 3
1 The Next challenge
2 The challenge to follow
week 4
1 The challenge to follow
2 The next following challenge.
etc.
This way we could have more time to shoot which should produce better shots and if by chance we mis one we would have the oppertunity to enter the following week provided the shot was taken within that weeks challenge. It saves them from trying to come up with as many newer topics then necessary as well.


Not sure I like this idea at all. The second week of each subject would have the first weeks ideas to use as the seed. I would predict that the week 1 ribbons would be emulated in the second week. This has the same effect as publishing outtakes before the challenge begins. This wil kill innovation and there will be a drift towards entering challenges in the second week only.
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