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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> OK...Who cheated 4-5am challenge?
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 63, (reverse)
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12/21/2005 03:03:27 AM · #26
Originally posted by KiwiPix:

... The rules said you had to "get up" and "take" your photo between 4 and 5...

I would have had to DQ my shot if I entered. I am always up at 0400...well still up. Hazards of a night shift worker.
Must agree with following the letter of the challenge here. If it was not meant for between 0400-0500, then it should have been Night Photography II (or III, wherever we are at).
12/21/2005 03:09:09 AM · #27
Didn't cheat, but someone commented that mine looks like it was taken at 7am instead of 4-5am. I wonder why. He didnt say. Feedbacks would be appreciated. Thanks
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12/21/2005 03:19:04 AM · #28
I didn't enter this challenge and I am somehwat of a challenge nazi, but I firmly believe in the way the challenges operate: The "Rules" are defined in the Basic and Advanced editing rule descriptions and breaking those is cause for DQ and could be considered "cheating". The challenge description has never, with the exception of the rubber duck challenge, been criteria for DQ, nor considered "cheating" if one did not follow the description.

While I do understand the emotional reaction a little, I think if you really go through the history of challenges here, you would find this should not be called "cheating". "Tricking" - ok, but not cheating.

By KiwiPix logic, the challenge said "Set your alarm..." So whoever actually Stayed up late and did not set their alarm are technically guilty of not following the rules either. Maybe a better example is the "Shoes" challenge: "...Bare your sole and take an interesting photo of shoes." (note the plural) - here is KiwiPix entry:
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ONE shoe. Cheater? I don't think so. Anyway there are much better examples if you look for them. The point is that the site relies on the voters to take care of the DNMC issue, which they do, and if someone can fool the voters into believing it met the challenge, then for all intents and purposes, it did.

And not one person commented during the coting that birds don't fly at night. ;-)

Anyway that's my take on it.
12/21/2005 03:31:54 AM · #29
Dammit Art, ya got me:) The other one was there too, always wished I'd had the toe just in frame on the right :)

Brett
12/21/2005 03:34:37 AM · #30
Why do we do these challenges?

For me, I want to push my photography in new directions, try new things, and learn. We can debate the specifics of the challenge descriptions… but I want to mention the intention. The intention was to make us (most of us anyway) get out and try something different. Leave our comfort zones and take late night/early morning photos. I went out at that time… I didn’t like any of my shots enough to enter, but I was lost in the different lighting, different subjects, and different challenges I was faced with. Anyone who did “cheat”… I recommend you go try again… not for a virtual ribbon, but for the experience.
12/21/2005 03:44:46 AM · #31
Originally posted by ShotMD:

Why do we do these challenges?

For me, I want to push my photography in new directions, try new things, and learn. We can debate the specifics of the challenge descriptions… but I want to mention the intention. The intention was to make us (most of us anyway) get out and try something different. Leave our comfort zones and take late night/early morning photos. I went out at that time… I didn’t like any of my shots enough to enter, but I was lost in the different lighting, different subjects, and different challenges I was faced with. Anyone who did “cheat”… I recommend you go try again… not for a virtual ribbon, but for the experience.

Bingo. I'm not saying you should forget the rules just because you think you could get away with it, but you are correct about what it's all about, so Patrinus got a virtual ribbon, which I think he deserved according to the rules and the past precedents, but missed out on the experience you described.

There will always be controversy and I have learned to try and have faith in the group as a whole - even when they let you down and a shoe-horned image gets high ranking or a ribbon - I've seen plenty of those, but it's all about your own experience moreso than the comparison or competition with others.
12/21/2005 03:44:51 AM · #32
Originally posted by ShotMD:

Why do we do these challenges?

For me, I want to push my photography in new directions, try new things, and learn. We can debate the specifics of the challenge descriptions… but I want to mention the intention. The intention was to make us (most of us anyway) get out and try something different. Leave our comfort zones and take late night/early morning photos. I went out at that time… I didn’t like any of my shots enough to enter, but I was lost in the different lighting, different subjects, and different challenges I was faced with. Anyone who did “cheat”… I recommend you go try again… not for a virtual ribbon, but for the experience.


I agree with this and the argument.

To say that you tricked people is probably correct but when we as the voters were under the impression that the photo would be taken between 4.00 - 5.00 am it's not much of a trick.

I don't think I would personally feel satisfied if I scored well in this challenge and did not abide by what I consider the intent of the challenge description.
12/21/2005 03:50:40 AM · #33
Originally posted by keegbow:

Originally posted by ShotMD:

Why do we do these challenges?

For me, I want to push my photography in new directions, try new things, and learn. We can debate the specifics of the challenge descriptions… but I want to mention the intention. The intention was to make us (most of us anyway) get out and try something different. Leave our comfort zones and take late night/early morning photos. I went out at that time… I didn’t like any of my shots enough to enter, but I was lost in the different lighting, different subjects, and different challenges I was faced with. Anyone who did “cheat”… I recommend you go try again… not for a virtual ribbon, but for the experience.


I agree with this and the argument.

To say that you tricked people is probably correct but when we as the voters were under the impression that the photo would be taken between 4.00 - 5.00 am it's not much of a trick.

I don't think I would personally feel satisfied if I scored well in this challenge and did not abide by what I consider the intent of the challenge description.


It comes down to trust at the end of the day.
12/21/2005 05:37:45 AM · #34
Personally if ya feel the need to cheat then your only cheating yourself... [/quote]

Well said McQuinn.
12/21/2005 05:53:53 AM · #35
Originally posted by patrinus:


.....We could call scalvert a cheater for using glue instead of milk in this photo' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/371/thumb/222157.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/371/thumb/222157.jpg', '/') + 1) . '.....

This is self-serving nonsense.
The Dairy challenge did not say you had to USE milk, it said take a photo that RELATES to milk or milk products.
THIS challenge did not say take a photo that RELATES to 4 and 5a.m., it said take a photo BETWEEN 4 and 5a.m.
12/21/2005 05:54:52 AM · #36
I think many of us here are confusing between challenge rules and challenge topic.
Topic is not a rule and need not be adhered to, and each person is free to make of it what he or she feels best.
12/21/2005 06:17:43 AM · #37
it's a frekin' website, a game..... whoever finds a way to complain about things like these. Please get a life and let the others have fun please. Because it's all about fun and nothing else.

Will you guys put in your resume, I have won 2 ribbons on DPChallenge?

Too bad this thread went wrong.
12/21/2005 12:04:37 PM · #38
Originally posted by sangeeth:

Topic is not a rule and need not be adhered to, and each person is free to make of it what he or she feels best.


I am surprised at how many people here don't think the challenge topic is important to adhere to! I've seen this come up in several discussions. Isn't that the whole purpose of this site? I understand that there are challenges that are open to some interpretation, but I agree with many of the above that this was pretty cut and dry as to what was required. I didn't even submit my photo for this challenge because I thought it sucked, but it was taken between 4-5am. I had about 10 other choices I liked better, but I didn't submit them BECAUSE it was after 5am by the time I took them!
12/21/2005 12:41:32 PM · #39
Originally posted by patrinus:

I placed the truth in my photo description so that everyone would be able to know what this shot was actually about.


We don't see the description when voting and the title has Moonlight in it - I can see why people could take that the other way.

I guess I learnt something new that I didn't fully understand before - the challenge description should not limit what I photograph and enter.
12/21/2005 12:46:03 PM · #40
Originally posted by sangeeth:

Topic is not a rule and need not be adhered to, and each person is free to make of it what he or she feels best.

That's just plain nonsense.
This site is about "challenges". A number of people go to a great deal of time and trouble to come up with challenge ideas and descriptions. Now why would they do that if none of it needs to be adhered to? Why bother to have challenges at all? Why have a week to submit and vote? Hell, lets just have an open site with no rules or structure - then we could all just have fun - yeehah.

If you like taking photographs but don't want to be bound by rules, there are plenty of places to do that. Surely this is not one of them.

Brett
12/21/2005 12:49:24 PM · #41
There's no prize here, no penalty for breaking the rules - it's a forum for improving your photographics skills by taking on defined challenges with your virtual friends around the world. It works because we have a common set of boundries for the shot in question, and everyone pretty much stays within the agreed-upon rules.

It is pretty clear that the letter and spirit of this challenge was to take a photo precisely between 4:00 and 5:00 AM. Shooting outside of that window was cheating - allowed since it didn't break the basic/advanced rule sets - but cheating. I didn't enter this challenge - I got up and took a series of shots within the description's time window, but wasn't satisified with the results. Had I had the full 24 hr window and felt comfortable with "faking" the times slot, I am sure that I would have had something worth entering.

It's not that different from playing in a golf tournament with an inflated handicap. You are playing the same game as everyone else, but have given yourself an unfair advantage.

Nothing was won here. Nothing was lost here - but trust.
12/21/2005 01:22:15 PM · #42
sorry
i thought photography was the art of capturing an illusion.

I also thought it was clear that the challenge discription was not a rule.

How wrong i am!
12/21/2005 01:26:05 PM · #43
If a tree falls in a forest with no one to hear it, then does it make a sound?

If an entry fails to meet a Challenge guidelines but there is no way for voters to verify that, is it a DNMC?

Nordlys
12/21/2005 01:34:42 PM · #44
Everyone has to feel comfortable with how they approached the challenge. Noone can tell them different.
12/21/2005 01:48:29 PM · #45
Originally posted by seancgn68:

I am surprised at how many people here don't think the challenge topic is important to adhere to!


I didn't say that the topic isn't important. I am one of the topic anal people when voting. Not one person said that my shot does not meet the challenge. Therefore as a photographer I did my job. It was not the intention of this thread to bash people for not taking the shot during the supposed critical time period. Since this thread has gone so awry it's also probably the last I will post here...
12/21/2005 01:49:06 PM · #46
I have seen lots of posts talking about "other people's effort" put in this challenge... I have put a lot of effort in lots of shots that just sucked and I bet there have been incredible shots ribboning that required very little effort (not the case of my photo in discussion). Art is not related to effort, it's related to beauty and illusions.

If it helps I did live the 4-5am experience in a freezing morning and I very much enjoyed, I even got some very interesting shots. When I saw my bird shot, I noticed that I could make the illusion, that lots of people (and myself) would feel happy about that illusion, that I could tell a story and (I hoped) make someone wish they'd taken the shot. I think it all worked as I hoped. I didn't intend to cheat, I just intended to create something new.

I have been thinking whether to submit or not my original image for validation because if I dont submit it then I would be refusing a ribbon that I didn't fully earn... after second thoughts I say it wouldn't be fair to reject a ribbon for an image that voters decided to put where it is now... should I now 'cheat' on the site's rules and not submit my validation?, should I let the voters down? I think not.
12/21/2005 01:57:05 PM · #47
Call me dense but I don't get this art = illusion thing. Art is what it is. It may be an illusion but then again it may not be.
12/21/2005 01:59:27 PM · #48
Hmmmmm I love self justification! LOL
12/21/2005 02:21:01 PM · #49
Originally posted by patrinus:


I have been thinking whether to submit or not my original image for validation because if I dont submit it then I would be refusing a ribbon that I didn't fully earn... after second thoughts I say it wouldn't be fair to reject a ribbon for an image that voters decided to put where it is now... should I now 'cheat' on the site's rules and not submit my validation?, should I let the voters down? I think not.


Patrinus, I encourage you to submit your original for validation. You took a great shot and I was pleased to see it ribbon.

Not meeting the challenge is not grounds for DQ. We all know this, it's in the rules and it is stated clearly.

As long as all the real rules were followed, as a member, I'd be glad to see your ribbon stand.

12/21/2005 02:24:46 PM · #50
My moon photo was taken at 6.40pm but i had little choice as it was well below the horizon at 4am. I really thought a few people would spot this as it was one of the few photos that could be checked. This was my backup photo for the challenge as i was going to shoot the geminid meteor shower at 5am on the 13th but was clouded out.

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