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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Duotone Legality in PSP
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Showing posts 1 - 25 of 83, descending (reverse)
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02/27/2006 10:53:26 AM · #1
Originally posted by gloda:

The tutorial is here!


Nice tutorial!

I never really understood how to use blend ranges effectively, your examples really helped bring some clarity into them.

Thanks!

02/26/2006 09:03:33 AM · #2
To make the difference between monochromes and duotones clearer: try to create a tritone with Rose's method.
02/26/2006 08:55:20 AM · #3
Originally posted by gloda:

Originally posted by kirbic:

(in PS, don't know PSP equivalents)
3.) Image>mode>duotone and make your settings or load the saved profile


This is what I'm getting at. The duotone option is not available in PSP. Next step: do you consider the means or the ends for duotones? I followed that recent thread about DrJones DQed image a bit, so I guess it's the ends that count?


In PSP8, if you go to the "help" then "index" and put in the word "duotone", (or even if you look under the information for "colorize", it will mention duotone) you will see a tutorial, if you will, on how to produce a duotone image using PSP.

1. Convert to Gray Scale
2. Increase image to 16 million color bits
3. Take to "colorize" and choose color and sat

Pretty simple procedure in PSP really. Nothing complicated.

You can also do the same effect using a similar conversion in this way:

1. Go to "image"
2. Select "split channel"
3. Select "RGB"
4. Take the blue, green, or red image and .....
5. Take to colorize and choose color and sat

Both really have the same effect, but process one is what PSP tells one to do to achieve the effect verbatim. Whereas process two was just something I stumbled upon.

Rose

Message edited by author 2006-02-26 08:59:38.
02/26/2006 07:04:44 AM · #4
The tutorial is here!
02/16/2006 07:00:19 PM · #5
To sum it up, we are narrowing in here on THE major inconsistency in the basic rules.

For just one example: SC have ruled that Photoshop CS2 "shadow/highlight" adjustment is legal in basic rules. But this adjustment is just a single-panel evolution of the cntrl-alt-tilde contrast masking technique that is available in earlier PS editions. You create a lyer masked for highlights and a layer masked for shadows, change the blending modes on each, and use layer-opacity changes to merge them together. This is exactly what "shadow/highlight" does in CS2.

The rules, as they stand now, because they are tool-specific rather than results-oriented, allow those who have bought the latest software an advantage over those who still work with earlier, less-automated versions.

R.
02/16/2006 06:05:53 PM · #6
As Manic said earlier, for basic editing it's the methods you use, not the ends you achieve which determine the legality.
If the rules were consistent, then Duotones/Tritones should be forbidden alltogehter, which would be stupid as well.
02/16/2006 04:32:33 PM · #7
Originally posted by gloda:

Timlu, what you adressed is one of the problems Bear_Music, the Site Council and I discussed on one of the first pages. Photoshop does use methods in the background which are not legal when done step-by-step. This does present an incongruity, but it does not allow users of other software to exploit the inconsistency.

In short, creating scripts will not solve the problem.


I totally agree that creating script will not solve the problem with the inconsistency. My question was; is it OK to use the scripts in GIMP (or the plug-ins in PSP) to achieve what PS can do? And, if so, is it then OK to make your own scripts or plug-ins to achieve whatever you want? If the answer to the first question is yes, this would mean that the answer to the second question is yes. If the answer to the first question is no, this would mean that you introduce a rule that stipulate what software you must use to enter a challenge. This is something like having a challenge wich only owners of Canon cameras are allowed to enter. Sorry, you have a DQ for using a Nikon camera in this challenge...
02/16/2006 04:19:18 PM · #8
Timlu, what you adressed is one of the problems Bear_Music, the Site Council and I discussed on one of the first pages. Photoshop does use methods in the background which are not legal when done step-by-step. This does present an incongruity, but it does not allow users of other software to exploit the inconsistency.

In short, creating scripts will not solve the problem.
02/16/2006 03:58:00 PM · #9
Originally posted by kirbic:

I skulked about a bit, and there are some plugins to add duotone functionality to PSP. They range in price from $15 to $54 from what I saw, so there are low-cost options other than a complete swap of editing software.
BTW, AFAIK, GIMP does not have built-in duotone, but I could be wrong.


I have read this thread through and something hit me when I read this. I use GIMP. In GIMP you have the ability to script pretty much everything. There are duotone-scripts and I would like to know if they are legal to use under basic editing. These scripts are GIMPs answer to plug-ins. If a duotone script is legal under basic editing even though the script uses features not legal under basic editing in the background (like what PS does in the background with the duotone option or what a duotone plug-in does in PSP) it would open up a whole new range of options for GIMP users who now can make a script for their favourite non-basic editing effect. IMO this would further undermine the basic editing ruleset. In the short run I think you should add an extra rule to the duotone challenge to open up the possibility for non-PS-users to create nice duotone pictures. In the long run a total review of the rulesets is necessary (which i know is underway).
02/16/2006 03:05:50 PM · #10
Well,

Let me be the first to announce that the #14 th place entry in the Broken ll challenge has been disqualified for using a duplicate layer.

Ugh! I'm going back to my old way... I hate layers now.

I'm looking forward to your tutorial Gloda. I'm not doing any more layers until I understand them better.
02/16/2006 03:00:36 PM · #11
Originally posted by frisca:

the only use of "layers" allowed in basic are adjustment layers (which contain no pixel data), not duplicate layers, because, as bear mentioned, they contain pixel data, and so are a big no-no in basic.


:(
02/16/2006 02:46:34 PM · #12
the only use of "layers" allowed in basic are adjustment layers (which contain no pixel data), not duplicate layers, because, as bear mentioned, they contain pixel data, and so are a big no-no in basic.
02/16/2006 02:32:36 PM · #13
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Gringo:

If you create a duplicate layer, it is exactly the same as the original and changing the opacity is permitted. So you can keep the original untouched and add several duplicate layers in any color you want and apply them evenly at percentages by adjusting the opacity. All legal under the basic rule set.


This is SO not true. Basic rules expressly prohibit additional layers that contain pixels. A duplicate of the BG layer contains pixels. It may not be used in basic editing.

R.


Thanks Bear, I just sent a request to the SC members asking for clarification on this. I am just getting into the use of layers so how they work and what information they contain is still a learning thing for me. I just don't see how a duplicate of the original layer can be any different than the unaltered original. If you are right here, I may have busticated a rule on my last entry.
:-/

Gloda, as you can see.... tutorials are a great help. I'll be looking forward to reading yours.
02/16/2006 02:06:12 PM · #14
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Gringo:

If you create a duplicate layer, it is exactly the same as the original and changing the opacity is permitted. So you can keep the original untouched and add several duplicate layers in any color you want and apply them evenly at percentages by adjusting the opacity. All legal under the basic rule set.


This is SO not true. Basic rules expressly prohibit additional layers that contain pixels. A duplicate of the BG layer contains pixels. It may not be used in basic editing.

R.


Hmmmmm ..... Even if it's an exact duplicate? It hasn't been altered or modified? It's the same as the original file in every way?
I would think anything you do to it that falls under the basic rules would be no different. I guess I don't understand the rules yet either.

:-/
02/16/2006 01:43:27 PM · #15
Originally posted by Gringo:

If you create a duplicate layer, it is exactly the same as the original and changing the opacity is permitted. So you can keep the original untouched and add several duplicate layers in any color you want and apply them evenly at percentages by adjusting the opacity. All legal under the basic rule set.


This is SO not true. Basic rules expressly prohibit additional layers that contain pixels. A duplicate of the BG layer contains pixels. It may not be used in basic editing.

R.
02/16/2006 01:37:48 PM · #16
It's not much of a problem for me. I have PSP X and PS:CS. I also wonder if I could just use PS and do a Duotone and save it and then edit it in PSP. I personally don't see that their would be a problem but what do I know.
02/16/2006 01:26:54 PM · #17
I've written a tutorial for doing duotones with PSP adn sent it to the admins. The methods are not legal for basic editing, but they should at least clarify some questions. Now we'll just have to wait for the tutorial to be hosted.
02/16/2006 01:01:42 PM · #18
Originally posted by tsheets:

Originally posted by Gringo:

Try this:

Open picture
Go to Layer – duplicate

Bingo – you can create as many layers and tones as you want – legal for basic, as long as the adjustments are applied evenly to the entire image.


You cannot have any pixel layers (aside from the original background) in basic. By duplicating the background you break the basic editing rules.


From the rules:
Layers: Only Adjustment Layers (or the non-Photoshop equivalent) may be used. An Adjustment Layer is one that does not contain any pixel data, but rather is a special, non-image layer that lets you experiment with color and tonal adjustments to an image without permanently modifying the pixels. Adjustment Layers must be applied in Normal mode. All other types of layers (including those that contain pixel data or masks) and all other blending methods (modes) are prohibited. Changing the opacity of an Adjustment Layer is permitted.

If you create a duplicate layer, it is exactly the same as the original and changing the opacity is permitted. So you can keep the original untouched and add several duplicate layers in any color you want and apply them evenly at percentages by adjusting the opacity. All legal under the basic rule set.


Message edited by author 2006-02-16 13:04:38.
02/16/2006 12:47:26 PM · #19
Originally posted by Gringo:

Try this:

Open picture
Go to Layer – duplicate

Bingo – you can create as many layers and tones as you want – legal for basic, as long as the adjustments are applied evenly to the entire image.


You cannot have any pixel layers (aside from the original background) in basic. By duplicating the background you break the basic editing rules.

02/16/2006 12:40:27 PM · #20
Gloda, can you post an example of what you are trying to do?
02/16/2006 12:36:44 PM · #21
Originally posted by gloda:

Gringo, by changing the opacity of multiple adjustment layers you'll always only end up with a blend of those colours. I.e. red and blue with blue at 50% will have tha same effect as a single violet layer.


I guess I don't understand. I have not found a color combo I haven't been able to hit.
02/16/2006 12:30:57 PM · #22
Gringo, by changing the opacity of multiple adjustment layers you'll always only end up with a blend of those colours. I.e. red and blue with blue at 50% will have tha same effect as a single violet layer.
02/16/2006 12:19:55 PM · #23
Try this:

Open picture
Go to Layer – duplicate
Go to Adjust – Colorize – and select colors (duotones, by the way)

Then go to Layers – Arrange - Select “Bring to the top”

Go to adjust – colorize

Go to Layers – Properties - Adjust the opacity

Bingo – you can create as many layers and tones as you want – legal for basic, as long as the adjustments are applied evenly to the entire image.

There are several ways to do this. you can split RGB and re-assemble RBB or RRG or any combo and then select - Adjust - colorize. All of these have worked fine for me in PSP.
02/16/2006 11:53:19 AM · #24
Originally posted by gloda:

Originally posted by singsunshine:

I think the description needs to be a little more details or maybe a definition of doutone. leaves too many people wondering what to do.

This thread is not about the current challenge but about the procedure as such.

Jansku: What you're getting are monochromes. Maybe it's easier to understand if you try to do a trirone or a quadtone.


Gloda, can't you just create tritones or quadtones with a duplicate layer and change the opacity?
02/16/2006 11:43:16 AM · #25
Originally posted by singsunshine:

I think the description needs to be a little more details or maybe a definition of doutone. leaves too many people wondering what to do.

This thread is not about the current challenge but about the procedure as such.

Jansku: What you're getting are monochromes. Maybe it's easier to understand if you try to do a trirone or a quadtone.
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