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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Duotone Legality in PSP
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Showing posts 51 - 75 of 83, (reverse)
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01/13/2006 05:30:47 AM · #51
First, I second wavelentgh, Kirbic's examples mix elements that are not affected by rules with elements that are.

I also agree with ursula, I don't necessarily want the basic rules to change, I would be much happier if we could find a valid workaround for the technique.

rsm707, I'm at school right now, but when I get home I'll give your method a try - from the examples you posted it does not seem to be what I'm after though.

And, just to clarify things, the post processing steps I posted in the beginning would be legal in advanced editing, right?
01/13/2006 06:44:36 AM · #52

I asked exactly the same question a few months ago. I certainly found the easiest way to do duotones in PSP is with multi-layers and blend ranges, but yes, this is technically 'illegal' in basic editing.

But, you can acheive the same effect by converting to BW, and then adjusting the manual colour curves. It is more difficult to get the same result, particularly when you're used the easier method of using layers, but with patience you can do it. You can also use the layers method, and reference the RGB histograms in trying to match the result.

More effort to go to a legal image of the same result. Yes, it's annoying, but so is having a cheaper camera. Expensive cameras can legally get very small DOF, but it's illegal to use a cheap camera and then blur the background with a paintbrush. :) Same applies to optical filters - perfectly legal, but you can't use a cheap camera and then add a graduated ND filter in software.

01/13/2006 11:09:42 AM · #53
Surfdabbler, your method seems to work, but only in a very limited way, and it would take tremendous work to achieve exact results. What's more, as far as I can see, you're limited to the three colours red green and blue. I don't manage to create, for example, an orange-violet duotone. The task seems to become even more difficult when you want only those colours, without for example green.
02/15/2006 08:36:49 PM · #54
I don't have Photoshop!!!
In Windows Picture manager You:
1. Select "Edit Pictures"
2. Choose Colour, Saturation to -100 (making a B/W (Grayscale))
3. Select "Edit Pictures" again to make this the new picture, now you edit your Brightness and Contrast and
4. Select "Edit Pictures" again and Select Hue where you choose the available colours (not many) and set the amount you wish.
5. Select "Edit Pictures" again and set the size etc.
Voila - Submit. ;-)
02/16/2006 08:41:18 AM · #55
I have been following this for the last few days.

I have been using PSP since version 5 and now using PSP X. And I also have PS:CS. But I mainly only use PSP. I understand the problems with trying to get the same results under PSP as PS. This maybe an illegal method under basic but here goes:

Image>Greyscale
Image>Increase RGB 8 Bit
Adjust>Color R/G/B (very hard to get the exact color you want)
Layers>New Adjustment Layer>Channel Mixer (uncheck monochrome then adjust the colors and I set layer blend mode to Hardlight)
Select Original layer
Adjust>Brightness & Contrast>Shadow/Midtone/Highlight (I like this step to add punch)
Adjust>Sharpness>Unsharpen Mask
Layers>New Adjustment Level>Curves
Layers>Merge Visible

I am sure its illegal somehwere in their.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/36078/thumb/296314.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/36078/thumb/296314.jpg', '/') + 1) . '' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/36078/thumb/296317.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/36078/thumb/296317.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

A different example:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/36078/thumb/296318.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/36078/thumb/296318.jpg', '/') + 1) . '' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/36078/thumb/296277.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/36078/thumb/296277.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Message edited by author 2006-02-16 08:47:30.
02/16/2006 10:37:21 AM · #56
I think the description needs to be a little more details or maybe a definition of doutone. leaves too many people wondering what to do.
02/16/2006 10:43:31 AM · #57
Originally posted by DustDevil:

I have been following this for the last few days.

Adjust>Color R/G/B (very hard to get the exact color you want)
Layers>New Adjustment Layer>Channel Mixer (uncheck monochrome then adjust the colors and I set layer blend mode to Hardlight)


From what I understand, as soon as you set the blend mode to anything but normal, it is not legal under basic. You can adjust the visibility level of an adjustment layer, but the mode must be normal.
02/16/2006 10:54:47 AM · #58
Emm. I only have PSP7 but I get legal duotones really easily?

Colors > Grayscale
Colors > Increase Color Depth > 16 Million Colors (24 bit)

And then pretty much anything goes from Colors > Adjust. For example, Channel Mixer, Color Balance and Red/Green/Blue.
02/16/2006 11:43:16 AM · #59
Originally posted by singsunshine:

I think the description needs to be a little more details or maybe a definition of doutone. leaves too many people wondering what to do.

This thread is not about the current challenge but about the procedure as such.

Jansku: What you're getting are monochromes. Maybe it's easier to understand if you try to do a trirone or a quadtone.
02/16/2006 11:53:19 AM · #60
Originally posted by gloda:

Originally posted by singsunshine:

I think the description needs to be a little more details or maybe a definition of doutone. leaves too many people wondering what to do.

This thread is not about the current challenge but about the procedure as such.

Jansku: What you're getting are monochromes. Maybe it's easier to understand if you try to do a trirone or a quadtone.


Gloda, can't you just create tritones or quadtones with a duplicate layer and change the opacity?
02/16/2006 12:19:55 PM · #61
Try this:

Open picture
Go to Layer – duplicate
Go to Adjust – Colorize – and select colors (duotones, by the way)

Then go to Layers – Arrange - Select “Bring to the top”

Go to adjust – colorize

Go to Layers – Properties - Adjust the opacity

Bingo – you can create as many layers and tones as you want – legal for basic, as long as the adjustments are applied evenly to the entire image.

There are several ways to do this. you can split RGB and re-assemble RBB or RRG or any combo and then select - Adjust - colorize. All of these have worked fine for me in PSP.
02/16/2006 12:30:57 PM · #62
Gringo, by changing the opacity of multiple adjustment layers you'll always only end up with a blend of those colours. I.e. red and blue with blue at 50% will have tha same effect as a single violet layer.
02/16/2006 12:36:44 PM · #63
Originally posted by gloda:

Gringo, by changing the opacity of multiple adjustment layers you'll always only end up with a blend of those colours. I.e. red and blue with blue at 50% will have tha same effect as a single violet layer.


I guess I don't understand. I have not found a color combo I haven't been able to hit.
02/16/2006 12:40:27 PM · #64
Gloda, can you post an example of what you are trying to do?
02/16/2006 12:47:26 PM · #65
Originally posted by Gringo:

Try this:

Open picture
Go to Layer – duplicate

Bingo – you can create as many layers and tones as you want – legal for basic, as long as the adjustments are applied evenly to the entire image.


You cannot have any pixel layers (aside from the original background) in basic. By duplicating the background you break the basic editing rules.

02/16/2006 01:01:42 PM · #66
Originally posted by tsheets:

Originally posted by Gringo:

Try this:

Open picture
Go to Layer – duplicate

Bingo – you can create as many layers and tones as you want – legal for basic, as long as the adjustments are applied evenly to the entire image.


You cannot have any pixel layers (aside from the original background) in basic. By duplicating the background you break the basic editing rules.


From the rules:
Layers: Only Adjustment Layers (or the non-Photoshop equivalent) may be used. An Adjustment Layer is one that does not contain any pixel data, but rather is a special, non-image layer that lets you experiment with color and tonal adjustments to an image without permanently modifying the pixels. Adjustment Layers must be applied in Normal mode. All other types of layers (including those that contain pixel data or masks) and all other blending methods (modes) are prohibited. Changing the opacity of an Adjustment Layer is permitted.

If you create a duplicate layer, it is exactly the same as the original and changing the opacity is permitted. So you can keep the original untouched and add several duplicate layers in any color you want and apply them evenly at percentages by adjusting the opacity. All legal under the basic rule set.


Message edited by author 2006-02-16 13:04:38.
02/16/2006 01:26:54 PM · #67
I've written a tutorial for doing duotones with PSP adn sent it to the admins. The methods are not legal for basic editing, but they should at least clarify some questions. Now we'll just have to wait for the tutorial to be hosted.
02/16/2006 01:37:48 PM · #68
It's not much of a problem for me. I have PSP X and PS:CS. I also wonder if I could just use PS and do a Duotone and save it and then edit it in PSP. I personally don't see that their would be a problem but what do I know.
02/16/2006 01:43:27 PM · #69
Originally posted by Gringo:

If you create a duplicate layer, it is exactly the same as the original and changing the opacity is permitted. So you can keep the original untouched and add several duplicate layers in any color you want and apply them evenly at percentages by adjusting the opacity. All legal under the basic rule set.


This is SO not true. Basic rules expressly prohibit additional layers that contain pixels. A duplicate of the BG layer contains pixels. It may not be used in basic editing.

R.
02/16/2006 02:06:12 PM · #70
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Gringo:

If you create a duplicate layer, it is exactly the same as the original and changing the opacity is permitted. So you can keep the original untouched and add several duplicate layers in any color you want and apply them evenly at percentages by adjusting the opacity. All legal under the basic rule set.


This is SO not true. Basic rules expressly prohibit additional layers that contain pixels. A duplicate of the BG layer contains pixels. It may not be used in basic editing.

R.


Hmmmmm ..... Even if it's an exact duplicate? It hasn't been altered or modified? It's the same as the original file in every way?
I would think anything you do to it that falls under the basic rules would be no different. I guess I don't understand the rules yet either.

:-/
02/16/2006 02:32:36 PM · #71
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Gringo:

If you create a duplicate layer, it is exactly the same as the original and changing the opacity is permitted. So you can keep the original untouched and add several duplicate layers in any color you want and apply them evenly at percentages by adjusting the opacity. All legal under the basic rule set.


This is SO not true. Basic rules expressly prohibit additional layers that contain pixels. A duplicate of the BG layer contains pixels. It may not be used in basic editing.

R.


Thanks Bear, I just sent a request to the SC members asking for clarification on this. I am just getting into the use of layers so how they work and what information they contain is still a learning thing for me. I just don't see how a duplicate of the original layer can be any different than the unaltered original. If you are right here, I may have busticated a rule on my last entry.
:-/

Gloda, as you can see.... tutorials are a great help. I'll be looking forward to reading yours.
02/16/2006 02:46:34 PM · #72
the only use of "layers" allowed in basic are adjustment layers (which contain no pixel data), not duplicate layers, because, as bear mentioned, they contain pixel data, and so are a big no-no in basic.
02/16/2006 03:00:36 PM · #73
Originally posted by frisca:

the only use of "layers" allowed in basic are adjustment layers (which contain no pixel data), not duplicate layers, because, as bear mentioned, they contain pixel data, and so are a big no-no in basic.


:(
02/16/2006 03:05:50 PM · #74
Well,

Let me be the first to announce that the #14 th place entry in the Broken ll challenge has been disqualified for using a duplicate layer.

Ugh! I'm going back to my old way... I hate layers now.

I'm looking forward to your tutorial Gloda. I'm not doing any more layers until I understand them better.
02/16/2006 03:58:00 PM · #75
Originally posted by kirbic:

I skulked about a bit, and there are some plugins to add duotone functionality to PSP. They range in price from $15 to $54 from what I saw, so there are low-cost options other than a complete swap of editing software.
BTW, AFAIK, GIMP does not have built-in duotone, but I could be wrong.


I have read this thread through and something hit me when I read this. I use GIMP. In GIMP you have the ability to script pretty much everything. There are duotone-scripts and I would like to know if they are legal to use under basic editing. These scripts are GIMPs answer to plug-ins. If a duotone script is legal under basic editing even though the script uses features not legal under basic editing in the background (like what PS does in the background with the duotone option or what a duotone plug-in does in PSP) it would open up a whole new range of options for GIMP users who now can make a script for their favourite non-basic editing effect. IMO this would further undermine the basic editing ruleset. In the short run I think you should add an extra rule to the duotone challenge to open up the possibility for non-PS-users to create nice duotone pictures. In the long run a total review of the rulesets is necessary (which i know is underway).
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