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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Is this allowed - rotating canvas
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07/14/2003 01:37:07 AM · #1
Hi, I have a question about the weekly assignments. Is rotating the canvas in photoshop legal? I have an entry for this week's "round" assignment, but after taking the photo I noticed it wasn't as straight as I would like so I rotated the canvas by 1 degree and cropped the picture slightly.

Is this permitted? I thought I would ask before the voting starts, to avoid any problems.

Thanks, Dan
07/14/2003 01:37:40 AM · #2
Originally posted by daninbc:

Hi, I have a question about the weekly assignments. Is rotating the canvas in photoshop legal? I have an entry for this week's "round" assignment, but after taking the photo I noticed it wasn't as straight as I would like so I rotated the canvas by 1 degree and cropped the picture slightly.

Is this permitted? I thought I would ask before the voting starts, to avoid any problems.

Thanks, Dan


yup. that's legal.
07/14/2003 02:35:41 AM · #3
What about perspective correction, and pincushion / barrel distortion, are software corrections for these within the challenge rules?

Message edited by author 2003-07-14 02:36:11.
07/14/2003 03:31:56 AM · #4
Originally posted by brettd:

What about perspective correction, and pincushion / barrel distortion, are software corrections for these within the challenge rules?


If I remember correctly, this question was raised in the forums two or three weeks ago. As I recall, the answer was No.
07/14/2003 05:15:39 AM · #5
Martus is right. As much as I think perspective adjustments should be permitted, the Site Council took a vote, and the majority decided that it is not legal.
07/14/2003 08:54:23 AM · #6
Can anybody tell me what perspective adjustments means ?
07/14/2003 09:07:41 AM · #7
Originally posted by heida:

Can anybody tell me what perspective adjustments means ?


The short answer is that it is the straightening of lines which came out "bent" due to the perspective the photo was taken from.

This would be very useful for taking photos of buildings for example. Here you find this kind of perspective distortion often. I'm sure you've seen shots of buildings where the sides seem to converge - that's what we're talking about.

I'm with Konador on this - if straightening is legal, this should be too.
07/14/2003 10:00:48 AM · #8
could you tell me about some software that does that?

or a plugin for PS?


v.
07/14/2003 10:02:39 AM · #9
Paint Shop Pro v.8 has perspective and lens correction tools, but I don't know how well they work, as I just tried them a bit.

~Ursula

07/14/2003 10:11:56 AM · #10
Originally posted by vjoz:

could you tell me about some software that does that?

or a plugin for PS?


v.


I use a package called Ulead PhotoImpact, which works OK. It can't fix major problems, but it works really well with those very slight angles which can ruin an otherwise good photo.
07/14/2003 10:17:12 AM · #11
Is it legal to use gradient map?
07/14/2003 10:19:18 AM · #12
Originally posted by heida:

Is it legal to use gradient map?


If you mean the gradient map used to straighten photographs as a whole, then yes.
07/14/2003 10:20:41 AM · #13
While one the subject of rotating canvas would this kind of an image be allowed? //www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=27618

It was taken on an angle, rotated then I used a border to fill in to make it rectangular rather than diamond shaped...but seriously would be ok in a challenge I have wondered that since I did that photo.
07/14/2003 10:24:52 AM · #14
Originally posted by Martus:

Originally posted by heida:

Can anybody tell me what perspective adjustments means ?


The short answer is that it is the straightening of lines which came out "bent" due to the perspective the photo was taken from.

This would be very useful for taking photos of buildings for example. Here you find this kind of perspective distortion often. I'm sure you've seen shots of buildings where the sides seem to converge - that's what we're talking about.

I'm with Konador on this - if straightening is legal, this should be too.


As a little aside, I don't like the idea of perspective adjustments. I'm not talking about the rounding of staight lines near the edges of a wide lens, I mean the converging building lines you're talking about.

I don't mean for DPC either, I'm talking about aesthetically.

On a two-dimensional medium, our eyes only have one way of perceiving three dimensions, and that is the convergence you're talking about. if you start straightening lines, you're messing with our brains. The converging lines tell us about depth; they tell us that something is moving away from us. A painter would be criticized for NOT including them.

Pincushion makes sense, because that is an anomaly of the lens; actual distortion. But in general I disagree with trying to make the lines on a building line up with the edge of the picture, since it doesn't happen like that in real life.

just my opinion. For the record, I couldn't care less about whether these are legal or not for DPC. It will ruin many great pictures in my mind, therefore the votes will be higher for my more natural looking pics :)

Pedro
07/14/2003 10:26:42 AM · #15
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

While one the subject of rotating canvas would this kind of an image be allowed? //www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=27618

It was taken on an angle, rotated then I used a border to fill in to make it rectangular rather than diamond shaped...but seriously would be ok in a challenge I have wondered that since I did that photo.


you'd be criticized for your border :)

can't see why that's not legal; they didn't say they had to be symmetrical. Look at DSidwell last ribbom (country life)...THAT ain't symmetrical.
07/14/2003 10:26:59 AM · #16
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

While one the subject of rotating canvas would this kind of an image be allowed? //www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=27618

It was taken on an angle, rotated then I used a border to fill in to make it rectangular rather than diamond shaped...but seriously would be ok in a challenge I have wondered that since I did that photo.


Judging by some of the borders that have been allowed, this might be okay. I would request a DQ though. This looks like it was selected, cut, placed against a black background, and had the brownish boder added. As far as I know using the filling tool is illegal, and combining two images is definitely illegal.

I'm not saying that's what you did, just what it looks like. So... If I had been on the council, my vote would be DQ.

Message edited by author 2003-07-14 10:29:08.
07/14/2003 12:57:30 PM · #17
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

While one the subject of rotating canvas would this kind of an image be allowed? //www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=27618

It was taken on an angle, rotated then I used a border to fill in to make it rectangular rather than diamond shaped...but seriously would be ok in a challenge I have wondered that since I did that photo.


If this came up with a DQ request, I would vote to request proof as to HOW it was done. I think that the issue would be weather or not this creates 2 layers. 1 Being the photo, and 2 being the canvas. I'm not sure about that though.
07/14/2003 01:06:02 PM · #18
Originally posted by hbunch7187:

Originally posted by OneSweetSin:

While one the subject of rotating canvas would this kind of an image be allowed? //www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=27618

It was taken on an angle, rotated then I used a border to fill in to make it rectangular rather than diamond shaped...but seriously would be ok in a challenge I have wondered that since I did that photo.


If this came up with a DQ request, I would vote to request proof as to HOW it was done. I think that the issue would be weather or not this creates 2 layers. 1 Being the photo, and 2 being the canvas. I'm not sure about that though.


very good point Heather as it was that one was done by rotating the orginal and then pasting it onto a larger black background and then resizing. Although at the same time I did do one similar to it with a large border, and I turned it to get the same effect. I then cropped it down to the size I wanted so, in other words the second method would have been legal but the first wouldn't?
07/14/2003 01:13:14 PM · #19
I've vote DQ on the first method, second method might have to be discussed with SC, but it SEEMS ok. This is just my opinion, as other SC could feel differently.
07/14/2003 01:24:50 PM · #20
Just to further confuse the issue...

The GIMP (my photo editor of choice) has an arbitrary rotation. When you rotate the picture at some angle which is not a multiple of 90 degrees it leaves the canvas rectangular. In the process it crops out bits of the photo and leaves parts of canvas showing. Is filling in the parts of the canvas left showing with a color considered spot editing?

I usually crop these areas out but have considered a border taking advantage of these leftover spaces...

Just curious..
-Matt
07/14/2003 01:25:12 PM · #21
Back when we were discussing whether to allow borders, I did some experiments which I posted in this gallery to domonstrate how to produce a "non-square" border by DPC-legal means.

' . substr('//www.pbase.com/image/8781922/small.jpg', strrpos('//www.pbase.com/image/8781922/small.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Rotation is specifically allowed in the rules; allowing the background to fill-in the the background color is Photoshop's normal procedure and does not create any illegal layers.

I agree that such photos will provoke DQ requests, but the explanation given in this instance ought to be acceptable.

I don't think the distortion or perspective tools are/should be allowed within our current rules structure. They can already be used on the unrestricted editing challenges.
07/14/2003 01:27:49 PM · #22
Matt--

The Gimp is doing just what PS does in the same situation.
07/15/2003 07:26:40 PM · #23
I queried this point a few months back in this thread. According to Drew's answer there, I can see no problems with the photo referred to above.
07/15/2003 09:56:33 PM · #24
Originally posted by brettd:

What about perspective correction, and pincushion / barrel distortion, are software corrections for these within the challenge rules?


i would like to point that tehre are digital cameras that can correct for perspective distortions, but i highly doubt anyone here (well, maybe setz) has one.

they make 20.0 mp digital backs for large format cameras, you know.

so... if it can be done in the camera, what wrong with doing it in ps?

sorry, just playing devil's advocate here.
07/15/2003 10:04:52 PM · #25
The Fuji 602 does perspective correction, but unfortunately it doesn't anti-alias.
However, on 6mp mode before resizing, perhaps this wouldn't be noticable?
There are plenty of users here with that camera!
EDIT: Hang about... or was that the Nikon Coolpix 4500? One of those two, anyway! :-)

Message edited by author 2003-07-15 22:06:35.
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