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01/14/2006 12:30:41 AM · #26
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by goodman:

just dumb ones, like this:-

Composition is ok. The subject matter could have been better. ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/427/thumb/273908.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/427/thumb/273908.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


I received the exact same comment, and saw it in several other entries I happened to browse. We have a cut 'n paste commenter working on his stats here. One comment fits all.

R.


I'm just really keen to find out what this commenter meant by "subject matter could have been better."

On a related note, should ONE feel stupid when one leaves a comment as dumb as this and the shot one commented on turned out to be a favorite for many people?
01/14/2006 12:38:22 AM · #27
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I agree that people are afraid of appearing foolish, but a critique is nothing more than an opinion.

Absolutely, but I think that many people simply find it difficult to articulate their opinion, whether it be from fear of being ridiculed, simple lazyness, problems with the language, or whatever.

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

We can't worry ourselves with how our critiques will be perceived.

Perhaps, but I'm afraid that most of us do.


01/14/2006 12:40:58 AM · #28
Originally posted by goodman:

just dumb ones, like this:-

Composition is ok. The subject matter could have been better. ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/427/thumb/273908.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/427/thumb/273908.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


Be careful, I was just blasted last week for commenting negatively about a comment on my mesa arch shot. ;o)
01/14/2006 12:41:20 AM · #29
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Sometimes, I think the one word critiques are enough. I can look at a photo and KNOW that I like it. A detailed description of how I feel about it may be beyond the words I have at my disposal. I can either keep my silence, in which case, the photographer will never know I appreciate his work. I can leave a comment like "Wow!" or "Great" of something. That photograph may prompt a great deal of thought that eventually leads to the possibility of a more detailed analysis, but often, the mystery is unsolvable.


Time is the real issue. Those who feel compelled to comment would likely give much more in depth review of 10 photographs rather than 500.


On some occasions it is time, on others, I am just without words.
01/14/2006 01:01:13 AM · #30
By the definitions used here, I am probably unqualified to make comments... I am new to photography and newer to this site. But I take my limited time to try to comment as I vote.

I do to first so others may know what their photo meant to me. And what I see with my unique set of eyes.

I do it second for myself... to make me stop and process what it is I like and don’t like in a photo.
If my comment is off base... fine... it made you think about why it was off base and reinforced something. If I’m lucky, you’ll send me a PM and let me know you felt that way. It is sad when my 2 to 5 minutes of studying your picture to comment doesn’t warrent your 2 to 5 seconds to click the “thanks” box. But one thing this site teaches you is... You Can’t Please Everybody. And that goes for comments, too.

So send me the one word praise... I can use it after a bolus of constructive critisim.

Send me conflicting feedbacks... It reminds me that it is all personal taste, anyway.

Send me the shot that wasn’t there... It might just be there, next time.

And send me feedback on my feedback... It is why we’re all here.
01/14/2006 01:43:03 AM · #31
It is a fact that when you expose an image in a competition it will be subjected to criticism.

If you are lucky to receive a good handful of comments then you want to separate the good from the bad. If you have more good than bad then all is well, especially if your score shows it. If it goes the other way, then the image has failed in this environment

But you do yourself an injustice to compete and then complaint. Consider: how much time do you think a voter can spend on your image? They are viewed rapidly and this gives images that jump out a better chance. There may be many subtle gems and many a sharp eye will find them, but often they go unnoticed by the majority. This condition grows worse with the amount of entries. There are not that many voters here that go back for re evalution.

99 and 9/10th of comments received I always mark as helpful. I take the comments with the score and whenever I am at 5.6 I know I have failed in my effort for the competition. And yes, I am a very good judge of what an image will yield here at DPC and often I like my image but realize that it will not rise above 5.6. With these images I can almost anticipate some of the comments.

We enter to receive criticism otherwise we should keep our images to ourselves.
01/14/2006 02:41:55 AM · #32
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by goodman:

just dumb ones, like this:-

Composition is ok. The subject matter could have been better. ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/427/thumb/273908.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/427/thumb/273908.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


I received the exact same comment, and saw it in several other entries I happened to browse. We have a cut 'n paste commenter working on his stats here. One comment fits all.

R.


I found the commenter, have read many of his comments, and don't think he's being a "cut 'n paste" commenter. While he does tend to comment using a fixed form (e.g. "composition is X, subject matter is Y, image quality is Z."), the comments nevertheless seem to be honest (probably mirroring how he votes), and not "cut 'n paste".

Nordlys
01/14/2006 03:21:24 AM · #33
I'm not sure I am really qualified to post here as I have not entered a challenge for a while nor have I even voted! I guess I have turned out to be more of a lurker than anything else!

What I do enjoy though is doing critiques via the critique club. For me personally it allows me to see photos that I may not normally have ever taken a second glance at and I have the chance to make an in depth comment.

Whether someone wishes to use my advice or ignore it is up to them but I find that personally I get a lot out of making these critiques.

At the end of the day I think it is up to the individual. It is the individual with their own personal opinion making the comments. It is the individual with their own unique set of eyes taking the photo and it is up to the individual with their own mind to decide whether or not to listen to the comments that are made.
01/14/2006 04:05:03 AM · #34
IMO- There is NO such thing as a bad comment :-)
(there almost was twice)

As far as if a commenter leaves something about levels or whatever the case, and you wish you knew more? You could try pm'ing them (after the challenge) and ask for furter, detailed info. I think most folks, if they take the time to comment on pics, would gladly give the help. They may even feel flattered :-) The worst that could happen is you might not get any response. Well, ok, maybe the worst that could happen is they send a nasty pm back telling you not to bother them, but I think the odds of that would be pretty darn slim. I can think of at least a couple times that people have pm'd me like that about comments I have left, and I was happy to give a little more detail, and some advice on other tutorials and things to help them even more than I could. And I can think of at least a couple times I have pm'd people asking and they happily (at least I hope happily) helped me out :-)
01/14/2006 04:09:07 AM · #35
Yesterday I recieved the following comment ...

"Errr ???"

It is one of the best comments that I've ever received. The viewer didn't get my image. I failed to achieve the very basic need of an image and that is to communicate, to explain itself, to be understood, even to tell a story.

The fault is mine, not the commenter who, in that one puntuated word, gave me a great understanding about my image.

Brett

Message edited by author 2006-01-14 04:09:56.
01/14/2006 04:27:46 AM · #36
Why should they bother me? They are after all only opinions. By placing my photo's in this forum it is implicitly asking for comments...
01/14/2006 04:40:40 AM · #37
i am surprised that by just one comment you thought its your failure, what about lot of people who got it.

Originally posted by KiwiPix:

Yesterday I recieved the following comment ...

"Errr ???"

It is one of the best comments that I've ever received. The viewer didn't get my image. I failed to achieve the very basic need of an image and that is to communicate, to explain itself, to be understood, even to tell a story.

The fault is mine, not the commenter who, in that one puntuated word, gave me a great understanding about my image.

Brett
01/14/2006 04:46:55 AM · #38
Originally posted by rgo:

On a related note, should ONE feel stupid when one leaves a comment as dumb as this and the shot one commented on turned out to be a favorite for many people?


Do you feel stupid when you give YOUR opinion?
01/14/2006 04:49:32 AM · #39
Originally posted by zxaar:

i am surprised that by just one comment you thought its your failure, what about lot of people who got it.

Hehe, thanks for the vote of confidence zxaar but with a current score of 4.0346 I got the message ... LOL

I was really surprised and didn't really understand the score. That comment showed me why. The picture made sense to me but clearly not anyone else so it's been rightly trrashed. From an average vote for all challenges of 5.5624 to that is a fine wakeup call :)

Brett
01/14/2006 04:51:07 AM · #40
as long as comments are constructive I don't mind them. I was once told to accept criticism as a compliment because:

"There is no fun to be gained by kicking a dead dog" I will let you work out the meaning in that.
01/14/2006 04:51:44 AM · #41
I have recently changed my view on commenting. Dont get me wrong I always want critique good or bad, how am i supposed to really learn without it. Someone may point out something i didnt realise. I do however have a problem with critiques that are narrow minded and ill informed. Take my "holday catalogue" challenge entry for example there is nothing more holiday here than what my entry is portraying but everyone who voted on it didnt think beyond their little area and realise that it isnt winter for everyone. I normally dont get too wound up with all of this but I did with this one. I have said it before and i will say it again, take time to realise what you are saying before jumping down someones throat. I actually thought the photo i entered wasnt too bad and i even thought I may come somewhere decent in the challenge.. boy was i wrong.
01/14/2006 05:17:36 AM · #42
Originally posted by lentil:

I do however have a problem with critiques that are narrow minded and ill informed. Take my "holday catalogue" challenge entry for example there is nothing more holiday here than what my entry is portraying but everyone who voted on it didnt think beyond their little area and realise that it isnt winter for everyone.


With my short stint here at DPC, i have realised that lot of people (knowingly or not knowingly) can not come out of their preconcieved idea of challenge entry and vote according to it. We can not change it, its the way it is.
01/14/2006 05:20:14 AM · #43
Originally posted by zxaar:

Originally posted by lentil:

I do however have a problem with critiques that are narrow minded and ill informed. Take my "holday catalogue" challenge entry for example there is nothing more holiday here than what my entry is portraying but everyone who voted on it didnt think beyond their little area and realise that it isnt winter for everyone.


With my short stint here at DPC, i have realised that lot of people (knowingly or not knowingly) can not come out of their preconcieved idea of challenge entry and vote according to it. We can not change it, its the way it is.


which is exactly why i am not entering challenges anymore.. why bother.
01/14/2006 05:28:41 AM · #44
Well i came to this conlcusion of not entering , but not solely because of this, i do love my job a lot and it needs lot of time and dedication.
I have made it a point that if i enter, i will be at least enjoying it. At least this much i can do.

Originally posted by lentil:

Originally posted by zxaar:

Originally posted by lentil:

I do however have a problem with critiques that are narrow minded and ill informed. Take my "holday catalogue" challenge entry for example there is nothing more holiday here than what my entry is portraying but everyone who voted on it didnt think beyond their little area and realise that it isnt winter for everyone.


With my short stint here at DPC, i have realised that lot of people (knowingly or not knowingly) can not come out of their preconcieved idea of challenge entry and vote according to it. We can not change it, its the way it is.


which is exactly why i am not entering challenges anymore.. why bother.
01/14/2006 05:32:58 AM · #45
I think as has been mentioned, there are several issues with critiqing. One it that there are usually so many entries in a competition- if you do chose to leave a comment, it is usually because it hit you in a good or bad way. Wow or Ugh. If it could use a little help, it probably gets a medium score and no comment. Sometimes those are the ones that need the comments most- how to take the shot to the next level. I sometimes look at how many comments my pictures get to measure if it is successful or not. Lots of comments means that more people reacted to it. A few comments, it was boring. My current challenge entry is not getting many comments. But if it is not a technical issue, it is can be hard to pinpoint why a picture "just isn't working". That is hard to comment on. I thank those who have left comments on my photos. I do not mind negative comments- those I can learn from. "Nice pic" is apreciated, but how do I get from there to "Awesome- great job!"?
01/14/2006 05:48:57 AM · #46
You have made a pretty good point.
However like me , most of these commentaters are here for learning, and the basic rule of learning is to keep your mind open, to others thoughts and ideas. The way you judge an image reflects your ability to learn. I accept ideas from everybody, listen to them, and try to think their way, befor extracting anything helpful for me. And this is one of the reasons i have been above average in whatever i have done in life and i have done lot of things, including arts, literature to complicated maths. (yes i am no good at photography but i have not spent more than 3 months with this thing).
01/14/2006 08:21:22 AM · #47
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Not sure this fits, but sometimes I get comments that make me laugh because the commenter will say something like "it would look better with the horse on the other side of the hay bale...". I think to myself, yep - you're right...next time I'll ask that horse to move. ;^)


I do the same thing. I got a few comments about a shot from a softball game about the people behind being distracting. I laughed and thought, yeah, next time I will ask them all to move so that I can get this shot and then they can all sit down. Just makes no sense. I think sometimes people forget that not all shots are posed and staged. They will comment as if it is something you went out and set up. I think people forget that and get so caught up in trying to say something that they say things that make no sense when you look at the picture.

I have learned from some comments, but some are either just plain mean or not connected to the image. Those I just ignore and not mark as helpful, because they aren't helpful to me.
01/14/2006 08:43:07 AM · #48
I am glad to see that everyone has a point of view on this that somewhat differs from the other. (And THANKS Spaz!)

This thread is not about if and how and when we should receive comments and by whom and why. This site has the option, and many utilize it.

What I am saying is those that take comments made on their photos like a sword to the heart, to the point of having it even affect continuing on with this site or any other, there is really no need to feel that way. Simply brush it off. When someone says to you "lose the border", say to yourself "lose the comment", if that particular comment affects you. That is what I did.

Someone said to me, "lose the border". LOL...I LIKE my border, thank you very much. I think it adds to the subject, and due to the cropping that had to be done, it was basically necessary to add in order to contain the image. But that is just another example of them not knowing the story behind that, so they just comment on an issue that can't be explained to them had it been in a classroom. AND no comment on what is within the border was made. That is the beauty part of the CC, in a sense. We get to read all the stories and the PP before we comment, and then we comment on all levels and all issues. It's not one liners.

Comments during voting are very subjective, as no one gets to understand anything but a photo and a title. So take it all with a HUGE grain of salt. Just continue to enter what YOU love, and however the chips fall in the end, is how they fall. Just know that you entered your best and move on to the next and enter your best.

The moral to the story is basically to just keep shooting if you love photography. That comments are a dime a dozen. You may love to make pot holders using all different colored yarn. Some may think them tacky looking, but some will want to buy all you have. Just like anything else, it is subjective. You don't place your pot holders in competitions, usually, so you just sell them at some craft booth and never really hear from the naysayers. They will be the ones that walk away from your booth, and not sit there and fill out some form about critique on your pot holders. LOL... In photos, you enter them, and therefore open yourself up for the critique. The only difference is you will hear from the naysayers because the forms are there for the filling, but don't let it get you down or move your stance on what you love to do.

In the past 5 months or so I have met two to three people who nearly gave up their love for recreational photography simply due to comments and low scores. I say PFTTTTT on the comments and low scores you disliked. Don't let that sway you, and just keep moving on! Doing what you love is far more important then thinking you are somehow wrong in your love for something over a silly comment made by some stranger.

Rose

Message edited by author 2006-01-14 08:46:25.
01/14/2006 09:19:06 AM · #49
Originally posted by twm122:


I do the same thing. I got a few comments about a shot from a softball game about the people behind being distracting. I laughed and thought, yeah, next time I will ask them all to move so that I can get this shot and then they can all sit down. Just makes no sense. I think sometimes people forget that not all shots are posed and staged. They will comment as if it is something you went out and set up. I think people forget that and get so caught up in trying to say something that they say things that make no sense when you look at the picture.

I have learned from some comments, but some are either just plain mean or not connected to the image. Those I just ignore and not mark as helpful, because they aren't helpful to me.


I think a comment like that says something too. In this case it's understood that you couldn't do anything about the background but in reviewing the comment, maybe there is truth to it (I don't know), and afterall, this is a competition. A pro will take hundreds of shots only to cull them down to a couple. Maybe (to use your example), they will say to themselves - "boy, this was a great shot, too bad about the distracting background" and throw that image into the discard pile because of it.

So maybe as a way of learning from a comment such as this we could ask ourselves, if in the future we are presented with a similar situation, is there a different angle we could have shot from? Could we have isolated the subject better with depth of field?

Personally, I find such comments very useful for stimulating my own critique of my work. Many times my point of view is clouded by the personal nature of MY image, and all the background feelings and emotions that go with it, and I don't see it from the POV of a casual viewer. Maybe I will agree, and maybe I won't, but I will consider it just the same.

Bill

Message edited by author 2006-01-14 09:20:41.
01/14/2006 09:22:24 AM · #50
Originally posted by Rose8699:

Comments during voting are very subjective,

You've just summed it up there. Everyone will have their own opinion on your shots. Not everyone will have the same interpretation. That's what makes it interesting.

And that's the whole point of photography as art. Create a photo which communicates something to the viewer, and hopefully causes some emotional reaction. Whether they love it or hate it, it's all good.
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