DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

Threads will be shown in descending order for the remainder of this session. To permanently display posts in this order, adjust your preferences.
DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Thoughts on lack of commenting, IMO
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 51, descending (reverse)
AuthorThread
02/08/2006 11:46:48 PM · #1
Originally posted by bbower1956:

Originally posted by ubique:

Originally posted by bbower1956:

I wish people would comment more. It seems that winning photos have so many more comments than ones that don't. It seems people would rather say why they like a photo rather than why they do not.


Nonsense. In your Best of 2005 entry, you found this comment helpful:
she is so cute...
and also this one:
Adorable child!

But you did NOT find this helpful:
Very nice capture--gorgeous expression and great color. It's very natural and simple. I would like to see a bit more light in her eyes. Perhaps a reflector held near her face would have provided more of a catch light in her eyes? Or perhaps a diffused fill flash made by taping a bit of wax paper over the flash (I don't know how sophisticated your equipment is---this is the sort of thing I have to do).

nor this:
Some good use of backlighting, but the red in her skin tones could have been easily fixed in post, and leave her looking feverish. The focus seems just a little too forward of her face as well.

You can fool yourself if you wish, but stop trying to fool us.


I am not trying to fool anyone. I felt and still feel that these comments were due to monitor calibration issues. And as for the red - she is laughing and it was summer - hard to believe her skin would be red. I read every comment and never take it personal so there is no need to get personal with me.


I'm not being personal ... I just wondered why you found several essentially useless comments "helpful" and several obviously useful comments NOT helpful. And one of the comments you dismissed as not helpful was about poor focus - how is that "due to monitor calibration issues"?
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/430/thumb/280942.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/430/thumb/280942.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
Don't get me wrong, though, you're entitled to dismiss ALL comments if you wish. Just don't whine about lack of constructive comments in the forums.

Message edited by author 2006-02-09 00:28:31.
02/08/2006 11:30:21 PM · #2
Originally posted by ubique:

Originally posted by bbower1956:

I wish people would comment more. It seems that winning photos have so many more comments than ones that don't. It seems people would rather say why they like a photo rather than why they do not.


Nonsense. In your Best of 2005 entry, you found this comment helpful:
she is so cute...
and also this one:
Adorable child!

But you did NOT find this helpful:
Very nice capture--gorgeous expression and great color. It's very natural and simple. I would like to see a bit more light in her eyes. Perhaps a reflector held near her face would have provided more of a catch light in her eyes? Or perhaps a diffused fill flash made by taping a bit of wax paper over the flash (I don't know how sophisticated your equipment is---this is the sort of thing I have to do).

nor this:
Some good use of backlighting, but the red in her skin tones could have been easily fixed in post, and leave her looking feverish. The focus seems just a little too forward of her face as well.

You can fool yourself if you wish, but stop trying to fool us.


I am not trying to fool anyone. I felt and still feel that these comments were due to monitor calibration issues. And as for the red - she is laughing and it was summer - hard to believe her skin would be red. I read every comment and never take it personal so there is no need to get personal with me.
02/08/2006 07:59:51 PM · #3
Hey missinseattle, I just left you a comment.
02/08/2006 12:48:24 PM · #4
Originally posted by jonr:

I once commented on every photo in a 300+ photo contest. It was exhausting, I don't think I'll ever do that again. I usually comment on the 8-10 and 1-3 photos, the rest is, well, average, not much to say about them

I'd LOVE to have a 7 average. ;^)
02/08/2006 12:30:37 PM · #5
Originally posted by jonr:

I once commented on every photo in a 300+ photo contest. It was exhausting, I don't think I'll ever do that again. I usually comment on the 8-10 and 1-3 photos, the rest is, well, average, not much to say about them

For the first time I commented on every image in the recently completed "Recipe II" challenge.

I got no feedback either positive or negative from anyone. That is unusual so I reviewed what I'd written and decided the quality of comments I left was not up to my normal standard and really did not warrant any response either way and was not very useful. For that reason I probably will not do it again.

The lesson for me regarding my commenting is this:
Quality is better than quantity!
02/08/2006 06:59:09 AM · #6
I once commented on every photo in a 300+ photo contest. It was exhausting, I don't think I'll ever do that again. I usually comment on the 8-10 and 1-3 photos, the rest is, well, average, not much to say about them
02/08/2006 06:50:26 AM · #7
I basically feel like I get comments if the shot is rotten. If it's just average I don't get anything. I was hoping for some input on my entry for "Blue II" but only received 3 comments which were nice ones. I find any comment helpful like the constructive criticism because it gives me an idea of what to work one.
I don't have time to comment a lot because I have daughter I am home with all day so I try to squeeze in comments here and there when I have the time. I say what I see but don't have time to go into debth on much.
02/08/2006 12:26:06 AM · #8
Originally posted by PaulE:

I agree with olddj that the commenting on lower scores should be more important, and certianly has greater scope to help photographers.

This is especially the case in such instances as described below when a photographer has really ploughed effort into a shot, and is eager to understand why some people don't appreciate the shot and how to improve. 40 votes below 4 without any comments must be very frustrating.

Unfortunately many shots that score below 4 do not show this degree of application. They look like they have been taken on a whim and submitted on a whim. The photographer has been unwilling to make an effort, so why should we make an effort in commenting?

I think I am going to revise my commenting policy. I am going to comment on those images to which I give a 4 (and those that move me).


I think the point is someone that is trying to produce a good photo and gets a lot of 3s or 4s not necessary an overall score in that range. If those votes were made because that's what the voter honestly felt then finding out what reason it was would be helpful. Some might say well those people are in the minority but are they really? They could have a view that is perhaps more in common with the rest of the world. After all the rest of the world isn't all made up of photographers or inspiring photographers. Also, since this is an online community many people probably dont' want to be harsh in their voting because people know each other, which is why I don't necessarily care about the score at least from a learning perspective.

As for the effort vs no effort I think you can tell easily which is which and just avoid the ones that look like they are not serious (i.e. your typical cell phone photos).

Also, if I were getting scores of 6 and 7 I would still like the comments but really the problem here is getting constructive comments and not just accolades although those are nice too ;)

Message edited by author 2006-02-08 00:34:15.
02/08/2006 12:17:18 AM · #9
Originally posted by stdavidson:


I know I'm gonna regret this... :)

I will freely admit I am wrong if you can convince me you had new learning that significantly improved your photographic skills based on the 79 comments you have received so far. I looked and agree there are some useful comments there, but not lots. They look like the ones I get.

In my first posting to this thread, before saying anything about comments, I made three suggestions to improve your photography that I believe are more fruitful for improving your photography. They were:

1-If you want to get better seek a trusted and knowlegeable mentor to learn from.

2-Read about photographic techniques and conciously practice them in challenges.

3-Look at the top finishers and ask yourself, "What makes them so good?" and emulate them.

It is hard for me to believe that the knowledge you have gained from your 79 comments is as useful as those three ways. But I can and have been wrong before. Convince me I am.


Oh I certainly don't disagree with your three bullet points. I just disagree about the score being more valuable than actual comments.

Message edited by author 2006-02-08 00:19:29.
02/07/2006 09:29:28 PM · #10
I agree with olddj that the commenting on lower scores should be more important, and certianly has greater scope to help photographers.

This is especially the case in such instances as described below when a photographer has really ploughed effort into a shot, and is eager to understand why some people don't appreciate the shot and how to improve. 40 votes below 4 without any comments must be very frustrating.

Unfortunately many shots that score below 4 do not show this degree of application. They look like they have been taken on a whim and submitted on a whim. The photographer has been unwilling to make an effort, so why should we make an effort in commenting?

I think I am going to revise my commenting policy. I am going to comment on those images to which I give a 4 (and those that move me).
02/07/2006 08:44:59 PM · #11
Originally posted by olddj:

Let me try one more time, on a slightly different angle.

Those of you that think comments are not important and especially any of you that think NOT commenting on photos you score low is fine, I have to ask you if you entered a photo that you KNOW fits the challenge, is technically sound, and you had taken 100 different photos of the subject, worked to get it the way you wanted it, and then got 40 votes UNDER 4 on it, are you trying to tell me you would not want to know why?


Yes.
02/07/2006 08:33:10 PM · #12
Let me try one more time, on a slightly different angle.

Those of you that think comments are not important and especially any of you that think NOT commenting on photos you score low is fine, I have to ask you if you entered a photo that you KNOW fits the challenge, is technically sound, and you had taken 100 different photos of the subject, worked to get it the way you wanted it, and then got 40 votes UNDER 4 on it, are you trying to tell me you would not want to know why? I do not believe it if any of you say it would not bother you, at least a little. This happens ALL the time now, want an example, check out my light on white entry, I DID take well over 100 photos trying to get everything just right, no blown highlights, nothing out of focus, white pure in background with nothing distracting - and I got JUST that - 40 votes below 4 and NOT ONE told me why!! VERY frustrating for me, and many others. I asked some of the well known and respected photographers on this site to look at it and see what they thought of it and see if they could see why so many low votes. Some responded by commenting on photo and some via messages, all said the crop may of been the reason, but basically made no sense because it obviously met the challenge and was technically sound. Of those that either did score it, or gave their opinion of what they would have scored it, it averaged a 7. So try to tell me again not commenting on low scores is okay, does no good to do it, etc etc etc, and I will tell you that you could NOT be more wrong. Even if the photographer does not want to hear it - happens to me quite often - at least they will know the reason for at least ONE low vote!

It is not just me, just look at the forums and see how frustrated some photographers become over the lack of commenting, and especially the lack of comments from low voters. I KNOW it is much more difficult to add a comment to a low voted photo, but - IN MY OPINION - it is much more important there, than your actual vote. Vote tells the photographer only ONE thing, you did not like the photo, and does not give him any clue as to why!! That is NOT good.

Jacque
02/07/2006 08:32:28 PM · #13
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by dahkota:

I disagree about the score being the most important comment.

Nobody begs for constructive comments on their images that score high, only those that score lower than expected.

Doesn't that imply score is the most important comment? :) ;)

The score tells you little other than DPC as a whole thought it was good bad or average in general. None of that helps you in terms of getting better since a score doesn't tell you what specifically was good/bad/average about it. Also, DPC voters as a whole are not a good representation of the real world especially since all the voters are either photographers or inspiring photographers.

I know I'm gonna regret this... :)

I will freely admit I am wrong if you can convince me you had new learning that significantly improved your photographic skills based on the 79 comments you have received so far. I looked and agree there are some useful comments there, but not lots. They look like the ones I get.

In my first posting to this thread, before saying anything about comments, I made three suggestions to improve your photography that I believe are more fruitful for improving your photography. They were:

1-If you want to get better seek a trusted and knowlegeable mentor to learn from.

2-Read about photographic techniques and conciously practice them in challenges.

3-Look at the top finishers and ask yourself, "What makes them so good?" and emulate them.

It is hard for me to believe that the knowledge you have gained from your 79 comments is as useful as those three ways. But I can and have been wrong before. Convince me I am.

02/07/2006 07:31:40 PM · #14
Originally posted by stdavidson:

Originally posted by dahkota:

I disagree about the score being the most important comment.

Nobody begs for constructive comments on their images that score high, only those that score lower than expected.

Doesn't that imply score is the most important comment? :) ;)


The score tells you little other than DPC as a whole thought it was good bad or average in general. None of that helps you in terms of getting better since a score doesn't tell you what specifically was good/bad/average about it. Also, DPC voters as a whole are not a good representation of the real world especially since all the voters are either photographers or inspiring photographers.

Message edited by author 2006-02-07 19:35:06.
02/07/2006 07:12:48 PM · #15
Originally posted by bbower1956:

I wish people would comment more. It seems that winning photos have so many more comments than ones that don't. It seems people would rather say why they like a photo rather than why they do not.


Nonsense. In your Best of 2005 entry, you found this comment helpful:
she is so cute...
and also this one:
Adorable child!

But you did NOT find this helpful:
Very nice capture--gorgeous expression and great color. It's very natural and simple. I would like to see a bit more light in her eyes. Perhaps a reflector held near her face would have provided more of a catch light in her eyes? Or perhaps a diffused fill flash made by taping a bit of wax paper over the flash (I don't know how sophisticated your equipment is---this is the sort of thing I have to do).

nor this:
Some good use of backlighting, but the red in her skin tones could have been easily fixed in post, and leave her looking feverish. The focus seems just a little too forward of her face as well.

You can fool yourself if you wish, but stop trying to fool us.
02/07/2006 06:15:52 PM · #16
thanks , you helped me a lot with your comments on "commenting or not". I joined this site to learn and I am , but not by any comments made. At first i thought my photos were so wretched that they did not deserve comment , now I get it. who am I thanking: stdavidson I think

Message edited by author 2006-02-07 18:36:42.
02/07/2006 05:53:28 PM · #17
Originally posted by ubique:

I vote on about 2 or 3 challenges a month, and I vote on every entry. I comment on all the images I score at 8 or higher, plus a few 7's. Of course this actually means that most of my comments are on images that score in the mid 5's or lower overall, because my choices do not coincide with popular acclaim (in best of 2005, only one of my top 5 finished in the top 150, and my first choice finished 679th).

I don't comment on images I rate low. My comments would be useless because I comment on my reaction to an image - how it makes me feel and why. I have little interest and even less expertise in matters of technique. So I'm not going to tell a photographer that the focus was wrong, or the lighting should have been different, or the background was (I hate this...) "distracting" - how do I know that the blurry, dark and distracting effect wasn't exactly what the photographer intended?

You learn most about how to take the photographs you want by studying and commenting on other people's work, not by listening to what people say about your own. The most useful comments by far are the ones you make yourself.


Paul, the other day I went through many of your comments (not to my photos :(, but it does not matter), and I must say I was in awe reading them. What a fine writing and depth. Sorry if I'm embarassing you, just wanted to say "thank you".
02/07/2006 05:20:08 PM · #18
I vote on about 2 or 3 challenges a month, and I vote on every entry. I comment on all the images I score at 8 or higher, plus a few 7's. Of course this actually means that most of my comments are on images that score in the mid 5's or lower overall, because my choices do not coincide with popular acclaim (in best of 2005, only one of my top 5 finished in the top 150, and my first choice finished 679th).

I don't comment on images I rate low. My comments would be useless because I comment on my reaction to an image - how it makes me feel and why. I have little interest and even less expertise in matters of technique. So I'm not going to tell a photographer that the focus was wrong, or the lighting should have been different, or the background was (I hate this...) "distracting" - how do I know that the blurry, dark and distracting effect wasn't exactly what the photographer intended?

You learn most about how to take the photographs you want by studying and commenting on other people's work, not by listening to what people say about your own. The most useful comments by far are the ones you make yourself.

Message edited by author 2006-02-07 17:21:44.
02/07/2006 04:33:49 PM · #19
I comment on every photo I vote on. Comments and feedback are what makes this site so special, it also cements the collegial nature of our community.

Because, as someone said, there are 1,500 images in the pool, I target my voting + comments to achieve 20% of each challenge. That's a managable 300 images. It doesn't seem necessary to vote on every entry. There seems to be enough of a voter pool for us to get 270+ votes on all submitted images. The margin of error with that many votes is just about nil so that gives me the opportunity to contribute quality rather than quantity. I hope that works the best for all concerned.

If there's more time, I will use it to do a Critique Club image to try and reduce the queue. Not having much luck with that at present since we have so many one-off challenges like free-study and time challenges but the intenion and workplan is there :)

Brett
02/07/2006 01:52:32 PM · #20
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

....ON my own machine, I have two different versions of images; the ones I display, and the ones I print. The gamma, the contrast, and the color balance are noticeably different, and the files destined for printing do not display as well as the ones adjusted for the web.

Good point. I do something similar. I'm evolving to having a separate full size(16 X 24) and sharpened master print file. I may include separate adjustment layers for the printer/paper specific adjustments that can be turned on and off manually. Then all I have to do is crop and send to printer.
02/07/2006 01:20:57 PM · #21
Originally posted by bbower1956:

My last entry, which won first place in a local competition, was panned by a few people who said it was too dark. A properly calibrated monitor would show that it is not too dark. This does not require calibration software but just looking at the bottom of your screen when voting and make sure you can see all the bars from white to black. I know it sounds nitpicky but if you spend a lot of time in post on your photo and some one does not have their monitor set as they should, it is like someone reseting brightness levels on your picture.


You're referring to your backlit child in "Best of 2005"?

"Too dark" is a very subjective judgment. It's not an absolute, it's a matter of personal taste. I have a properly calibrated monitor, and I find the face to be too dark by half a stop or so, and too red as well. Others' opinions may vary. That the image did well in a local competition is neither here nor there. For one thing, the way it looks when printed may be quite a bit different from how it looks on a monitor at 640 pixels. ON my own machine, I have two different versions of images; the ones I display, and the ones I print. The gamma, the contrast, and the color balance are noticeably different, and the files destined for printing do not display as well as the ones adjusted for the web.

R.
02/07/2006 12:27:32 PM · #22
I've been a member of DPC for some time, but my commenting and forum participation has declined dramatically. A large part of the reason for this is the overwhelming number of images being posted and people wanting/needing comments. I do enjoy working with other photographers and will write long critiques when I think it's appropriate. I struggle when the community gets very large or the influx of new people makes it hard to sense artistic growth.

There are two important lessons that I have learned from DPC and some other photographic sites regarding comments:
1. A lack of comments indicates you failed to capture the viewer's interest. I learned this by posting many in focus and properly exposed images that generated absolutely no interest. Then, by luck, I hit on one or two images that received a fair number of comments and 'favorite' selections. Same audience, so I had to accept that lack of comments simply means the image just didn't grab the viewer's attention.
2. If my images don't generate interest, I look to publications with strong photogaphy to find what is missing. I have a few online mentors that are very helpful but I have also realized artistic growth comes from challenging myself and studying what I feel to be great work. I value any comments I receive because they allow me to understand the viewers perception of my work, but I do not expect them to make me a better photographer.
02/07/2006 11:45:31 AM · #23
I wish people would comment more. It seems that winning photos have so many more comments than ones that don't. It seems people would rather say why they like a photo rather than why they do not.

My biggest frustration is monitors that are not calibrated for the correct brightness or darkness. My last entry, which won first place in a local competition, was panned by a few people who said it was too dark. A properly calibrated monitor would show that it is not too dark. This does not require calibration software but just looking at the bottom of your screen when voting and make sure you can see all the bars from white to black. I know it sounds nitpicky but if you spend a lot of time in post on your photo and some one does not have their monitor set as they should, it is like someone reseting brightness levels on your picture.
02/07/2006 11:29:29 AM · #24
Originally posted by stdavidson:


Ellen. I dunno, you've been around longer than me but the amount of whining seems about the same to me. ;)

Btw, I STILL say your "Boston" image from the Urban Landscapes challenge could benefit with an application of NeatImage. LOL!!!


Trying to goad me into rebutting?? Almost worked.
02/07/2006 11:05:14 AM · #25
Originally posted by emorgan49:

Become a bag head! It really cuts down on the angry PMs. ...

And yes, I leave far fewer comments now that the culture of complain-and-strike-back has taken root, In the old days it wasnt like that, or was it?

Ellen. I dunno, you've been around longer than me but the amount of whining seems about the same to me. ;)

Btw, I STILL say your "Boston" image from the Urban Landscapes challenge could benefit with an application of NeatImage. LOL!!!
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 10/31/2020 12:37:32 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2020 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Proudly hosted by Sargasso Networks. Current Server Time: 10/31/2020 12:37:32 PM EDT.