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07/10/2006 01:14:54 PM · #1
OK, I just had to bring this up. Yes, I'm flogging a dead horse, but I think there is a small chance it will be useful in the quest to get different checkboxes of "I read this comment" and "This comment was helpful".

I ran across this doing my usual 4.5-5.5 comments from Elvis_L.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/516/thumb/356495.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/516/thumb/356495.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

You don't have to look at the comments, I'll post them for you (there were four).

Great color.
Great photo. Colors are really nice. Great job.
sadsfa
Good job!

Avg (commenters): 3.333

At this moment I fully grasp the futility felt by people who are new to photography and are looking for constructing criticism on their entries.
07/10/2006 01:17:34 PM · #2
Yeah, that is very strange.

But, why would changing the checkboxes to "I read this comment" and "This comment was helpful" make any difference in this situation? I am in favour of changing the checkboxes to something else, yet that, in itself, wouldn't change a thing here.

07/10/2006 01:20:44 PM · #3
Originally posted by DrAchoo:


Great color.
Great photo. Colors are really nice. Great job.
sadsfa
Good job!

Avg (commenters): 3.333

At this moment I fully grasp the futility felt by people who are new to photography and are looking for constructing criticism on their entries.


What does "sadsfa" mean?
07/10/2006 01:20:47 PM · #4
What has me confused is how FOUR scores can give an average of '3.3333' ?

Whatever way you split it, it's going to be x.25, x.5 or x.75

Unless one of the commenters scores was thrown out, of course
07/10/2006 01:21:35 PM · #5
Originally posted by jhonan:

What has me confused is how FOUR scores can give an average of '3.3333' ?

Whatever way you split it, it's going to be x.25, x.5 or x.75

Unless one of the commenters scores was thrown out, of course


"sadsfa" only made one comment ever - that one..... so his was thrown out.
07/10/2006 01:22:15 PM · #6
Originally posted by jhonan:

What has me confused is how FOUR scores can give an average of '3.3333' ?

Whatever way you split it, it's going to be x.25, x.5 or x.75

Unless one of the commenters scores was thrown out, of course


You can leave a comment without voting, I think. I know that non-paying members can leave comments on challenges they can not vote in.

Message edited by author 2006-07-10 13:22:48.
07/10/2006 01:22:46 PM · #7
Originally posted by ursula:

Yeah, that is very strange.

But, why would changing the checkboxes to "I read this comment" and "This comment was helpful" make any difference in this situation? I am in favour of changing the checkboxes to something else, yet that, in itself, wouldn't change a thing here.


I have seen people chastised for their average vote given being below 4. It's just a public way where people can be held accountable for leaving crap comments. I don't care if you leave 10,000 comments if only a small portion of them are more than 2 words and most are not found to be helpful.

At the least it may dry up the drivel a bit. Sure that will lead to even LESS comments, but that may be a good thing in this case because the comments appear to be detrimental. Elvis_L may come away thinking, hey, 4 people liked my shot (ok, 3 people and one drunk) without seeing that really they thought very little of the shot.
07/10/2006 01:23:57 PM · #8
Originally posted by idnic:

"sadsfa" only made one comment ever - that one..... so his was thrown out.

Which means that the voters who said "great job.." etc voted 2x3's and a 4?
07/10/2006 01:24:51 PM · #9
Originally posted by scarbrd:

You can leave a comment without voting, I think. I know that non-paying members can leave comments on challenges they can not vote in.
Ah yes, that would change the equation.
07/10/2006 01:27:17 PM · #10
sadsfa: all the home keys of the left hand. Probably just entered junk to leave a comment.
07/10/2006 01:28:59 PM · #11
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by ursula:

Yeah, that is very strange.

But, why would changing the checkboxes to "I read this comment" and "This comment was helpful" make any difference in this situation? I am in favour of changing the checkboxes to something else, yet that, in itself, wouldn't change a thing here.


I have seen people chastised for their average vote given being below 4. It's just a public way where people can be held accountable for leaving crap comments. I don't care if you leave 10,000 comments if only a small portion of them are more than 2 words and most are not found to be helpful.

At the least it may dry up the drivel a bit. Sure that will lead to even LESS comments, but that may be a good thing in this case because the comments appear to be detrimental. Elvis_L may come away thinking, hey, 4 people liked my shot (ok, 3 people and one drunk) without seeing that really they thought very little of the shot.


Yes, I agree with your general thinking about comments and commenting. Yet, in this case, I would assume that the Elvis_L would have marked the three good job comments as "helpful", or at least "flattering" if that option were available. Just "read" doesn't make sense in that case. So, how would your suggestion to change the checkboxes help in this case?

07/10/2006 01:33:30 PM · #12
Even if you can comment without voting, that doesn't explain the average by commenters. You pretty much have to have 3 voters to come up with 3.333 which would mean that 3 of those commenters voted.
07/10/2006 01:36:44 PM · #13
Hmm, well, I'm not sure. Personally, I would have only marked 1 as helpful (the one attempt at some critique) and that would have been a stretch. I do, however, like keeping track of my comments and letting the commenter know I read it.

The effect would only take place over hundreds of comments. The poor commenters would receive negative feedback for their efforts and stop doing it. Some people may be spurred to leave better comments.

It seems like it couldn't hurt and I think the status quo is a poor state to be in.

I've stopped leaving many comments and instead chose to leave a paragraph on a few. So I'm down to 10-15 comments a week, but I bet even with that I'm in the 95th percentile if you used word count.
07/10/2006 01:42:12 PM · #14
OK, makes sense. I can go with that line of thinking. But I'm not sure that it would have the intended effect.

If there is to be accountability in commenting, that accountability can't come from those receiving the comments, but from those making them. Maybe a solution would be to create categories of comments, so that if you enter a comment you need to mark whether you intend it as a comment on the picture, a question about the picture, a simple congratulation, stuff like that. That would also have the effect of reducing the number of comments, but it would put the responsibility where it needs to be.

BTW, it would be impossible IMO to tie comments to scores. If someone leaves a comment, "Great picture!", and gives a score of 3, I think you're simply out of luck unless voting were public, and that's not going to happen.

Message edited by author 2006-07-10 13:44:09.
07/10/2006 01:49:01 PM · #15
Originally posted by ursula:

BTW, it would be impossible IMO to tie comments to scores. If someone leaves a comment, "Great picture!", and gives a score of 3, I think you're simply out of luck unless voting were public, and that's not going to happen.


I agree with you here. I think we just found an obvious example that could paint the poor state our commenting is in on this site. We KNOW, in this case, that the comments and the scores had little correlation. Maybe there were unbelievers that such stuff occurs.
07/10/2006 01:55:31 PM · #16
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by ursula:

BTW, it would be impossible IMO to tie comments to scores. If someone leaves a comment, "Great picture!", and gives a score of 3, I think you're simply out of luck unless voting were public, and that's not going to happen.


I agree with you here. I think we just found an obvious example that could paint the poor state our commenting is in on this site. We KNOW, in this case, that the comments and the scores had little correlation. Maybe there were unbelievers that such stuff occurs.


I don't think that the state of commenting is that poor on this site. I think there are quite a few participants who truly try to make their commenting meaningful and helpful.

It is true that this is a good example of comments not relating to given scores, and I haven't checked into this carefully so I'm guessing, but, going by my own pictures, usually the score left by commenters is higher than the average score for all voters.

Maybe it would be good to not break it down that way, that is, to not post an average score for commenters vs. non-commenters. After all, it has also been argued that there is too much emphasis on scores, and how scores are not a true reflection of the value of an image, but simple of it's popularity at any given time.
07/10/2006 02:13:33 PM · #17
I just ran across this thread and at the chance of sounding totally off topic and highjacking this thread the comment from a user [link removed] sounded suspiciously like the comment she gave my entry, and well looks like she gave a whole lot just like it in the same challenge too :)

Message edited by frisca - removed link to user.
07/10/2006 02:19:55 PM · #18
Originally posted by scarbrd:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:


Great color.
Great photo. Colors are really nice. Great job.
sadsfa
Good job!

Avg (commenters): 3.333

At this moment I fully grasp the futility felt by people who are new to photography and are looking for constructing criticism on their entries.


What does "sadsfa" mean?


If you'll notice, those keys are the ones that rest underneath your left hand when you are in standard typing position. So "sadsfa" is typical of someone just pushing down on the keys to simulate a real comment (a variation on the classic "asdf").
07/10/2006 02:20:17 PM · #19
Perhaps you should read Frisca's Past Post in case you had missed it before...just my opinion of course.

07/10/2006 02:22:11 PM · #20
Originally posted by Larus:

I just ran across this thread and at the chance of sounding totally off topic and highjacking this thread the comment from this user [link removed] sounded suspiciously like the comment she gave my entry, and well looks like she gave a whole lot just like it in the same challenge too :)


Notice also that 100% of those comments were marked helpful, so some people like encouraging comments.

Message edited by frisca - clean up .
07/10/2006 02:35:11 PM · #21
Originally posted by emorgan49:

Originally posted by Larus:

I just ran across this thread and at the chance of sounding totally off topic and highjacking this thread the comment from this user sounded suspiciously like the comment she gave my entry, and well looks like she gave a whole lot just like it in the same challenge too :)


Notice also that 100% of those comments were marked helpful, so some people like encouraging comments.


I actually marked them all helpfull(except for the jiberish) because I have been chastised before about marking some helpfull and not others (when I didn't agree with the comment left) so now I just mark them all helpfull. personally I don't care if i get "good job" comments( of cousre I like them:) I just want comments that help me get better. I think that over the last few months I have gotten many of those (several from the same people posting in this thread)

I agree that there needs to be more check boxes. how about one named " this comment stroked my ego and I love them for it"

or for the ones posted to the ribbon winners after voting " this person is kissing my ass 'cause I am a winner and I love it!"

or for those that posted a negative comment on a ribbon winner during voting " this comment doesn't really matter 'cause I won :P"

by the way all of the above was in jest please take it that way:)

P.S. thanks for directing so many people to view my below avg shot Doc!:P

now please people go look at some of my better stuff and realize I am not as bad as that photo shows (then again maybe I am) just go look anyway!

Message edited by author 2006-07-10 14:37:47.
07/10/2006 02:37:51 PM · #22
Originally posted by emorgan49:

Originally posted by Larus:

I just ran across this thread and at the chance of sounding totally off topic and highjacking this thread the comment from this user sounded suspiciously like the comment she gave my entry, and well looks like she gave a whole lot just like it in the same challenge too :)


Notice also that 100% of those comments were marked helpful, so some people like encouraging comments.


Well I for one mark all my comments received helpful but a handful since I started here, I just think it´s common courtesy as that person at least spent some time typing it in. I am suddenly inclined to unmark this one as I didn´t realize the person had copy pasted it all over the challenge.
07/10/2006 02:54:52 PM · #23
my guess on the "sadsfa" comment is that someone didn't realize you don't have to leave comments. They may not have thought their vote would count otherwise.
07/10/2006 02:58:22 PM · #24
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

my guess on the "sadsfa" comment is that someone didn't realize you don't have to leave comments. They may not have thought their vote would count otherwise.


they made 189 votes and only the one comment ever. kinda wierd. also they vote very high just not for me :(

Message edited by author 2006-07-10 14:59:41.
07/10/2006 02:58:49 PM · #25
Edit; didn't mean to "call out" anyone. Just saying that when somewhen makes the same comment on every entry, you can't be sure if they mean it. They could be saying nice job while giving you a 2.



Message edited by author 2006-07-10 15:28:10.
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