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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Would it be okay to have groups discuss entries?
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07/26/2006 03:28:46 AM · #1
Esp. among us newbies, I see a lot of forum posts like "man, I chose the wrong one." I know I've had that experience, anyway!

What do folks think of my forming a pre-submission exchange group? I know that'd mean we'd know each others' entries, but I'm thinking the benefit of discussing and sharing and learning from each other would outweigh the minor possible impact of a few votes out of hundreds.

I realize this may be brushing up against community norms.
07/26/2006 03:31:18 AM · #2
I think a post-voting group may be more "appropriate" for the fairness of the challenge, but then who am I to say what's appropriate and what's not?
07/26/2006 03:34:08 AM · #3
I agree with crayon...but as long as you don't bring out any of the specifics of your shot, wouldn't saying "Crap, I picked the wrong one" be ok. In one of the other ones, someone came right out and said which picture was theirs...hrmmmm
07/26/2006 10:29:19 AM · #4
I think this already happens quite a bit...it's just not in open forum. Friends helping friends, whether it's a husband/wife team, or a group of DPC friends chatting elsewhere.

The community as a whole has a great respect for anonymity in challenges, so you wouldn't be doing yourself any favors to post a shot or several before-hand. But, if you have a couple of friends with mutual respect and discuss some entry choices off the forum....... Just try to remain objective in voting...
07/26/2006 10:56:30 AM · #5
Oh, I guess I wasn't clear. I absolutely meant offline.

Just a small group of folks who exchange ideas, show test shots, etc.

Exactly as the married couples and friends do, but since neither my wife nor friends are on DPC, it'd be with folks who'd sign up.
07/26/2006 11:25:09 AM · #6
Originally posted by levyj413:

Oh, I guess I wasn't clear. I absolutely meant offline.

Just a small group of folks who exchange ideas, show test shots, etc.

Exactly as the married couples and friends do, but since neither my wife nor friends are on DPC, it'd be with folks who'd sign up.

This is fine ... there is already a "chat group" which talks about things in and out of DPC. The only thing which would be against the rules would be to discuss voting strategies, but helping each other take better pictures is kind of the point of the whole thing ... : )
07/26/2006 12:05:12 PM · #7
I respect your desire to improve your photography, and am sympathetic to your not having any family members in this community to share things with. I, too, suffer from that disadvantage. But I balance that against a measure of pride in all of my entries being entirely my own work.

I fear that what you propose might be the beginning of a slippery slope leading to members of your group, or others like it, subtlely and/or subconsciously effecting the scoring. Contrary to popular opinion, even a change of a point or two in only a handful of votes can make the difference of who gets a ribbon, or a top ten. You would, to a certain extent, be giving yourself and the members of any such group, an advantage that other competitors do not have access to.

The concept of anonymity is very important to the challenges here, indeed it is essential. But the concept is also important beyond dpc if you are interested in truely objective criticism. To me, the potential gains from something like what you propose are far outweighed by the potential damage they could do to our system of learning and honest competition via the challenges.
07/26/2006 12:12:44 PM · #8
Originally posted by coolhar:

... To me, the potential gains from something like what you propose are far outweighed by the potential damage they could do to our system of learning and honest competition via the challenges.

Haven't we been down this path before just recently (in the forums I mean)?

I agree with you Harv, and I prefer to stay anonymous and do my own work, but I don't think it's realistic. Not naming names, but I was told specifically by a WPL Team Leader that discussion of challenge entries by the team was going to be encouraged.

There are many on both sides of this camp, of which strong opinions will continue to be held.
07/26/2006 12:37:53 PM · #9
Originally posted by glad2badad:

I agree with you Harv, and I prefer to stay anonymous and do my own work, but I don't think it's realistic. Not naming names, but I was told specifically by a WPL Team Leader that discussion of challenge entries by the team was going to be encouraged.

There are many on both sides of this camp, of which strong opinions will continue to be held.
This sort of confirms my worst fears about the teams thing.

It may be unrealistic, but I hope you are wrong about that.

I believe that there are many measures that could be taken to strengthen anonymity, and the fairness of the challenges, but they will be faced with opposition. Perhaps the first step should be to develope a community level desire for making, and keeping, the competitions as fair as possible without a major adverse effect on the learning aspect. I wish we would start to take these threats to the way we do our challenges a little more seriously instead of repeatedly belittling the significance of every minor infringement to anonymity that comes along, often in the name of maintaining learning. dpc has grown an awful lot from the days when it could be characterized as a cluster of trustworthy friends.
07/26/2006 12:38:11 PM · #10
not that it really matters to most, but team underexposed decided that the most we would share were ideas we don't use ourselves...

though, if we'd had discussions on which photo to submit or not, maybe i would have posted my two lowest scores to date this week... doh!
07/26/2006 12:42:28 PM · #11
This is all the communication I've had with my team...

DPChallenge user muckpond has sent you the following private message:

you suck so bad for not entering any challenges! if we lose, it's your fault, you lazy piece of crap. it's not like your scores are that good anyway...just submit something so that we don't forfeit. lamer.

------
To reply to this message, click the following link:
//www.dpchallenge.com/message.php?USER_ID=2170

Do not reply to this e-mail -- this is not muckpond's e-mail address.
07/26/2006 12:43:55 PM · #12
Originally posted by mk:

This is all the communication I've had with my team...

DPChallenge user muckpond has sent you the following private message:

you suck so bad for not entering any challenges! if we lose, it's your fault, you lazy piece of crap. it's not like your scores are that good anyway...just submit something so that we don't forfeit. lamer.

------
To reply to this message, click the following link:
//www.dpchallenge.com/message.php?USER_ID=2170

Do not reply to this e-mail -- this is not muckpond's e-mail address.

Hilarious!!! Thanks for sharing that MK! ;^)
07/26/2006 12:47:33 PM · #13
Originally posted by mk:

This is all the communication I've had with my team...

DPChallenge user muckpond has sent you the following private message:

you suck so bad for not entering any challenges! if we lose, it's your fault, you lazy piece of crap. it's not like your scores are that good anyway...just submit something so that we don't forfeit. lamer.

------
To reply to this message, click the following link:
//www.dpchallenge.com/message.php?USER_ID=2170

Do not reply to this e-mail -- this is not muckpond's e-mail address.


jejeje™ Aren't we supposed to REPORT communications like this? I suggest you send an official PM to Muckpond complaining about the way Muckpond is treating you...

R.
07/26/2006 01:02:10 PM · #14
DPChallenge user mk has sent you the following private message:

dear f*ckpond:

f you and your wpl team. i'd enter, but i happen to have a cat who is dying of a horrible disease and my dear, sainted husband has to use my camera as chock for his wheelchair since the foundation of our house gave out and he keeps rolling backwards while watching "america's got talent."

i spit on you and your P.O.S entries.

xo,
mk

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//www.dpchallenge.com/message.php?USER_ID=70

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that's all i'm sayin'

Message edited by author 2006-07-26 13:02:22.
07/26/2006 02:03:38 PM · #15
Originally posted by muckpond:

that's all i'm sayin'


true dat
07/26/2006 02:53:22 PM · #16
I can confirm that The Olympians do not discuss our entries at all and I'm sure there are other teams like that.
07/26/2006 04:09:34 PM · #17
Believe it or not, my team neither shares entries nor discusses voting ideas or practices. We do email each other several times a week, encouraging each other's scores and sharing our excitement (or lack thereof) in new challenge topics. ;)

It seems to be working so far; we Shutterbugz moms are kicking some photo boo-tay. ' . substr('//smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/7/ale.gif', strrpos('//smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/7/ale.gif', '/') + 1) . '

07/26/2006 04:37:23 PM · #18
My team doesn't talk about crap , hell half of them don't even enter :) of course I have to talk to my wife who is a team member but the last time she listend to me she scored one of her lowest scores ever and hated me the entire week:)
07/26/2006 04:48:24 PM · #19
Originally posted by laurielblack:

Believe it or not, my team neither shares entries nor discusses voting ideas or practices. We do email each other several times a week, encouraging each other's scores and sharing our excitement (or lack thereof) in new challenge topics. ;)

It seems to be working so far; we Shutterbugz moms are kicking some photo boo-tay. ' . substr('//smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/7/ale.gif', strrpos('//smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/7/ale.gif', '/') + 1) . '


This is pretty much how it is with Pixelstorm, my beloved team. Except for the kicking boo-tay part :-) We're not really doing much of that, either. (but we try!)
07/26/2006 04:54:41 PM · #20
Originally posted by levyj413:

Oh, I guess I wasn't clear. I absolutely meant offline.

Just a small group of folks who exchange ideas, show test shots, etc.

Exactly as the married couples and friends do, but since neither my wife nor friends are on DPC, it'd be with folks who'd sign up.


I'd be keen to be part of something like this, not before the challenge but after. It is hard to get lots of constructive comments on "average" submissions without posting in the forums after the challenge and I dont't want to do that with every entry.

A group that trades comments etc and maybe even demonstrates improvements after challenges would be something I'd love to get involved with. I am not very experienced with PS and have not yet scored a 6.

PM me if you'd like to do something like this or if you already have a group I could join.
07/26/2006 11:34:06 PM · #21
Thanks, everyone. I've combined this concept with a group to explore techniques in this thread:
//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=434441
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