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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Ghost Accounts, Recalculations, and A Suspension
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08/01/2006 04:49:12 PM · #1
locking this thread. I think all that was to say has been said.
08/01/2006 04:45:59 PM · #2
Originally posted by scalvert:

... IMHO, someone who claims to see cheating in every challenge, but doesn't report any foul play is just arm waving and/or rumor mongering.
Which is the greater transgression - to suspect cheating and not report it; or to be the one responsible for enforcing the rules who misses the signs that others see, and ignores them when they are pointed out? I, for one, don't think the atmosphere here at dpc is very encouraging to people reporting suspected cheaters. Heck, lots of people have said openly in the forms that they don't even like to request validations when they spot suspected violations of editing rules. They are reluctant even when it is anonymous and private, they are specificially expected to do so, and provided with an easy means of doing it. Why would the community be inclined to report suspected cheaters when they have to name names?
08/01/2006 04:43:36 PM · #3
Thank you for your voice of reason, Gary. I know Rikki has been reading along when he can and I'm sure he'll appreciate your fair, and not unkind words.
08/01/2006 04:38:56 PM · #4
Perhaps a good note to end this thread on????
08/01/2006 04:37:14 PM · #5
Hey Rikki, I know you are keeping up with this thread and reading everything going down here. Bummer what you did, I am sorry it happened, but didn't you ever think you might get caught out sometime? This all kind of reminds me of Floyd Landis winning the Tour de France and getting hit on for doping afterwards, it was the first thing I thought about when I read here what happened. The only difference is that you admitted it immediately. I have a lot of mixed feelings about this, I am not too sure what I should think about it at the moment, there are many feelings going through me.

I wouldn't mind hearing what you have to say about it and seeing you can't post here anymore please feel free to write me, you have my email.

I haven't read this whole thread and I am not going to, I can only guess what is going down here. But whatever, I don't think you are a bad person, you are a good photographer who went down a wrong street and you probably regret that very badly now and have to pay the price for it. But I believe everyone is allowed one mistake and this is yours. Your photos are cool Rikki, you didn't need to do what you did to confirm that, you would have done just as well without the extra help from your friends.

Write me okay!

Gary
08/01/2006 04:33:23 PM · #6
About 8 pages ago I figured just about every drop was squeezed out of this lemon. It amazes me how many directions this thread has gone and quite frankly I'm surprised an online fist fight hasn't broken out over some of the later comments.
The most intelligent AND mature thing said... for me at least was the comment about a good opportunity for a chat with someones kid. Don't know who said it and can't be bothered to go back now, but MAN! Talk about finding something very good in a s*** situation. My hat is off to you!
I would really like it if SC would start considering putting a lid on the thread now. It seems to me that hard feelings are about to develop and I've gotten kinda used to coming home and knowing that there is a really cool place to hide out in for a while and I really don't want to see it change because of one persons antics. I love the diverseness of this place.
Gonna go and pick a favorite from the person above me now... :)

Rudy
08/01/2006 04:28:17 PM · #7
did i say anything to the effect?

the site has a way of throwing out troll votes, my thought was merely a concept that could be used to pin point those who you might assume are hanging around here legitimately...

Originally posted by maryba:

The friends/family voting support for Rikki was an aberration. I believe we need to assume good intentions of members and voters until there is reason to assume otherwise.

I could vote a "10" for every Philadelphia landmark that I see that fits the challenge because it evokes an emotional response from me. My one vote is not going to make a difference.


Message edited by author 2006-08-01 16:28:58.
08/01/2006 04:17:09 PM · #8
Originally posted by Nitin:

Originally posted by posthumous:

actually, the speech you quoted is making the same point you are making.


I know.. the only reason I quoted it is to say it seems to be falling on deaf ears.


they have ears, but they will not hear. (not shakespeare)
08/01/2006 04:11:41 PM · #9
Originally posted by hokie:

I said a lot of people get over competetive, not
all or most. Why do people continue to read posts in absolutes when there were no words to say such?

Ok, my mistake... but your suggestion that every challenge is tainted by lesser or greater forms of deliberate cheating to which you seem to have some insight is either disingenuous or alarmist.
08/01/2006 04:05:48 PM · #10
Originally posted by posthumous:

actually, the speech you quoted is making the same point you are making.


I know.. the only reason I quoted it is to say it seems to be falling on deaf ears.

08/01/2006 04:02:13 PM · #11
Originally posted by Nitin:

I am amazed at the amount of hostility in this thread.

Someone did something wrong, was found out, a year's suspension was handed out, yet there's 30 pages of ....


The fact that there are 30 pages should clearly tell you that this was not as simple as you stated it.
08/01/2006 04:02:12 PM · #12
Originally posted by Nitin:

I am amazed at the amount of hostility in this thread.

Someone did something wrong, was found out, a year's suspension was handed out, yet there's 30 pages of ....

Originally posted by BrennanOB:


When that the newbies had processing issues, Rikki hath help;
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.

O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Good speech, Mark Antony.. unfortunately there are no Romans here :(

.

A year ago, my spouse and I used to vote each other a 10 every time. We no longer do that, but i'm sure half the people on this thread would want me hanged. Please go ahead and ban me if it helps restore the site's credibility.


actually, the speech you quoted is making the same point you are making.

Posthumous
President, ASPCS (American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Shakespeare)
08/01/2006 04:01:18 PM · #13
Originally posted by hokie:



You see...I am the kind of guy that says if you are taking payments under the table without paying taxes..you are just as guilty of tax evasion as the big guys. Have I ever done this? Yep. Would I turn someone in that I knew did this? Nope. Does this make me a criminal? Perhaps.


Originally posted by scalvert:


IMHO, someone who claims to see cheating in every challenge, but doesn't report any foul play is just arm waving and/or rumor mongering.

I totally agree, I think that if you see cheating every challenge report it to SC and save the integrity of the site. And if your not going to report the cheating you see then you shouldn't be telling everyone alot of people are cheating but your not going to say who because thats not what you do.
08/01/2006 04:01:13 PM · #14
Originally posted by maryba:


The friends/family voting support for Rikki was an aberration. I believe we need to assume good intentions of members and voters until there is reason to assume otherwise.

I could vote a "10" for every Philadelphia landmark that I see that fits the challenge because it evokes an emotional response from me. My one vote is not going to make a difference.


I ..personally..think that your friends and family SHOULD vote you higher "gasp"....

(brief pause to let all the holier than thou's catch their breath).

I mean..if you friends and family are having discussions with you about your photography, subjects, techniques, reasoning behind subject matter, etc... it only makes sense they will have a better understanding of the effort and meaning behind your images..leadig to higher votes generally.

I think that is natural. I hope people are doing that.

Yep...I just suggested that everyone cheat. Go to your friends and family and talk about your photos, ask their advice, share your emotions. Photography is an awesome gift. If you can't take this hobby and share it with the people closest to you..what is the purpose?

I often share my ideas with my wife and my daughter. My daughter goes to college as a theatre major and has over 25 other college friends. College friends with internet connections. College friends that I teach photo and design to on occasion as a guest.

I ask my daughter not to share current photos in contests with her friends and she is very responsible about that. But, sometimes my subjects are student oriented and there is no way around them knowing.

Do you see the problem? Photography is a very big part of my life in my profession and hobby. Sometimes the DPC world and the real world meet each other and that is unavoidable.

I don't see my situation the same as rikki's but, some people could and what do you do? That is why I have become less competetive in my DPC world...to avoid the very real temptations. I think my scoring has proven this out :-p
08/01/2006 03:57:32 PM · #15
I am amazed at the amount of hostility in this thread.

Someone did something wrong, was found out, a year's suspension was handed out, yet there's 30 pages of ....

Originally posted by BrennanOB:


When that the newbies had processing issues, Rikki hath help;
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.

O judgement! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Good speech, Mark Antony.. unfortunately there are no Romans here :(

.

A year ago, my spouse and I used to vote each other a 10 every time. We no longer do that, but i'm sure half the people on this thread would want me hanged. Please go ahead and ban me if it helps restore the site's credibility.

08/01/2006 03:56:57 PM · #16
Originally posted by aliqui:

I saw this in another thread and INSTANTLY thought of this one.

' . substr('//4fxearth.net/phpBB2/smilies_mod/upload/1beb8b2ae6d61633f35d740313c6c610.gif', strrpos('//4fxearth.net/phpBB2/smilies_mod/upload/1beb8b2ae6d61633f35d740313c6c610.gif', '/') + 1) . '


Now I really like that smilie!!
08/01/2006 03:55:07 PM · #17
Originally posted by hokie:

1) Sharing your photo with others that can vote.


You actually SEE this in every challenge? Breaking anonymity is strongly discouraged, but not against the rules. As such, revealing your entry to another person is not cheating, but influencing the scores is. If you ask someone to vote your image high or show it to lots of people likely to demonstrate favoritism, then that's a problem, but shooting next to another DPCer or letting a spouse watch you edit doesn't qualify as cheating IMO.

Originally posted by hokie:

2) Skilled photoshop users know how to accomplish edits that look perfectly legal...


Skilled SC members know how to spot them. Again, you SEE "edits that look perfectly legal" in every challenge?

Originally posted by hokie:

3) Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking the rules and is no less guilty


Ignorance and mistakes will result in a penalty, but accidentally entering the wrong challenge, or failing to interpret the rules when you barely understand English isn't the same as cheating. That implies an intent.

IMHO, someone who claims to see cheating in every challenge, but doesn't report any foul play is just arm waving and/or rumor mongering.

Message edited by author 2006-08-01 15:57:40.
08/01/2006 03:45:51 PM · #18
Originally posted by soup:

i am talking about tracking the progression of a trend. i would assume that each landmark image you so kindly vote a 10 would likely come from a variety of photographers. if it so happens that they all do originate from the same photographer - you're votes would be flagged, and your reasoning questioned. if it is only this one instance of coincidence the flag would be dropped. if every toronto photographer consistently received only 9's & 10's from you - then you'd probably face the same fate...

Originally posted by StrikeSlip:

Typically, if I see a Toronto-area landmark in a contest, I vote it a 10, even though I don't know who's it is. I'm not sure how many Toronto area photogs are here. A pretty fair number, though. Tough titties. Toronto landmarks get 10's from me.
:-P


The friends/family voting support for Rikki was an aberration. I believe we need to assume good intentions of members and voters until there is reason to assume otherwise.

I could vote a "10" for every Philadelphia landmark that I see that fits the challenge because it evokes an emotional response from me. My one vote is not going to make a difference.
08/01/2006 03:37:19 PM · #19
Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by hokie:

Rikki got over competetive, like a lot of people on this site, and used whatever tools at his disposal to improve his odds. He got caught.

I see an example of this behaviour in every challenge, I have even got over-zealous with the burn and dodge tool and paid the price.

If you try to slip a few extra clone strokes by the rules, if you share your photos with others before the challenges, if you have you wife and kids voting in blocks or photo teams....it's all the same in different measures. You want an edge.

Hm, have to take serious exception to this. I would like to think that the majority of participants make every effort to abide the rules, not skirt or bend them at every opportunity.

I would also like to think that you would submit a ticket when you see an example, as you state in every challenge, of someone using whatever tools at his/her disposal to improve his/her odds while trying not to get caught. It's disappointing in the extreme that someone with that kind of information would not want to protect the integrity of the competition.

Yes, I must take exception at the suggestion that everyone would do the same to a greater or lesser degree. That's a very cynical attitude.

edit: fix quoting


Once again, I did not say everyone would do it.

I said a lot of people get over competetive, not
all or most. Why do people continue to read posts in absolutes when there were no words to say such?

My point about cheating in every challenge stands. I define cheating as...

1) Sharing your photo with others that can vote. Regardless of what most people say...people you know and like will vote you better than people you don't know. Disagree all you want.

2) Skilled photoshop users know how to accomplish edits that look perfectly legal and, for all intents and purposes, are not really unfair but use techniques that byt the letter of the rules are illegal.

3) Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking the rules and is no less guilty, regardles of what some think. Tell you what. Next time you get caught speeding tell the State Trooper you didn't know you were in a 45 mph zone when he clocks you at 65. lets see how many let you off.

Now, just because I listed what I think is cheating don't assume I want everyone strung up based on this. I am just saying, with the rules as they are, these are cheating offenses.

You see...I am the kind of guy that says if you are taking payments under the table without paying taxes..you are just as guilty of tax evasion as the big guys. Have I ever done this? Yep. Would I turn someone in that I knew did this? Nope. Does this make me a criminal? Perhaps.

Message edited by author 2006-08-01 15:40:10.
08/01/2006 03:35:57 PM · #20
I saw this in another thread and INSTANTLY thought of this one.

' . substr('//4fxearth.net/phpBB2/smilies_mod/upload/1beb8b2ae6d61633f35d740313c6c610.gif', strrpos('//4fxearth.net/phpBB2/smilies_mod/upload/1beb8b2ae6d61633f35d740313c6c610.gif', '/') + 1) . '
08/01/2006 03:33:45 PM · #21
Doh! I think by the backwards spelling he means the opposite of a Troll? :-P
08/01/2006 03:33:20 PM · #22
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by scarbrd:

...to truly restore the credibility; they need to purge the votes from the offending parties.


[opinion]I think the rationale behind NOT tossing all of the friend votes went something like this: An enthusiastic member encourages his buddies to participate in or at least vote on the challenges. They oblige and vote as anyone else would, with the sole exception that they knew which entry was their his and gave him an artificially high vote (whether requested or not). They may have voted on the the other entries fairly and with due consideration, but only went as far as they needed to for their votes to count. While it's certainly possible that they just skimmed through, there's nothing in the voting record to suggest that was the case, and we tend to give the benefit of the doubt. They still gave 10's to top-placing images and low votes to low-placing images. Tossing ALL of those votes might only create more havoc, dragging down even more entries or ribbons not normally affected by a DQ behind them.[/opinion]


I understand the rationale completely. Really, I do.

To really come to that conclusion the SC would have to analyze each and every challenge and ghost account, see who they were voting for, see if there are other connections, etc. Just as likely as the scenario you lay out is that Rikki was directing the votes, or even voting himself, trying very cleverly to cover his tracks. The only thing he couldn't mask was the disproportionate amount of 10 votes on his own images, and that is what ultimately lead to him getting caught.

The point is we do not know. We may never know for sure. We do know this, if the deleted accounts votes are disallowed, then they have had no effect on the results of the challenges.

08/01/2006 03:32:15 PM · #23
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

...if I see a Toronto-area landmark in a contest, I vote it a 10... Tough titties. Toronto landmarks get 10's from me. :-P


You might be a LLORT!


heheheeeee
08/01/2006 03:31:27 PM · #24
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

...if I see a Toronto-area landmark in a contest, I vote it a 10... Tough titties. Toronto landmarks get 10's from me. :-P


You might be a LLORT!

LOL, OK, I'll bite... What's an LLORT? :-D


Spell it backwards...

R.
08/01/2006 03:30:21 PM · #25
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

...if I see a Toronto-area landmark in a contest, I vote it a 10... Tough titties. Toronto landmarks get 10's from me. :-P


You might be a LLORT!

LOL, OK, I'll bite... What's an LLORT? :-D
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