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08/21/2006 12:19:40 AM · #1
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/537/thumb/379440.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/537/thumb/379440.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Explain yourselves. Tell me in very precise terms why this was deserving of less than a 6. Because honestly, even taking a step back, even after looking at it all damn week, based on the rest of the challenge content I personally would have scored it an 8. I acknowledge that not everyone votes on my scale and we all have different tastes, but I received only one very minor critical comment that wasn't merely chalked up to personal taste, and that one was a 6. Not one single voter scoring 5 and under bothered to critique.

Did you think it didn't meet the challenge, even though it clearly showed fire? It's a very small part of the photo, but it's what every single person in the photo is looking at. It is clearly the center of attention.

Is a snowball that is on fire and its effect of surprise on the girl not "powerful" enough?

Did you think it was illegally altered, though I received no validation requests?

Did you just want another boring flame shot?

In the spirit of learning, for god's sake, critique. Justify your votes!
08/21/2006 12:22:59 AM · #2
The composition is lackluster. The fire element is nowhere near prominent enough for this particular challenge. The partial desat looks a little precious to me. It just seems a fairly run-of-the-mill image to me, and there are a LOT of spectacular images in this challenge, so...

Robt.
08/21/2006 12:23:24 AM · #3
Perhaps the voters simply didn't like it!

On a personal note, the selective desat does not make any sense to me...
08/21/2006 12:24:38 AM · #4
Karma...I think it is a shot that has great potential. I don't know if the shot was planned but to me it seems very candid. The background clutter and audience are very distracting. Maybe getting a lower perspective with the snowball nearer to the camera looking up towards the girls furprised face would be so much better. Even having her face slightly out of focus with the emphasis on the flame in her hands. This is only my opinion but I thought I would try to help you.
08/21/2006 12:26:28 AM · #5
Selective desaturation is often very gimmicky and seems to be used when a better depth of field wasn't achieved. That's the entry's biggest problem for me, in addition to the lack of prominence that Bear stated.
08/21/2006 12:28:25 AM · #6
Originally posted by Judi:

Karma...I think it is a shot that has great potential. I don't know if the shot was planned but to me it seems very candid. The background clutter and audience are very distracting. Maybe getting a lower perspective with the snowball nearer to the camera looking up towards the girls furprised face would be so much better. Even having her face slightly out of focus with the emphasis on the flame in her hands. This is only my opinion but I thought I would try to help you.


It was definitely candid, and a difficult shot at that since I didn't want to get in the girls' way - it was their event, not mine. I had to stand on a bench and hold the camera above my head. Posing wasn't an option.

Edited to correct an egregious grammatical error.

Message edited by author 2006-08-21 00:29:35.
08/21/2006 12:28:29 AM · #7
Originally posted by mk:

Selective desaturation is often very gimmicky and seems to be used when a better depth of field wasn't achieved. That's the entry's biggest problem for me, in addition to the lack of prominence that Bear stated.


what she said
08/21/2006 12:28:36 AM · #8
just be glad you didn't burn the shell of a bug for the challenge. You would really have been hating it. :-)

Message edited by author 2006-08-21 00:28:49.
08/21/2006 12:31:26 AM · #9
You even classified it yourself: it's a candid, a snapshot, really. You processed it to make the most of it, and did a good job, but it remains a snapshot. The fire is only a small element in the photo. The desat only helps it a bit, but really only saves it from being a pure snapshot.
08/21/2006 12:31:52 AM · #10
I didn't have time to vote this week...but I probably would have given it a 6. I really like the expression on her face, and the "burning snowball" idea is pretty cool.

However, I am not a fan of the selective desat in this case. I also think there was a bit too much going on in the image, with the flame being a bit too small in the frame.

I glanced through some of the images from the challenge...there were some really excellent images, some better and some worse then yours that placed above you.
08/21/2006 12:32:39 AM · #11
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

The composition is lackluster. The fire element is nowhere near prominent enough for this particular challenge. The partial desat looks a little precious to me. It just seems a fairly run-of-the-mill image to me, and there are a LOT of spectacular images in this challenge, so...

Robt.


I would hesitate to say "a lot", and well shot is often killed by lack of originality. The number of disembodied flames and endless repetition of match after match after match that quite unbelieveably scored higher is evidence enough of that for me. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.
08/21/2006 12:33:26 AM · #12
Originally posted by Bugzeye:

just be glad you didn't burn the shell of a bug for the challenge. You would really have been hating it. :-)

Or set some playing cards on fire.
08/21/2006 12:35:17 AM · #13
Originally posted by karmabreeze:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

The composition is lackluster. The fire element is nowhere near prominent enough for this particular challenge. The partial desat looks a little precious to me. It just seems a fairly run-of-the-mill image to me, and there are a LOT of spectacular images in this challenge, so...

Robt.


I would hesitate to say "a lot", and well shot is often killed by lack of originality. The number of disembodied flames and endless repetition of match after match after match that quite unbelieveably scored higher is evidence enough of that for me. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.


I didn't say "better", I said "spectacular". I'm sure you'd agree with me that the voters, as a group, tend to love the more spectacular images, the bright, clean, aggressive ones?

Robt.
08/21/2006 12:36:33 AM · #14
I would give it probably a 5...there's just nothing photographically spectacular about the photo. It's not greatly composed, it's not a super interesting subject or anything like that.

It's a great candid and probably deserves its place in a newspaper or something like that because there's obviously a story to tell behind it.

edit to add: sometimes the hardest shots to get...or the ones where you need some type of special access to get into mean more to the photographer than they do to the viewer. I think that's simply the case here.

Message edited by author 2006-08-21 00:37:33.
08/21/2006 12:39:23 AM · #15
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by karmabreeze:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

The composition is lackluster. The fire element is nowhere near prominent enough for this particular challenge. The partial desat looks a little precious to me. It just seems a fairly run-of-the-mill image to me, and there are a LOT of spectacular images in this challenge, so...

Robt.


I would hesitate to say "a lot", and well shot is often killed by lack of originality. The number of disembodied flames and endless repetition of match after match after match that quite unbelieveably scored higher is evidence enough of that for me. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.


I didn't say "better", I said "spectacular". I'm sure you'd agree with me that the voters, as a group, tend to love the more spectacular images, the bright, clean, aggressive ones?

Robt.


I like spectacular myself. And yet, I had to dig way down to 38th place before I found a single disembodied flame when ordered by my vote. All of my picks did something original and managed a good photo of it at the same time. And that was what made a spectacular photo in this challenge. In my opinion.
08/21/2006 12:39:59 AM · #16
Selective desaturation is going to get hammered unless the shot is incredible and it screams for it. Often selective desaturation is seen as a gimic used by less than experienced photographers.

I shoot a lot of photojournalistic stuff...trust me...people cannot know how difficult or easy a shot was to take. Photos have to stand on their own composition and quality..difficulty of execution very seldom if ever wins points.

There were lots of other mistakes that made people feel the shot was not well thought out. The heads of the spectators were cut in half, The fire was not prominent, the desaturation effect caused an funny blurring around the girl, and unfortunately like all photo-journal stuff...the main girl is sorta ordinary looking.

Remember, DPC is mainly a stock photo style site....as little as people may like it or accept it, you really have to keep to that when shooting..even when doing photojournal style stuff.

Message edited by author 2006-08-21 00:41:42.
08/21/2006 12:41:31 AM · #17
Should have grunged it :P
08/21/2006 12:42:53 AM · #18
Well, since you ask.... To be brutally frank, the desat, the reddish hair, the pale skin, and the chartreuse shirt on the girl just don't go well together -- they kill each other colorwise. As someone said above, the flame just isn't strong enough for this challenge. IMNSHO, for this challenge, you might have done better to do the whole thing in b&w, or everything in b&w except the flame, or maybe just zoomed in on her hands and the snowball. But for a candid for a Scout brochure or Scout publicity, I this shot would be really good.

FWIW, if I were voting this for the challenge (I didn't enter and I didn't vote), I would have given in about a 5.
08/21/2006 12:44:05 AM · #19
Originally posted by karmabreeze:



I like spectacular myself. And yet, I had to dig way down to 38th place before I found a single disembodied flame when ordered by my vote. All of my picks did something original and managed a good photo of it at the same time. And that was what made a spectacular photo in this challenge. In my opinion.


Your problem is that you wish the voters to conform to you, instead of you conforming to the voters. It's a common mistake. It's not going to happen. You will, eventually, decide to either:

A) Start submitting photographs that appeal to the masses in order to get the scores you crave

B) Decide that scores don't really matter and just submit what you like, get that small exposure for your work, and work on bettering yourself apart from DPC

or...

C) Eventually get so pissed off that nobody understands you and your work that you quit in a forum drama huff.. either to eventually come back a changed person (sometimes).. or never be heard from again.

It's your call, really, but the truth of the matter is.. Images here get scored where they generally deserve to get scored as pertains to DPC and the mob that are the voters. Every once in a while, threads get started to celebrate images that might have been overlooked, but it never changes anything.. and it never will.

Message edited by author 2006-08-21 00:47:16.
08/21/2006 12:45:58 AM · #20
You were in a no-win situation here. I thought the de-sat was too gimmicky. But on viewing the original, I can see why you had to de-sat - otherwise the 'Fuelled by Chocolate' t-shirt would have dominated the shot, and the background becomes very distracting.

DPC-style would have had the snowball on it's on on a black background!
08/21/2006 12:48:22 AM · #21
Originally posted by karmabreeze:

All of my picks did something original and managed a good photo of it at the same time. And that was what made a spectacular photo in this challenge. In my opinion.


See, that's the power of the masses that's coming into play there. Everyone thinks a little bit differently than everyone else. In the end, when you're getting such a high number of votes from such a high number of people, the stats simply can't be wrong.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and everyone's entitled to place their vote. Unfortunately, for most, majority always wins.
08/21/2006 12:52:16 AM · #22
Originally posted by Artyste:

Your problem is that you wish the voters to conform to you, instead of you conforming to the voters. It's a common mistake. It's not going to happen. You will, eventually, decide to either:

A) Start submitting photographs that appeal to the masses in order to the scores you crave

B) Decide that scores don't really matter and just submit what you like, get that small exposure for your work, and work on bettering yourself apart from DPC

or...

C) Eventually get so pissed off that nobody understands you and your work that you quit in a forum drama huff.. either to eventually come back a changed person (sometimes).. or never be heard from again.

It's your call, really, but the truth of the matter is.. Images here get scored where they generally deserve to get scored as pertains to DPC and the mob that are the voters. Every once in a while, threads get started to celebrate images that might have been overlooked, but it never changes anything.. and it never will.


So. Tell me how you really feel.

Seriously, I didn't get a single comment that warranted the score until I asked. I can't respect an opinion if I don't know where it's coming from. If I'd let it lie, then no one would have ever said anything about it. And when I did ask, I was told. Such is learning.

Other than these last two challenges, I've been pretty good about accurately predicting my score and, for that matter, which entry would win the challenge. Fire has me completely baffled, and I said so. Sue me.
08/21/2006 01:00:16 AM · #23
Originally posted by karmabreeze:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Your problem is that you wish the voters to conform to you, instead of you conforming to the voters. It's a common mistake. It's not going to happen. You will, eventually, decide to either:

A) Start submitting photographs that appeal to the masses in order to the scores you crave

B) Decide that scores don't really matter and just submit what you like, get that small exposure for your work, and work on bettering yourself apart from DPC

or...

C) Eventually get so pissed off that nobody understands you and your work that you quit in a forum drama huff.. either to eventually come back a changed person (sometimes).. or never be heard from again.

It's your call, really, but the truth of the matter is.. Images here get scored where they generally deserve to get scored as pertains to DPC and the mob that are the voters. Every once in a while, threads get started to celebrate images that might have been overlooked, but it never changes anything.. and it never will.


So. Tell me how you really feel.

Seriously, I didn't get a single comment that warranted the score until I asked. I can't respect an opinion if I don't know where it's coming from. If I'd let it lie, then no one would have ever said anything about it. And when I did ask, I was told. Such is learning.

Other than these last two challenges, I've been pretty good about accurately predicting my score and, for that matter, which entry would win the challenge. Fire has me completely baffled, and I said so. Sue me.


And when you get opinions, you still act all surprised. Your response to Bear's post as an example. DPC is about paying attention to what does well, and emulating it. There are also positive examples of *how* to post a "why didn't this shot do so well", without making it seem like you're the victim of some mass conspiracy against your photo.

We all have photographs that have completely shocked us. Trust me. EVERYONE has them.. Just next time, take the lump and simply ask, "What's wrong here?", listen to the replies, and try to work forward from that.

Starting a thread like this.. which seems to *only* have been made to say, "look, you people suck and are wrong!", is never the way to go

To be totally fair, however, you *do* state that you want critiques in order to learn, but the tone of your OP is really aggressive, as is the response to Bear. This is what I mean with the last paragraph.

Message edited by author 2006-08-21 01:04:20.
08/21/2006 01:01:03 AM · #24
the way i see it is that the majority of the photo is a person and her reaction to a tiny ball of fire. For the voters to really be interested here it has to hit them in the face. When you take a photo try and take it so the person viewing it doesnt want to immediately go onto the next one. Make them stop and say wow! sorry this one doesnt do that at all
08/21/2006 01:01:38 AM · #25
I woudln't stress about it Karma. I tossed you a comment, despite my lack of vote, sometimes the voters go a different route than I'd expect, sometimes it walks a straight line to where you expect it. Such is the nature of the beast.

Don't let it frustrate you too much.
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