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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> What SLR gear would i need to match this camera?
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09/04/2006 10:05:32 PM · #1
If i were to get an SLR setup to match the canon S3 specs

Its 36-432mm F2.7(w) F3.5(t) with 0-3.9" super macro and 3.9"- 1.6' in macro mode.

Would i need a few lenses to cover this distance for zoom and still have the macro and super macro capabilities?

Maybe start with the RebelXT and what lenses?
09/04/2006 10:07:42 PM · #2
i am pretty certain you would need more than one lens. But you'll have to ask the canon folks which glass to get.
09/04/2006 10:12:21 PM · #3
and you'll need lens with IS, since your S3 has IS.
09/04/2006 10:24:00 PM · #4
Originally posted by BowerR64:

If i were to get an SLR setup to match the canon S3 specs

Its 36-432mm F2.7(w) F3.5(t) with 0-3.9" super macro and 3.9"- 1.6' in macro mode.

Would i need a few lenses to cover this distance for zoom and still have the macro and super macro capabilities?

Maybe start with the RebelXT and what lenses?


No idea if/what the conversion factor is on a p&s, but the basic question seems to be covering macro and telephoto.

The macro will run you 500-600 bucks. Canon 100mm, Sigma 105mm, and the Tamron are all popular.

36mm-432mm is a lot of range to cover. You can grab a relatively cheap lense like the tamron 28-300 to do most of it, but for a few hundred bucks you are going to get the image quality you pay for.

If you have the dough, most people would probably go 24-70, 70-200, and then some monster telephoto(s) to reach out beyond that.
09/04/2006 10:40:45 PM · #5
yeah the tamron 28-300 is a ok lens for the price I picked up mine for $289 but it really loses quality when you zoom out to 300mm I am starting to look for a new every day lens.
09/04/2006 10:41:30 PM · #6
Originally posted by routerguy666:

No idea if/what the conversion factor is on a p&s, but the basic question seems to be covering macro and telephoto.


The 36-432 figure is already converted (it's the 35mm film equivalent).

The S3 is a really nice P&S and in many respects can't be matched with a DSLR at any cost -- you can't match the lens, you can't match the weight, and you won't find a movie mode or that dandy flip-out LCD screen. But it is the flexibility of the single lens that can't be beat with a DSLR, not the quality.
09/04/2006 11:01:03 PM · #7
Originally posted by talmy:

Originally posted by routerguy666:

No idea if/what the conversion factor is on a p&s, but the basic question seems to be covering macro and telephoto.


The 36-432 figure is already converted (it's the 35mm film equivalent).

The S3 is a really nice P&S and in many respects can't be matched with a DSLR at any cost -- you can't match the lens, you can't match the weight, and you won't find a movie mode or that dandy flip-out LCD screen. But it is the flexibility of the single lens that can't be beat with a DSLR, not the quality.


yet, it can't even begin to match an SLR for bokeh and shallow DOF.

An 18-70 and a 70-300 would give you from 28.8mm to 450mm. If you get the Sigma 70-300 APO DG or Tamron 70-300 Di LD, then they have Macro. Poof. It's not like the S3 does 1:1 macro here. You won't beat the DEEP macro DOF of the S3 on any SLR, even more so at full frame sensors of the 5d.

edit - Get the Sony A100 or the new Pentax if you want built-in IS on every lens. Possibly the new Panasonic 4/3 system, top-o-the-line leica lenses with OIS on every lens. The A100\s high-ISO performance is lackluster in the DLSR world, but it beats your S3 in that category hands down. I don't have info on the Pentax or Panasonic ISO performance.

Message edited by author 2006-09-04 23:05:28.
09/04/2006 11:22:08 PM · #8
For someone who wants IS, the best investment might be one of the Nikons and the 18-200 VR (if you can get one). The D50 or D80 will do the trick nicely with that, depending on budget.

This is a very well respected lens, and it will give you one important thing besides IS. A good range with a single lens from wide to telephoto.

It's not going to fit in your jacket pocket though!

Or as someone said, look at the Sony Alpha if you want to be able to use "budget" lenses and still get IS capabilities.

For what it's worth, you can keep travel weight down with the Canon's as well since the XT is smaller. I carry three lenses with me now: the Canon EF-S 10-22, the Sigma 18-125, and the Canon 70-300 IS DO (compact telephoto). That's $2000 worth of lenses though--and none are "L" lenses, but they all seem to me to be of high quality. I'd still like to get down to one lens for hiking/bike riding, and I'd like IS, hence my own interest in the Nikons and Sony.

Message edited by author 2006-09-04 23:22:32.
09/05/2006 01:20:34 AM · #9
First, to answer the original question, I agree the the Sony Alpha would be the cheapest route to what you want. I've heard that Pentax also has some models in the works with IS built into the body.

In Canon, to get IS and be in or better than those aperture ranges, you'd have to get the new Canon 17-50mm f/2.8 IS, 70-200mm f/2.8 IS, and a 300mm f/2.8 IS. That leaves some obvious holes; 50-70mm (a 3rd party 1.4x teleconverter on 17-50, bumps to 70mm @ f/4 max), 200-300mm (again a good 1.4x teleconverter on the 70-200 = gets you to 280mm @ f/4 max). With the 1.6x crop factor on the Rebel XT, that would be a range of 27.2-448mm with the first two lenses and a good 1.4x teleconverter. The bad news is that those two lenses alone will set you back about $2700. I got my Sigma 105mm Macro on ebay for $200+ship.

So, the S3 is a SUPER deal! Apples and Oranges. I think the S3 is an excellent P&S, but there is more at stake than focal length in the difference in going to an SLR.

I also like to have IS as a tool, but sometimes it's not the right tool. If you are trying to shoot any action in low light, IS will not give you a clear picture. I bought my Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS lens to shoot indoor weddings when flash is not allowed, but it only helps for those shots of the couple sitting still looking blissful during the cermony. You get them moving down the aisle and without higher shutter speed and flash, it's all a blur.

To get fast shutter speeds you need lenses with large maximum apertures to let more light in (mostly very expensive), or higher ISO sensitivity in-camera (which increases the noise levels) or both. The larger sensors in D-SLRs have far less noise than the smaller sensors in practically every P&S. So much so, that I have been able to use the ISO 1600 setting on wedding pictures with a little Neat Image noise removal that people are happy to pay for.

I also never felt like I suffered from shutter lag until I got my first D-SLR. Now it is very noticeable in every P&S I pick up. That is getting better in high-end models like the S3, but that speed is also combined with better and faster focusing mechanisms in D-SLRs, so when getting the exact shot (or as close to it as you can) that you want is critical, a D-SLR is the only option.

Sheesh, what a blowhard I turned out to be! I'm surprised noone beat me to the punch on this site though :)
09/05/2006 01:53:16 AM · #10
I own the same gear as you know.

there are things that I can do with the S2 that I can't do with the 30D, but not many.

The IS is nice, but I can use ISO 1600 on my 30D, but only ISO 200 on my S2.

I still think that IS will give some additional benefit if used properly.

The biggest thing to note that is different though is the fact that the lens on the S2/S3 is nowhere near as sharp as you can get from a DSLR setup. I'm talking about real sharpness from the lens and not sharpness from the sharpening in camera.

I find a lot of in-camera images are oversharpened or are very close to being oversharpened with my S2 and that's with sharpening set to 0.

On the other hand, I can get some pretty sharp results from a DSLR with the sharpening set to the lowest, perhaps even at -1.

Another thing that is really nice about the Canon big zoom cam is that it has a relatively fast lens compared to some of the other brands. This is really, really nice. I personally like fast glass. A lot.

Regarding the camera body that you choose, there are a few choices. If you live in an area where there is good availability for second hand pentax lenses, that is probably going to end up being a better choice. The sony system isn't bad either, but I get a feeling that the K100D is going to outperform it in a few small details.

the lens kit that I recommend would be appropriate for Pentax, Sony or Canon.

Canon has high ISO noise performance that is good enough to counteract the Image Stabilization advantages from Pentax/Sony.

I almost went with a Konica Minolta myself, but I decided that I'd rather have freedom in the ISO with no Stabilization than Stabilization and poor high ISO performance. That choice would be yours to make.

My recommended lens kit would be:

Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 or Tokina 16-50 f/2.8
50mm f/1.4 (canon - or f/1.8 for the other brands - I'm not a fan of the canon f/1.8)
Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 or equivalent pro grade lens.

ALTERNATIVELY, there is also a very nice lens out right now by Tokina that is the 80-400 f/4-5.6 (?). I hear that it is very sharp and it covers a very nice range that will outperform your S3 quite easily.

If the Sigma D14 is cheap, I will probably consider personally picking that up as a second body... I just hope they offer a choice of mounts... that plus my 80-200 f/2.8L would be.... might have to wait for some more photographic income though.
09/05/2006 11:49:12 AM · #11
Thanks for all the replys, i think i need to keep saving. I didnt realize it was going to cost so much. I dont even have the body yet but thought ide start searching and pricing.

Originally posted by eschelar:


I find a lot of in-camera images are oversharpened or are very close to being oversharpened with my S2 and that's with sharpening set to 0.


Where is that setting? can i move it to -1 or somthing? im not aware of that setting.
09/06/2006 01:38:08 AM · #12
I think it's in the function menu. Don't use the AUTO mode.

Set to P, Av, Tv or M, you should have either in the menu of the function an option to change the sharpness, contrast and saturation.

bring them down a bit if you want to have more control in post processing. If you don't use layers or advanced techniques for boosting these photographic qualities, this is probably of limited usefulness. A straight USM is only a little better than the in-camera sharpening. IMHO.

My highest scoring images so far were taken with the S2 IS.

The 400XTi looks like it will be an excellent choice and it will probably come down a hundred bucks after 3 months. Plan on spending around 700-750 on the body, and double that on the lenses.

The results aren't always worth it, but when it counts, it really shows.
09/06/2006 01:02:07 PM · #13
I see it now but its just -1 0 or +1

That will soften up the image a little?
09/06/2006 01:05:40 PM · #14
aperture settings for P&S's are deceptive, they are not a 1:1 factor to SLR lenes. In fact P&S aperture settings, if converted to equivalent SLR lens settings are much much smaller. This is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to achieve good DOF results with a P&S, they tend to like to keep everything in nice sharp focus.
09/06/2006 01:22:10 PM · #15
Originally posted by abroken1:

In Canon, to get IS and be in or better than those aperture ranges, you'd have to get the new Canon 17-50mm f/2.8 IS, 70-200mm f/2.8 IS, and a 300mm f/2.8 IS.


Not really. A Canon 17-85 IS and 70-300 IS would get you there with good image quality for a lot less money.
09/06/2006 04:02:17 PM · #16
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by abroken1:

In Canon, to get IS and be in or better than those aperture ranges, you'd have to get the new Canon 17-50mm f/2.8 IS, 70-200mm f/2.8 IS, and a 300mm f/2.8 IS.


Not really. A Canon 17-85 IS and 70-300 IS would get you there with good image quality for a lot less money.


You can get some decent DOF with P&S camers if you work it a little.

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Message edited by author 2006-09-06 16:02:35.
09/06/2006 04:14:18 PM · #17
24-70 F/2.8 and the 70-200 F/2.8 with a 1.4x teleconverter. The IS option is up to you. Canon has a 24-105 F/4 IS and the 70-200 F2.8 IS. The 1.4x teleconverter will get you out to 448mm on a 1.6x crop. Your also looking at $3000+ bill for those lenses.

Message edited by author 2006-09-06 16:16:03.
09/06/2006 04:41:44 PM · #18
Originally posted by BowerR64:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by abroken1:

In Canon, to get IS and be in or better than those aperture ranges, you'd have to get the new Canon 17-50mm f/2.8 IS, 70-200mm f/2.8 IS, and a 300mm f/2.8 IS.


Not really. A Canon 17-85 IS and 70-300 IS would get you there with good image quality for a lot less money.


You can get some decent DOF with P&S camers if you work it a little.



Its not impossible of course. I only have experience with my own P&S, a Powershot A70, so maybe there are other P&S that are better at it. But one thing I can say for certain about my A70, if I wanted a nice DOF and an out of focus background, I had to make sure I was really close to the subject, it was nigh impossible to achieve the same effect if I had some distance, even zooming in.
09/06/2006 05:02:07 PM · #19
The 28-300 AF Tamron that I have messed with is also very SLOW to focus. (I sure love those USMs by Canon!) and yes, the extreme zooms on it had quality suffering. Didn't test it thoroughly so I don't know if it just got soft or if it was camera shake.

Originally posted by Bugzeye:

yeah the tamron 28-300 is a ok lens for the price I picked up mine for $289 but it really loses quality when you zoom out to 300mm I am starting to look for a new every day lens.
09/06/2006 08:53:17 PM · #20
Originally posted by modurn:

Originally posted by BowerR64:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by abroken1:

In Canon, to get IS and be in or better than those aperture ranges, you'd have to get the new Canon 17-50mm f/2.8 IS, 70-200mm f/2.8 IS, and a 300mm f/2.8 IS.


Not really. A Canon 17-85 IS and 70-300 IS would get you there with good image quality for a lot less money.


You can get some decent DOF with P&S camers if you work it a little.



Its not impossible of course. I only have experience with my own P&S, a Powershot A70, so maybe there are other P&S that are better at it. But one thing I can say for certain about my A70, if I wanted a nice DOF and an out of focus background, I had to make sure I was really close to the subject, it was nigh impossible to achieve the same effect if I had some distance, even zooming in.


Yeah i was fairly close (macro) its set to work about 2feet lol
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