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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Question about HDR and DQ'd Procrastination image
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01/15/2007 06:37:07 PM · #1
I posted this on a different thread but that thread was locked (other thread)...I don't get why because I asked a legit question IMHO and I don't think the thread was degenerating...maybe off topic? I just need to understand what is allowed and exactly why the image was DQ'd. I don't want to make the same mistake. I am sorry for my ignorance. I am trying to learn.

Ok, so help me here, please...

I just want to make sure I understand this:

If I open a single RAW file in Photomatix, it generates a pseudo-HDR image which I then do some tone mapping on that image.

This is legal in Advanced but not basic? Why is it not allowed in basic rules?

I just want to understand what exactly is allowed and I am still learning pp and not sure what is ok and what is not...I have the general idea but I don't really know how to use most features in PS.

Basically the DQ'd image actually used 3 DIFFERENT images instead of 3 different exposure levels from ONE RAW file?

Edit to say thank you to ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' silverscreen for your help.

Message edited by author 2007-01-15 18:38:21.
01/15/2007 06:48:52 PM · #2
I think the only reason the thread was locked was because it was an administrator announcement thread, so it'll keep appearing in the threads list highlighted in green everytime someone bumps it.
01/15/2007 06:50:11 PM · #3
One one exposure (camera press) taken with a camera is allowed in basic. Multiply exposures are not allowed unless it is somehow done in camera (Nikon D200 - I believe has this feature)
01/15/2007 06:53:52 PM · #4
Originally posted by faidoi:

Multiply exposures are not allowed unless it is somehow done in camera (Nikon D200 - I believe has this feature)

This is now not legal in neither Basic nor Advanced.
01/15/2007 06:55:40 PM · #5
Originally posted by slickchik:

If I open a single RAW file in Photomatix, it generates a pseudo-HDR image which I then do some tone mapping on that image.

This is legal in Advanced but not basic? Why is it not allowed in basic rules?

Because Basic editing is restrictive in the tools you can use, including filters and layers - which is what HDR from a single RAW requires.

Originally posted by slickchik:

Basically the DQ'd image actually used 3 DIFFERENT images instead of 3 different exposure levels from ONE RAW file?

Yes, 3 different shots, not 3 different runs from the same RAW, hence the DQ.

Message edited by author 2007-01-15 18:56:35.
01/15/2007 06:58:41 PM · #6
Originally posted by Manic:

Originally posted by faidoi:

Multiply exposures are not allowed unless it is somehow done in camera (Nikon D200 - I believe has this feature)

This is now not legal in neither Basic nor Advanced.


Damn I should of tried it before it got banned >.<
01/15/2007 06:59:28 PM · #7
slikchik, your question was indeed a valid one, and wasn't necessarily the reason the thread was locked. It was locked because it was an admin announcement thread that was spiraling into yet another discussion about whether HDR should be allowed or not. As a matter of fact, I started to lock the thread sooner, but wanted your question to be answered to some degree.

Another thing that might help is do a forum search for HDR. There are several threads already in existence.
01/15/2007 07:00:21 PM · #8
Hopfully I can clarify how we are currently interpreting HDR and tonemapping with respect to the rules:

Basic Rules: you can tonemap using a single development of a single RAW exposure, or load a single RAW file directly in a program such as Photomatix and tonemap, saving as a single output file. You may not use multiple conversions of a single RAW file, since such a process uses layers.

Advanced Rules: You can convert a single RAW file multiple times, and then process as an HDRI file and tonemap the result. You must start with one exposure, because Advanced rules allow only a single source image.

Expert Rules: You may shoot multiple exposures and combine to HDRI using any program of your choosing. No restrictions on number of originals or on processing.

01/15/2007 07:01:43 PM · #9
Originally posted by karmat:

slikchik, your question was indeed a valid one, and wasn't necessarily the reason the thread was locked. It was locked because it was an admin announcement thread that was spiraling into yet another discussion about whether HDR should be allowed or not. As a matter of fact, I started to lock the thread sooner, but wanted your question to be answered to some degree.

Another thing that might help is do a forum search for HDR. There are several threads already in existence.


Thanks, Karmat, I have done quite a bit of reading on the other threads about HDR. I just wanted to make sure that I was understanding what was being discussed.

Kirbic...just what I was looking for...Thanks!
01/15/2007 07:10:49 PM · #10
I still think Basic Editing should just be ditched. The only thing different I can tell from Advanced is selective editing.

Just my .02 :)
01/15/2007 07:12:15 PM · #11
Originally posted by kirbic:

Hopfully I can clarify how we are currently interpreting HDR and tonemapping with respect to the rules:

Basic Rules: you can tonemap using a single development of a single RAW exposure, or load a single RAW file directly in a program such as Photomatix and tonemap, saving as a single output file. You may not use multiple conversions of a single RAW file, since such a process uses layers.


My only question is that when I load a file into Photomatix, it automatically generates a pseudo HDR image and I do tonemapping on that single generated image. This is ok in basic?

I guess why I am confused is that I just cannot simply "tone map" a RAW file in Photomatix until the program generates an HDR file for me.

01/15/2007 07:22:27 PM · #12
Originally posted by slickchik:


My only question is that when I load a file into Photomatix, it automatically generates a pseudo HDR image and I do tonemapping on that single generated image. This is ok in basic?

I guess why I am confused is that I just cannot simply "tone map" a RAW file in Photomatix until the program generates an HDR file for me.


Yes, this is OK. The HDRI file that Photomatix generates is nothing but a single image with a high "bit depth." The tonemapping step is necessary to be able to display the full dynamic range within the limits of the output device (monitor).
01/15/2007 07:36:45 PM · #13
Thank you, Kirbic!! This helps me a bunch!
01/15/2007 08:01:05 PM · #14
Originally posted by Manic:

Originally posted by faidoi:

Multiply exposures are not allowed unless it is somehow done in camera (Nikon D200 - I believe has this feature)

This is now not legal in neither Basic nor Advanced.


I'm all for that, as seen here, but this was never announced.

When was the decision made/changed?
01/15/2007 08:24:54 PM · #15
Originally posted by chimericvisions:

Originally posted by Manic:

Originally posted by faidoi:

Multiply exposures are not allowed unless it is somehow done in camera (Nikon D200 - I believe has this feature)

This is now not legal in neither Basic nor Advanced.


I'm all for that, as seen here, but this was never announced.

When was the decision made/changed?


exactly .. it's not in the rules so it must be an OPINION
01/15/2007 08:29:49 PM · #16
Originally posted by Manic:

Originally posted by faidoi:

Multiply exposures are not allowed unless it is somehow done in camera (Nikon D200 - I believe has this feature)

This is now not legal in neither Basic nor Advanced.


In-camera multis are not legal anymore? Since when?
01/15/2007 08:29:50 PM · #17
Multiple exposures is not legal "in-camera" anymore? Since when?
01/15/2007 08:31:00 PM · #18
OK urusla, that was just freaky...
01/15/2007 08:31:24 PM · #19
It was. Yikes!
01/15/2007 08:33:16 PM · #20
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Multiple exposures is not legal "in-camera" anymore? Since when?


Ditto!
01/15/2007 08:36:04 PM · #21
AFAIK, there has been no change in the legality of in-camera multiple images (still legal at this time).

Edit: when all are shot within the challenge timeframe.

Message edited by author 2007-01-15 20:36:41.
01/15/2007 08:40:31 PM · #22
Originally posted by kirbic:

AFAIK, there has been no change in the legality of in-camera multiple images (still legal at this time).

Edit: when all are shot within the challenge timeframe.


But...

Originally posted by Manic:

Originally posted by faidoi:

Multiply exposures are not allowed unless it is somehow done in camera (Nikon D200 - I believe has this feature)

This is now not legal in neither Basic nor Advanced.


' . substr('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/smiley7.gif', strrpos('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/smiley7.gif', '/') + 1) . '
01/15/2007 08:40:49 PM · #23
Originally posted by kirbic:

AFAIK, there has been no change in the legality of in-camera multiple images (still legal at this time).

Edit: when all are shot within the challenge timeframe.


Why would you say, "when all are shot within the challenge timeframe"? It makes it sound like you are thinking that overlays are also legal. In-camera multis, unless you shot them right at turnover, would always be withing the challenge timeframe.
01/15/2007 08:47:32 PM · #24
Originally posted by ursula:

Why would you say, "when all are shot within the challenge timeframe"? It makes it sound like you are thinking that overlays are also legal. In-camera multis, unless you shot them right at turnover, would always be withing the challenge timeframe.


There is at least one camera out there that can overlay any two (possibly more?) images, they don't have to be consecutive images, and you don't have to choose that mode prior to shooting. Such an overlay is indistinguishable from an overlay of consecutive shots, since in both cases only one final file is written.
If we determined that someone used an older exposure as one of the shots, it's darn likely that it would be DQ'd.
Things like this were not forseen when the "anything done in-camera is legal" determination was made.
01/15/2007 08:49:45 PM · #25
Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by kirbic:

AFAIK, there has been no change in the legality of in-camera multiple images (still legal at this time).

Edit: when all are shot within the challenge timeframe.


But...

Originally posted by Manic:

Originally posted by faidoi:

Multiply exposures are not allowed unless it is somehow done in camera (Nikon D200 - I believe has this feature)

This is now not legal in neither Basic nor Advanced.


' . substr('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/smiley7.gif', strrpos('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/smiley7.gif', '/') + 1) . '


I believe that Matt was referring to multiple physical exposures in the context of using them for HDR. Definitely *not* legal in Basic or Advanced.
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