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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Black & White Portrait II CRITERIA!!!!!!
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01/17/2007 01:57:58 AM · #1
Hi!

I'm the fool that entered this!

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/614/thumb/447173.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/614/thumb/447173.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

I got some comments.....what I want to know is the exact definition of this:

Challenge Details
Black and White Portrait II
An Exclusive Open Challenge using the Advanced Editing rules.
Description N/A
Extra Rules
Note that this challenge is running under Advanced Editing.

There's no going back now, the votes are cast, I just want some reasonable discussion as to why this entry is not a perfectly fine, albeit odd, entry.

When I told my friend Monroe about this challenge and why I wanted to take his portrait, he thought it was a howl.



01/17/2007 01:59:56 AM · #2
hey, I didn't vote on the entries as I did not have time to go through them all, but I saw this and got it right away. Sorry it didn't go over too well for you. Out of the box stuff generally doesn't score well here.
01/17/2007 02:00:57 AM · #3
Well whats sad is the Fools who didnt get the point.

Message edited by author 2007-01-17 02:01:15.
01/17/2007 02:08:34 AM · #4
i learned my lesson from previous challenges, stick to the subject and keep it as simple as possible, sadly some people just don't like to think to much
01/17/2007 02:08:35 AM · #5
As you know ... I gave it a 10!
01/17/2007 02:09:32 AM · #6
I left a comment. Though just look at the number of comments on there already. Amazing. A victory in itself.
01/17/2007 02:20:51 AM · #7
I too, am sick of the DNMC Nazis and have also been told the challenge states X when it doesn't! For this reason I was tempted to submit an image consisting of 2 colours only, black and white...and give a 1 to every image containing 256 levels of grey....alas I relented figuring it was unfair to the majority of people who are not so quick on the DNMC button.

Well done!
01/17/2007 02:24:20 AM · #8
Originally posted by zaflabout:

I learned my lesson from previous challenges, stick to the subject and keep it as simple as possible, sadly some people just don't like to think too much


I was really incensed for a while but as the comments kept coming and coming.....I started to enjoy it somewhat. I knew that it wouldn't score well, I was fascinated how all over the place the comments, and votes, were!

Maybe I'll enter it in a Free Study....can I do that?

I guess I'd have to see what the challenge criteria are!.....8>)
01/17/2007 02:35:57 AM · #9
IMO, challenges can be roughly divided into two types; creative and technical. I took the technical challenge this time to be to take your best photo in black and white, not a portrait OF black and white.
01/17/2007 02:47:08 AM · #10
Regarding Jeb's wonderful photo, the one of the cityscape and the brown ribbon bowl of nuts and fodder:

okay <snip> you <snip> meanies, listen up. Reminder: some people on this site are:

1. new photographers who may not know even the simple lingo like the definition of 'portrait'
2. people who speak English as a second or even third language. Would you know how to say 'portrait' in their language?
3. young and innocent
4. sensitive to criticism
5. so excited about entering a picture they don't realize the exact requirements

All of them are worthy of gentler comments.

When judging, please remember that your typed words might hurt someone's feelings, causing them to put their camera down and be afraid to pick it up again. Please be careful what you say and how you say it. It's okay to say DNMC if you must say it, but please, don't just harshly criticize or call someone a 'timewaster'. There's no cause for that. People are trying to learn and grow and sprout wings here. Let's help them, not push them into the mud with a growl. Remember a time when you didn't know all the terminology and lingo? (I'm still trying to find out what HDR is...)

And by the way, I've been trying to pay my membership dues so I can start entering challenges but it keeps telling me there's an error. Does anyone know how to get around the error?

Peace, y'all. and remember to be compassionate. You joined this site to learn and grow and be supported. Be that to others please.

Message edited by kirbic - Removed reference to specific user :-).
01/17/2007 03:25:25 AM · #11
Originally posted by kelbelle:

...
And by the way, I've been trying to pay my membership dues so I can start entering challenges but it keeps telling me there's an error. Does anyone know how to get around the error?

Peace, y'all. and remember to be compassionate. You joined this site to learn and grow and be supported. Be that to others please.


Send a message to Support about your membership.....hopefully they'll be able to sort it out for you Kelly

01/17/2007 04:24:16 AM · #12
Originally posted by kelbelle:

okay <snip> you <snip> meanies, listen up. Reminder: some people on this site are:

1. new photographers who may not know even the simple lingo like the definition of 'portrait'
2. people who speak English as a second or even third language. Would you know how to say 'portrait' in their language?
3. young and innocent
4. sensitive to criticism
5. so excited about entering a picture they don't realize the exact requirements

All of them are worthy of gentler comments.

When judging, please remember that your typed words might hurt someone's feelings, causing them to put their camera down and be afraid to pick it up again. Please be careful what you say and how you say it. It's okay to say DNMC if you must say it, but please, don't just harshly criticize or call someone a 'timewaster'. There's no cause for that. People are trying to learn and grow and sprout wings here. Let's help them, not push them into the mud with a growl.

Seemingly reasonable points, but members (new & old) should also remember that when you submit a photo to a challenge, said photo is subject to criticism - harsh or otherwise, potentially rude, insensitive, and if you go outside the mainstream concepts (knowingly or not), you are likely subject to even more of all of the above.

This is just my opinion, but I think it is the responsibility of the submitter to put on some thick skin and take whatever beating you get along with the compliments. Suck it up and let it go. I also think the voters are entitled to their perspective on what meets the challenge and what doesn't, the same way they are entitled to say what gets a 1 and what gets a 10. If you are looking to score high or win ribbons, aim for the masses (and don't complain about them), it you just want to see how many people "get" your unique perspective on the challenge, prepare for DNMC comments and a low score and enjoy the few comments you will undoubtedly get from the few who "get" it or don't care about the challenge topic.

I see so many complaints in the forums asking why people do what they do and the answer is that they are people - a broad spectrum of people. I'm not opposed to posting and discussing an issue, just the idea that others are "wrong" because they have a different view.

I didn't vote the BW challenge, but I looked through the images and saw that one - I "got" it, but it doesn't fit my understanding of the challenge topic, but would have given it an overall 5 because of its exceptional technical quality and interest.

Message edited by kirbic - Edit quote :-).
01/17/2007 04:34:50 AM · #13
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Hi!

I'm the fool that entered this!
(...)
There's no going back now, the votes are cast, I just want some reasonable discussion as to why this entry is not a perfectly fine, albeit odd, entry.


This was definitely a gutsy, but fully right interpretation of the challenge IMHO. Now you have to choose why you enter an image. If it's to get a blue ribbon, well that was for sure a bit too gutsy - ie you would have expected many people to view this as DNMC, at an amount such that it will kill you score.
Now do you have balls or not? ;)

By the way I think the image is very nice, the only thing is I find the lighting a bit too harsh.
01/17/2007 05:04:10 AM · #14
Very impressed that you interpreted the challenge in this manner...

Unfortunately not many ppl can appreciate out of the box pics...
01/17/2007 05:19:20 AM · #15
It's not about appreciating out of the box pics... It just isn't fair for the other challenge participants to give a high rating to a otherwise great pic, but that clearly doesn't belong to that competition. That picture is a metaphoric interpretation of the challenge definition - a black person (which, by the way, has chocolate brown skin...) with a white beard, while you know very well what black and white means... If the definition were "pick two: black, white, brown....etc" it would have been different. I am dissapointed to see some banal shots with barbie girls ranked before some great shots, as number 6 in this comp, for exemple, and others too, but you cannot dismiss them for being banal (unfortunately:)... You have to respect the rules, even if you don't like it. Otherwise, you cannot ask for respect... imho
01/17/2007 05:24:51 AM · #16
We all have our own opinions ... and myself ... I gave this a 10. I am not saying he was right to enter this image. I am not saying that I was right to give it a 10. I am only saying that is what happened and I expressed my opinion.

OK ... I admit ... If this was not so obviously out of the box, I probably would have given it only a 9.

... and? You think that would have made a lot of difference?

Just for the record ... I am a WASP. Just in case you wondered.

I just think it is a FANTASTIC image with amazing clarity and DOF and EVERY dayam thing! ... and ok ... 1 point extra for out of the box.

Message edited by author 2007-01-17 05:29:55.
01/17/2007 05:31:49 AM · #17
Originally posted by holiday:

It's not about appreciating out of the box pics... It just isn't fair for the other challenge participants to give a high rating to a otherwise great pic, but that clearly doesn't belong to that competition. That picture is a metaphoric interpretation of the challenge definition - a black person (which, by the way, has chocolate brown skin...) with a white beard, while you know very well what black and white means... If the definition were "pick two: black, white, brown....etc" it would have been different. I am dissapointed to see some banal shots with barbie girls ranked before some great shots, as number 6 in this comp, for exemple, and others too, but you cannot dismiss them for being banal (unfortunately:)... You have to respect the rules, even if you don't like it. Otherwise, you cannot ask for respect... imho

Sorry, but this challenge does not have a definition -- just a title. Each and every one of us is entitled to supply our own definition. A definition based on his metaphoric interpretation of the challenge title is just as valid as any other. The rules were respected.

David
01/17/2007 05:36:12 AM · #18
I checked for the description of this challenge and only saw N/A in the box!

Edited to change say to saw ... typo ...

Message edited by author 2007-01-17 05:38:32.
01/17/2007 05:39:04 AM · #19
the title is the definition and of course you know it...

originally posted by david.c: Each and every one of us is entitled to supply our own definition.

really?! maybe it doesn't even have to be a portrait, cause I have seen some lanscapes too:)
01/17/2007 06:20:04 AM · #20
I did 'get' it but still scored it low (a 4 I think which is not that bad). I was not rude enough to leave a DNMC comment though. Being on this site for photographers, you should know what a B+W pic is. And your submission wasn't. Irrespective of how clever and out-of-the-box it was, it strictly did not meet the challenge. I think the voters clearly gave you this message. Like other commenters I try to stick to the KISS principle (Keep it Simple Stupid). Where I haven't done that, I have been punished too.
01/17/2007 06:42:00 AM · #21
Yes, being a photographer you should know what a black and white picture is. However, that was not what this challenge asked for. This challenge was just called "black and white".
01/17/2007 06:52:59 AM · #22
98% of those taking part did understand the challenge correctly, and as we have seen, so did 98% of voters.
01/17/2007 07:20:18 AM · #23
The problem is folks here just can't think outside the box like you obviously can. It's too bad really that they can't be creative and thus vote images down because they don't meet their somehow strict impression of a challenge discription.

I voted your entry a 5 not because I felt it didn't meet the challenge, but because it could have used some improvement, perhaps a bit of flash to bring out the features of his face more such as his eyes.

01/17/2007 07:27:35 AM · #24
out of the box doesn't mean out of the competition. it's true that wonderful out of the box images scored way lower than boring shots, but it's not the case with this image. this image is not out of the box. actually, it's quite a regular portrait. being gutsy doesn't mean posting shots that in other competition (for exemple, color portrait) would be considered banal, but posting original pictures within the theme of the competition
01/17/2007 07:30:13 AM · #25
Originally posted by holiday:

the title is the definition and of course you know it...

originally posted by david.c: Each and every one of us is entitled to supply our own definition.

really?! maybe it doesn't even have to be a portrait, cause I have seen some lanscapes too:)

The title is the definition? No, can't say I know that. I do know that too many repetitions of similar challenge topics and they become stale. Too many see the challenge topic (Black and White) and think greyscale -- that's not what it says. That doesn't put creativity in a box, it flattens at the bottom of a rut. To combat this D&L started implementing challenges with no description -- for the exact purpose of shackling the DNMC zealots. This encourages the photographers to do what the purpose of this site is -- to exand and stop thinking and doing everything the same way all the time.

I think it was too long in the coming -- a status-quo was established, and the site became it's own box.

I know something else as well. One thing I can say with certainty -- Jeb 'got' the intent of the challenge and the spirit of the site.

David
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