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01/17/2007 07:44:03 AM · #1
OK, so now we've got a few K10D users on here I'd be interested in any feedback on what folks think of the camera. Is it worth moving from my *ist DL to the K10D? Is it really up there in the same league as the Canon 30D etc as is being suggested?

Also, one of the kit lenses being offered with the body here in Oz is a Pentax 16-45 f/4.0. On paper it seems like nice glass and the price of the kit with this lens is considerably more than with a Sigma lens, which suggests it's reasonably quality. Anybody own the 16-45 or know anything about it?

Cheers,
Q.
01/17/2007 09:52:58 AM · #2
Bump as I head off to bed. :)
01/17/2007 02:53:51 PM · #3
Haven't used the *ist, no experience the with the 16-45 or the 30D.

But I love my camera...

If you're thinking of the K10D + DA 16-45, you may want to hold off a bit on the lens and put the money towards the new DA* 16-50 mm F2.8 ED AL SSM [IF] (look at all those abbreviations! It must be good...), which is due in the next couple months. It won't be cheap, but it'll be weather sealed to match the K10D body.
01/17/2007 03:03:49 PM · #4
You can't go wrong with the K10D. It's very user friendly. I still haven't played with all the options, but what I have used has been nice. Mostly, any change you want to make, there is a button for it. No more searching the menus. The one I like is the focus button on the back. No more accidental exposures when trying to see how something looks. And there is a remote sensor on the back that works nicely. I got the battery grip with mine, and it's a beast. A lot heavier than my DS was, that's for sure. But so far I really like it.

As for the lens, I can't advise on that since I don't own it. But I agree with ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' option, wait and take a look at the DA* 16-50 mm F2.8 ED AL SSM [IF].
01/17/2007 03:08:54 PM · #5
Originally posted by Marc923:

You can't go wrong with the K10D. It's very user friendly. I still haven't played with all the options, but what I have used has been nice. Mostly, any change you want to make, there is a button for it. No more searching the menus. The one I like is the focus button on the back. No more accidental exposures when trying to see how something looks. And there is a remote sensor on the back that works nicely. I got the battery grip with mine, and it's a beast. A lot heavier than my DS was, that's for sure. But so far I really like it.

As for the lens, I can't advise on that since I don't own it. But I agree with ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' option, wait and take a look at the DA* 16-50 mm F2.8 ED AL SSM [IF].


Hi Marc, have you noticed any softness in focus around the edges. This was one thing that was mentioned in a couple of reviews of the K10D, this was also what made me hang back from buying one. Although I'm showing the K100D, it is not bought yet, possibly this Saturday, so there is still time to reconsider the K10D.

Steve
01/17/2007 03:30:23 PM · #6
Originally posted by sodoff:

have you noticed any softness in focus around the edges.


In focus? No. In sharpness? Yes, but there are 3 ways around this:

1) Shoot RAW
2) Natural (default) jpegs retain alot of texture at the expense of edge sharpness. They are well suited to PP and sharpen admirably.
3) If you must have out of camera sharp jpegs, switch to bright mode and turn up the sharpness a bit.
01/17/2007 03:33:56 PM · #7
Originally posted by option:

Originally posted by sodoff:

have you noticed any softness in focus around the edges.


In focus? No. In sharpness? Yes, but there are 3 ways around this:

1) Shoot RAW
2) Natural (default) jpegs retain alot of texture at the expense of edge sharpness. They are well suited to PP and sharpen admirably.
3) If you must have out of camera sharp jpegs, switch to bright mode and turn up the sharpness a bit.


Thanks, I meant sharpness but my fingers got ahead of my brain, which isn't hard these days! I may have to have a serious think over the next couple of days, as I am drawn by water and dust sealing, also self cleaning sensor etc.
01/17/2007 03:42:18 PM · #8
Hey Steve, again I'm with ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Option and agree with his suggestions. I haven't done anything real serious yet, just playing with it, so I haven't noticed anything drastic.

If money is not a problem, go with the K10D. I almost bought the K100D, but opted to hold out for the K10D.

Message edited by author 2007-01-17 15:44:12.
01/17/2007 04:46:16 PM · #9
I had a *ist DS and currently own a K100D and K10D. The K10D is my main camera and I use the K100D as a backup for wedding shoots.

I love the new cameras - then again the DS was pretty good. It depends what you are using it for. I have a studio and also shoot weddings so my comments reflect that.

Pluses
Antishake - this is a big one for me, I prefer to shoot in available light if possible and this helps alot - as do my Sigma 28-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 :-D Alot of things at weddings move too quickly for a tripod to be practical. Inbody antishake is a very cost effective way of doing it, you only pay for it once instead of having to buy a big collection of stabilized lenses.

ISO 100 - handy for me at times as it allows opening the lens wider to help put the background out of focus. Susre I could use an ND filter but this is easier.

Lots of external wheels and buttons - makes changing settings MUCH quicker (vs going thru the menus) but if you rarely change your settings its not such a big deal. For me this is another big improvement.

10Mp - sounds good, doesn't make a big difference unless you are printing larger than A3 or crop alot. I have printed 50x75cm portraits (approx A2) from the Ds with bicubic smoother upsizing in photoshop and my customers love them. Doinf this does rely on a sharp, low noise original. 10mp only gives you a one size improvement too....

Weather sealing - good idea but you need a weathersealed lens for maximum benefit, presumably this would keep your sensor less dusty too.

Lithium battery. Lasts well and doesnt go flat in your camera bag (NiMh do) Last time I checked Pentax hadn't released an official spare but its the same as a Minolta NP400. I picked up 2 spare after market batteries and a home/car charger on Ebay for just over $50 AUD and am very happy with that! Then again Sanyo Eneloops are NiMh that keep their charge - $25 @ Dick Smith, I have a couple of sets for my K100D.

Downsides
Cost - not that much more imho and very competitive compared with other brands

Size and weight - I don't mind this, its still not huge and the slightly bigger heavier body actually helps when using big heavy lenses

No ISO 3200 - personally I didn't use this much as you can get a decent image but only if the exposure is spot on. YMMV.

You could sell the DL on Ebay - from memory they are fetching $500 or so with a lens...

Lenses
I don't have expereince with any of these lenses - I am still using the Sigma 18-125 I bought with my DS as a walkaround - its small, light, has a useful range and is reasonably sharp without being stunning. I know I would take the 18-55 off often enough to be annoying.

I have recently bought a Sigma 10-20 and that is a fun lens indeed and nice and sharp too ;-)
01/17/2007 04:49:36 PM · #10
Leok, that is very interesting, thanks. I want a good general DSLR. I have owned and used Canon 300D & 30D, I was disappointed with the 30D. I don't plan to take any weddings or anthing semi or pro.

Which would you recommend, K100D or K10D for my usage?
01/17/2007 05:34:10 PM · #11
Originally posted by formerlee:

Leok, that is very interesting, thanks. I want a good general DSLR. I have owned and used Canon 300D & 30D, I was disappointed with the 30D. I don't plan to take any weddings or anthing semi or pro.

Which would you recommend, K100D or K10D for my usage?


As you already have the K100D I would stick with that, its a very nice camera, the in camera processing is quite a bit better than the DS I had and used for 8000 shots (i.e. I was pretty happy with that until I went pro) You already have antishake and the rest is not so important for general work IMHO. If you didn't already have the K100D it would depend largely on your budget...

If you ever decide to go pro it may be worth looking at what Pentax offer then rather than buying something now just in case... dSLRs price and performance is still improving significatly with each year.
01/17/2007 05:34:47 PM · #12
Originally posted by formerlee:

Leok, that is very interesting, thanks. I want a good general DSLR. I have owned and used Canon 300D & 30D, I was disappointed with the 30D. I don't plan to take any weddings or anthing semi or pro.

Which would you recommend, K100D or K10D for my usage?


As you already have the K100D I would stick with that, its a very nice camera, the in camera processing is quite a bit better than the DS I had and used for 8000 shots (i.e. I was pretty happy with that until I went pro) You already have antishake and the rest is not so important for general work IMHO. If you didn't already have the K100D it would depend largely on your budget...

If you ever decide to go pro it may be worth looking at what Pentax offer then rather than buying something now just in case... dSLRs price and performance is still improving significatly with each year.
01/17/2007 05:57:14 PM · #13
Just woken up to find all the responses to my questions. Thanks everyone. No-one knows anything about the Pentax 16-45mm f/4.0 lens tho? The (reputable) shop I spoke to didn't either. I wonder if it's new.
01/17/2007 06:14:20 PM · #14
Originally posted by Qiki:

Just woken up to find all the responses to my questions. Thanks everyone. No-one knows anything about the Pentax 16-45mm f/4.0 lens tho? The (reputable) shop I spoke to didn't either. I wonder if it's new.


Well, I've heard lots of great things about it, but I plan on buying the 16-50 when it comes out so it would be silly of me to spend $400cdn on the 16-45 and then another $700-1000 on the 16-50 a few months later. I decided to live with the 18-55 til then.

The forums at dpreview have endless threads with lots of photos taken with the 16-45, with lots of comparisons to the 18-55 and the sigma 17-70.
01/17/2007 06:24:43 PM · #15
Originally posted by option:

The forums at dpreview have endless threads with lots of photos taken with the 16-45, with lots of comparisons to the 18-55 and the sigma 17-70.


Hadn't seen those at dpreview. I'll go have a look.

Cheers,
Q.
01/17/2007 07:00:52 PM · #16
I really thought I was going to buy a K10D. Then I started reading a lot of stuff at dpreview about people having problems getting it to focus is less than perfect light (not very dark, though), and there seemed to be agreement that autofocus doesn't work right when the battery is only half full. I've started thinking that the Nikon D80 might be a better bet, though I really want things like a stabilizer and can't see myself being able to afford stabilized lenses. Right now I really don't know what to do.
01/17/2007 07:18:46 PM · #17
I looked at one at BH yesterday. It had a good feel--though a bit of a weird non-smooth finish on the top/flash area (salesman said that was part of the weatherproofing, but I don't know what to make of that, since I assumed that had only to do with seals.)

It was slower than I would have expected in focus--definitely wasn't "instant" like the D80 seems to be. But I'm not totally sure that matters to me.

Another negative: I was not at all impressed with the 50-200 lens. It rotated in front, and tended to hunt. It was pretty small and light though (and inexpensive).

Otherwise, I liked it. I liked button placement--it has a button for AE and one for AF. I used to program my Rebel XT's AE button to do AF. That way you can focus on something, and then reframe, without holding down the shutter the whole time.

I am also torn between it and the D80. Nikon isn't doing itself any favors by keeping the 18-200 VR in short supply, and letting dealers price gouge it, or I would have bought one by now.

Built in VR/IS/AS seems like the direction I'd rather go anyway. I was shooting my 10-22 on a sunset yesterday, and I could have really used VR/IS/AS.

I don't want to particularly pay Nikon's extreme pricing to buy all VR lenses (which I would try to do), or for that matter Canons (if they had a good 18-200 in the same class as the Nikon I would have considered the 30D) as opposed to the Nikon (since I wouldn't have to change systems).

All in all, the Pentax is still tempting (I always shoot RAW anyway), but I'd have to find the lenses that I wanted in advance.

Just my two cents as always ;)
01/17/2007 07:33:26 PM · #18
Originally posted by nshapiro:

It was slower than I would have expected in focus--definitely wasn't "instant" like the D80 seems to be.


No ultra/super/hyper-sonic AF.... yet.

Originally posted by nshapiro:

I am also torn between it and the D80. Nikon isn't doing itself any favors by keeping the 18-200 VR in short supply, and letting dealers price gouge it, or I would have bought one by now.


Along with weather sealing, that is probably my number one reason for not owning a D80 right now.

Message edited by author 2007-01-17 19:33:46.
01/17/2007 07:37:52 PM · #19
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

I really thought I was going to buy a K10D. Then I started reading a lot of stuff at dpreview about people having problems getting it to focus is less than perfect light (not very dark, though), and there seemed to be agreement that autofocus doesn't work right when the battery is only half full. I've started thinking that the Nikon D80 might be a better bet, though I really want things like a stabilizer and can't see myself being able to afford stabilized lenses. Right now I really don't know what to do.


You have to remember there are a few "measurebators" on the dpreview forums - i.e. camera geeks that like to nitpick. There are also many many people on those forums who love the K10D - I'm one of them.

If you read Phil's review on that site he gives it Highly Recommended - his only hesitation being in camera jpegs not offering an ultra sharp option. This doesnt' bother me as I shoot in RAW (IMHO RAW is one of the big plusses of a dSLR - it gives you much better control of the final image). Phil is VERY tough in his reviews and if there really was a focus issue he would have picked it up.

Have a look in the other forums - Im sure you will find people who feel the nned to criticise any camera you can think of.

If you are really worried buy it from a dealer that has a good exchange policy. Id be very surprised if you need it - but its nice for peace of mind. There is NOTHING out there with the K10Ds range of features at anything like the price. I body SR has saved me thousands of dollars compared with buying image stabilised lenses so it keeps saving you money evey time you buy a lens.
01/17/2007 07:40:13 PM · #20
Originally posted by option:

Originally posted by nshapiro:

It was slower than I would have expected in focus--definitely wasn't "instant" like the D80 seems to be.


No ultra/super/hyper-sonic AF.... yet.

Originally posted by nshapiro:

I am also torn between it and the D80. Nikon isn't doing itself any favors by keeping the 18-200 VR in short supply, and letting dealers price gouge it, or I would have bought one by now.


Along with weather sealing, that is probably my number one reason for not owning a D80 right now.


The K10D is the first Pentax to be compatible with HSM lenses - they should be released very soon and Im sure will improve AF performance significantly.
01/17/2007 07:46:12 PM · #21
Originally posted by Leok:

The K10D is the first Pentax to be compatible with HSM lenses - they should be released very soon and Im sure will improve AF performance significantly.


Hopefully Sigma starts working on the backwards engineering as soon as the new Pentax lenses come out. Theres a few Sigma lenses I want [read: Bigma] but isn't currently available with HSM for Pentax.

Also, I hope it just isn't the DA* lenses that will feature SSM. It'd be real nice to see all the lenses on the roadmap featuring faster AF.
01/18/2007 12:42:21 AM · #22
You are more patient than me - I bought my Bigma and its a lovely toy, I mean I need it for weddings lol
01/22/2007 10:00:56 PM · #23
K10D Firmware v1.10 is now available! The fixes are:

Originally posted by Pentax:

* Using the camera's built-in flash, you can now wirelessly control external Pentax flashes. Previously, you needed an accessory flash mounted in your camera's hot shoe, but now the built-in flash can act as a control flash.
* In autofocus select mode, you can program the AF button to instantly return to the center autofocus point.
* In Tv or Av mode, you can now program the second e-dial to adjust your ISO setting.
* In any exposure mode except Sv and TAv, you can change your ISO setting with the front e-dial while pressing the OK button. The camera will display your ISO in the viewfinder and on the top LCD panel as you adjust your setting.
* In TAv mode, you can program the green button to return to the camera's program line. Previously this functionality was only available in M mode.
* You now have additional options for programming your e-dials in P mode.
* Pressing the green button while adjusting flash exposure compensation will now return you to the default value.
* Corrected an issue in some rare cases where a long exposure might produce a vertical stripe.
* Corrected an issue where the battery charge indicator would sometimes show empty in bulb exposure mode.


Increased programmability and button/dial access for ISO in all modes are the main stories for me. If you can't get the custom settings you want out of this camera now, well, you're damn hard to please!
02/05/2007 02:55:08 PM · #24
I am new here and just purchased the k10d. I was torn between the d80 and this camera, as I have always bought Nikon gear. The more I read in reviews and etc., I started leaning towards the k10d. It was when I held them both in my hands and I fell in love with it. Yes, it's heavier, but it feels good. I think it being heavier cuts down vibrations as well, which in turn could help with image quality.
I am a total newbie, so that's all I have to contribute at the moment. :)
02/05/2007 03:04:26 PM · #25
the K10 by far is pentax's best dslr made. at the camera store i work at i have a chance to play with lots of cameras. the K10 is way improved way better body and features and its definitly nice
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