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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> suggestions for upgrade from 300D
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03/14/2007 12:51:37 AM · #1
I'm looking to upgrade my Canon 300D in the very near future and the obvious candidates appear to be the 30D, 400D and the 5D.
The 400D and 30D appear to be very similar in terms of pricing with the 5D quite a bit more expensive. From what i understand the main difference of the 5D is the fact it has a full frame sensor and additional focus points on the viewfinder.
The 30D/400D seem very similar in terms of the image quality, it seems to be more down to functionality and practicality i.e the placement of buttons, size, build quality.
With all this to bear in mind I am confused about which one would be a decent upgrade from the 300D. Is the 5D really worth the extra money considering I am not likely to print large images and therefor the full frame sensor is not a priority?



03/14/2007 12:56:47 AM · #2
I think th eonly thing to say is 400D, 30D, 5D, 1D... in that order whatever u can afford. You already have a Canon so stick with that lense system. The list is easy its probly more what you can afford.

The question on the 5D is valid i have an opinion but im not a Canon man and all my SLR experience is 35mm. Ill let another Canon owner get into it for you.
03/14/2007 01:05:12 AM · #3
Nikon D80
03/14/2007 01:06:44 AM · #4
lol no Nikons please!
03/14/2007 01:07:27 AM · #5
Originally posted by xXxscarletxXx:

Nikon D80


SCarlet were not all as good with a D80 as you are (Got to hold a D200 today btw its tall big and heavy!).

Honestly theres no point in switching to nikon unless someones ready to pony up what the replacement cost for nikon versions of your lenses will be while selling them.
03/14/2007 01:09:13 AM · #6
well considering I purchased the canon 70-200mm f/4l IS USM lens 2 days ago i'm still having way too much fun to even consider a change over to Nikon!

03/14/2007 01:10:36 AM · #7
Originally posted by dewdodesign:

well considering I purchased the canon 70-200mm f/4l IS USM lens 2 days ago i'm still having way too much fun to even consider a change over to Nikon!


BTW Nikon actually pays commission and Canon doesn't. I wonder how the PR swings with that. Just learned about that today for a camera shop.
03/14/2007 01:16:29 AM · #8
hmmmm that's pretty interesting.....
03/14/2007 01:17:47 AM · #9
anyway scarlet, the last i heard you were looking at buying the 400D? ;o)
03/14/2007 01:25:23 AM · #10
Originally posted by dewdodesign:

anyway scarlet, the last i heard you were looking at buying the 400D? ;o)

Yeah I saw the bigger and better Nikon and took it ^_^
03/14/2007 01:34:58 AM · #11
hehe good on you, i kinda wish I had gone the Nikon route from the start as my canon broke down just after a year... but i guess it's too late nowm, i'm destined to be a canon man forever more :o(
03/14/2007 01:37:05 AM · #12
Originally posted by dewdodesign:

hehe good on you, i kinda wish I had gone the Nikon route from the start as my canon broke down just after a year... but i guess it's too late nowm, i'm destined to be a canon man forever more :o(


It's never too late to come to the dark side.
03/14/2007 01:37:54 AM · #13
Originally posted by dewdodesign:

hehe good on you, i kinda wish I had gone the Nikon route from the start as my canon broke down just after a year... but i guess it's too late nowm, i'm destined to be a canon man forever more :o(


Until your house burns down, or apartment gets broken into. You lose every last peice of Canon equipment.... and the insurance check comes back and for some reason you see Nikon written all over it.
03/14/2007 01:39:20 AM · #14
Originally posted by deapee:

Originally posted by dewdodesign:

hehe good on you, i kinda wish I had gone the Nikon route from the start as my canon broke down just after a year... but i guess it's too late nowm, i'm destined to be a canon man forever more :o(


It's never too late to come to the dark side.

Yes come to the darkside we have cookies!
03/14/2007 01:41:50 AM · #15
You can listen to scarlet but forget the D70 toter. Id actually be that much more convinced to buy any nikon if they had never made the D70 or D70s.

I got to handle a D200, D80, D40. Pentax K100/110 (both). Canon 30D and 400 Rebel XTi today. Id have to say the D80 and 30D fit my hand the best withthe D40 being the worst. The D200 as i said before is tall big and heavy. But it has that pro feel youd expect from looking at the picture of a Nikon F6.
03/14/2007 01:50:17 AM · #16
did someone say cookie?
03/14/2007 02:04:08 AM · #17
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

You can listen to scarlet but forget the D70 toter. Id actually be that much more convinced to buy any nikon if they had never made the D70 or D70s.

I got to handle a D200, D80, D40. Pentax K100/110 (both). Canon 30D and 400 Rebel XTi today. Id have to say the D80 and 30D fit my hand the best withthe D40 being the worst. The D200 as i said before is tall big and heavy. But it has that pro feel youd expect from looking at the picture of a Nikon F6.


I agree 100% with your size assessment, it was very clear to me from the start that I needed a body D80/30D/K10D sized or bigger. Took out quite a few choices with that factor alone! The one that stuck out for me as being poorly built was the Sony A100. I felt like I could break it with my bare hands...

Anyway, if its not pressing that you upgrade right away, why don't you just hold out for the 40D and hope that Canon does something innovative this time around?
03/14/2007 02:05:34 AM · #18
Honestly, there isn't a huge increase in image quality from 300D to any of those cameras outside of the 5D and possibly the 1D. Using the same size sensor doesn't allow for much improvement.

Probably the safest bet for cash is the 400D as it is the newest, has good noise reduction etc... Only real pull to the 30D is hand feel, lighting control (on board PC-sync), and 5FPS.

If you are already quite happy with the 300D and don't feel a major need for 5FPS or full time studio lighting control, you are probably just fine with the 400D.

And don't be so quick to slap Nikon. The D70 is still a very respectable camera. If I had a chance to buy one for really cheap, I probably would. Of course, I'd buy a cheap Pentax digital before the nikon if prices were the same. Nikon doesn't really move past the K10D until D200 as far as I'm concerned.
03/14/2007 02:11:10 AM · #19
I was in no way or form slapping Nikon, just merely stating that I had no intention of joining the dark side at this moment in time :P

Does anyone know when the 40D is due to be released? I read somewhere that the date had been pushed back? Does anyone have any details or specifications about this camera?
03/14/2007 02:13:40 AM · #20
I thought it was just a rumor. Has anything really been announced?
03/14/2007 02:14:01 AM · #21
Id rather by a D40 and deal with the fact that i cant hold it then buy the D70. The D50 is capable and the D80 minus a couple of issues i have with its operation seem to be just fine. At some point in time shouldnt they have already started the D70 phase out.

I have had limited hands on with the D70 but ive limited my hands on time with the D40 to just touching it. My D80 hands on experience is about once a week. Today was the first time i got ahold of a Live 30D.

Ive just seen alot of noise reduction artifacts and what not. Noticible probly not but if i even know its there i dont want much todo with it. My Fuji is locked on RAW and my music is all ALAC Lossless.

Id definatly hold out on the upgrade unless you see what your after. Im going for the K10D and depeding on money the K100D as a backup.

My Olympus is about to crap out and am probly gonna replace it with a Canon A630. I had a full week of hands on with it and with it being lower in price then the A620 i had been looking at 4 months before i like it.
03/14/2007 02:17:10 AM · #22
I upgraded a few months back from a 300D and decided to go for a 5D. Yes it was very much more expensive but it has to be one of the best investments I ever made. It is not just the full frame sensor, or the extra Mp. The quality of detail is fantastic, it holds on to subtle tones in a way that the 300D didn't. If you can afford the extra, don't hesitate, go for a 5D
03/14/2007 02:20:40 AM · #23
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

You can listen to scarlet but forget the D70 toter. Id actually be that much more convinced to buy any nikon if they had never made the D70 or D70s.


hrmm...I didn't mean to imply that the OP get a d70 or d70s, just a simple suggestion to come and join the dark side. I will agree, there are much better Nikon cameras than the d70 available now.
03/14/2007 02:24:36 AM · #24
hmmmm that's interesting to know because ideally I want this to be an upgrade that will last me for a long time and i'm really looking for a semi-pro camera (I can't afford the 1D Pro)
But it's hard to know what the difference actually is between the 5D in the semi-pro category and the 400D in the amateur category especially when there is all this talk about Megapixels which makes it sound like the 400D is miles better than the 5D which in reality it probably isn't?
03/14/2007 02:45:04 AM · #25
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

You can listen to scarlet but forget the D70 toter. Id actually be that much more convinced to buy any nikon if they had never made the D70 or D70s.

I got to handle a D200, D80, D40. Pentax K100/110 (both). Canon 30D and 400 Rebel XTi today. Id have to say the D80 and 30D fit my hand the best withthe D40 being the worst. The D200 as i said before is tall big and heavy. But it has that pro feel youd expect from looking at the picture of a Nikon F6.


No offense dude, but you are telling someone to 'forget the D70 toter' as if advice given by a guy who has been using a DSLR for at least 2 or 3 years has less to say than you who are still satisfied by results from RAW files from a Fuji P&S?

What the heck?

Glad you've had fun playing with some DSLRs for a week, and I agree that low end Nikon cams are a bit chintzy, but it's more than a bit of a stretch to suggest that a D70 is incapable of putting quality images out there. There are probably a half dozen image parameters to adjust.

You are bothered by noise reduction artifacts? Love to know what exactly these might be.

Artifacts are areas of an image that show a specific effect that has been run on a camera. JPG artifacts, oversharpening artifacts, CA artifacts etc...

Noise reduction is generally run on the whole image and is often affected by decreasing of sharpness, contrast and detail. The stronger it is, the more the image appears smudged. Artifacts will generally disappear under such circumstances.

A common artifact in digital images is sharpening artifacts. These often occur in shop models because they usually push the contrast and sharpness up when displaying a model... this gives them punchier images with stronger colors. I noticed a number of these sorts of artifacts when I put 200 pics on a demo D50 in 15 minutes playing around. I wouldn't say this was the fault of the camera, rather the fault lies with using JPGs with excessive in-camera modifications. I generally shoot with low contrast and sharpening.

Set up a D70 right and it will hold its own against most other consumer level DSLRs. The same is probably true of the D40x.

As to the difference between the 5D and the 400D, there is a gargantuan difference. Probably the single largest difference is the size of the individual pixels (actually called 'photosites' on the sensor). This has only an indirect relationship to the number of pixels.

Having very large photosites allows the 5D to have rather insanely low 'signal to noise' ratios. The reason is that by using a larger photosite, there is far more real signal. Even if the digital 'noise' is still pretty much the same as on other sensors, the fact that there is more true 'signal' allows this ratio to be drastically different.

This will give you much cleaner images, and will allow a lot more to be done to them while retaining very high quality. This is a Canon feature and is generally the reason why Canon users are now buying cameras just to have a camera that does a good job rather than looking for all kinds of frilly features. Do the job right from the beginning and everything else becomes much less important.

Another thing that is slightly different between the 300D, 400D, 30D and 5D is that with smaller photosites (on the 400D and 30D) comes a smaller 'circle of confusion'. This leads to a need to have more accurate information coming through the lens. There is something called an anti-aliasing filter between the lens and the sensor which (to put it simply) often has the effect of slightly blurring the image. The 5D (and 300D) has larger photosites, so the anti-aliasing filters are not as strong. The end effect is that you have a slightly sharper image coming out of the camera even with low sharpening done in-camera. You will probably notice that going from the 300D to the 400D or 30D will lead to slightly less sharp images (less so with the 400D as the in-camera sharpening is default to stronger settings) at low sharpening. If you go from the 300D to 5D, you will not notice this problem and will just plain be blown AWAY by the sharpness and detail straight from the camera.
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