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07/02/2007 09:06:29 AM · #1
I hate to start this debate, but my inbox is filling up fast.

Here is the question. If you feel a photo does not meet criteria how do you vote?

I am not asking how this photo or that photo does or doesn't, I just want to know if you feel a photo doesn't meet the criteria, how do you vote.

Agina, I don't want to hear why you think this photo or that photo meets a cirteria, I just want to know how you vote a photo that you don't feel meets criteria.

Please share your opinions so I can get a better idea of what I may be doing wrong during my voting.

Judging by the number of emails I have receive in the last 30 minutes I can see why comments are hard to come by on this site. Funny how they all started with, "I normally don't do this"
07/02/2007 09:14:41 AM · #2
If I feel a image meets the criteria they get a 5, it goes down depending on how bad I feel it missed the challenge. After that score, all other points come from technique and execution. I think a lot would also say that if you don't feel it meets the challenge then just don't vote. Not really a choice for some since they want to vote on all.
edit to add: the submitter has to remember that if one person mentions that they don't think it meets the challenge then so what, it just might be that person, but if there are many saying it then maybe they messed up taking the image. Some have a hard time seeing their own errors (or possible errors).

Message edited by author 2007-07-02 09:18:07.
07/02/2007 09:16:30 AM · #3
I usually let it slide, its not the most important factor for me, but I know others feel very differently
07/02/2007 09:18:26 AM · #4
Originally posted by BHuseman:

Here is the question. If you feel a photo does not meet criteria how do you vote?


1
07/02/2007 09:19:57 AM · #5
If I feel a photo does not meet the challenge I give a 3 for a good shot and a 2 or 1 for a not so good shot. I tend not to comment as much about DNMC because people don't want to hear it. In fact, I don't comment as much as I used to because there are just too many complaints about critiques.
07/02/2007 09:22:54 AM · #6
Amen

Originally posted by chaimelle:

If I feel a photo does not meet the challenge I give a 3 for a good shot and a 2 or 1 for a not so good shot. I tend not to comment as much about DNMC because people don't want to hear it. In fact, I don't comment as much as I used to because there are just too many complaints about critiques.

07/02/2007 09:24:14 AM · #7
You see, you just opened up that wound again, just when it was gettin a little better ;-)
07/02/2007 09:24:30 AM · #8
It gets a 1 from me. Thats why there are free studies...

I don't vote much anyway.
07/02/2007 09:26:30 AM · #9
I will give it less than i would if it had met the challenge criteria, but i would most likely knock 2 off or something around that.
07/02/2007 09:30:52 AM · #10
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

It gets a 1 from me. Thats why there are free studies...

I don't vote much anyway.


I may not be this harsh with my votes but totally agree with you about meeting the challenge topic. If the topic doesn't matter then every challenge is a free study and why bother coming up with topics and discussing the description (or lack there of).

Just my 2 cents.

If a really good photo doesn't seem to meet the topic then it gets no more than a 5 from me (sometimes a 6 if I'm feeling generous). As the quality goes down the score goes down.

I don't generally comment on the DNMC of an image. At least not if that is all I would say. Needless to say, any comment I make on a photo that I also indicate as DNMC doesn't usually get marked as helpful. That helpful box is a whole other discussion though.
07/02/2007 09:32:50 AM · #11
I suspect an email box filling up has something to do with the tone of the comments.
07/02/2007 09:33:36 AM · #12
For me it depend on the degree of how far I feel it varies from the challenge, so in a way it goes back to the discussion you don't want about what meets the challenge :)

I don't have a formula, but I definitely take how well a photo meets the challenge into high consideration when scoring.
07/02/2007 09:36:35 AM · #13
It's pretty rare that I see an entry that DNMC. If I see one I don't understand I spend more time trying to understand the photographer's intent. Many times I won't vote on it in the first round, and I'll come back to it and give it even more time.

If I still don't see how the photo fits the challenge, I'll tell the photographer that. "DNMC" usually does send the photographer into a flailing rage, but there's ways to say that without pissing people off. If you're receiving a surge of complaints about your comments, perhaps you should rethink how you're looking at photos, and then how you're commenting on them.

You need to keep an open mind. Most photos do fit the challenge somehow, even if it is a shoehorn fit. I say "oh come on...." a lot during voting because of the shoehorns fits. Those lose a point from me, because while it technically does fit, it doesn't fit well.

One thing to keep in mind... We've all shoehorned photos into challenges. Photos that just barely meet the challenge criteria. Unfortunately, those are the photos that usually get nailed with DNMC's. However, they're often times a photo that the photographer really really likes and wants to show off. They're photos that people are really attached to, and when they start getting pounded by "DNMC" comments they get mad. Respect the photographer enough to know that it's a photo they're proud of. If they weren't proud they wouldn't have put it in the challenge.

07/02/2007 10:04:40 AM · #14
I've seen photos get ribbons that didn't meet the challenge! I spoke up on the forums and got hammered.

Look at this challenge. The instructions were to take a photo of exactly 2 seconds. The winning picture was taken a 1/2 a sec.

It is a VERY GOOD photo but clearly DNMC. Check the comments on the winner and you'll see mixed reviews.

As I said in other forums on this subject, I did not enter this challenge because I could not get a good 2 sec shot. I was "overexposing" my subject and couldn't get it to work. Then I see that the winner entered 1/2 sec shot. I could have easily gotten a 1/2 sec shot of my subject and at least could have had an shot in the contest.

Well that's my opinion on all this!

07/02/2007 10:08:03 AM · #15
Considering you could do anything/everything on a weekend, I fail to see how any shot could be DNMC unless it shows someone printing the Tuesday edition of a newspaper or something...
07/02/2007 10:11:47 AM · #16
IMO the Weekend Challenge is a Free Study. There should be NO DNMC remarks on this one!

Originally posted by routerguy666:

Considering you could do anything/everything on a weekend, I fail to see how any shot could be DNMC unless it shows someone printing the Tuesday edition of a newspaper or something...
07/02/2007 10:12:51 AM · #17
Originally posted by aliqui:

One thing to keep in mind... We've all shoehorned photos into challenges. Photos that just barely meet the challenge criteria. Unfortunately, those are the photos that usually get nailed with DNMC's. However, they're often times a photo that the photographer really really likes and wants to show off. They're photos that people are really attached to, and when they start getting pounded by "DNMC" comments they get mad. Respect the photographer enough to know that it's a photo they're proud of. If they weren't proud they wouldn't have put it in the challenge.


If a photographer really likes a photo and wants to show it off ... then they should wait and enter it in the free study instead of shoehorning it into a challenge where it will get hammered with DNMC votes ... I think they're getting exactly what they're asking for with a shoehorn ...
07/02/2007 10:15:44 AM · #18
Originally posted by aliqui:

It's pretty rare that I see an entry that DNMC. If I see one I don't understand I spend more time trying to understand the photographer's intent. Many times I won't vote on it in the first round, and I'll come back to it and give it even more time.


Yup, I tend to do that, too. I assume the photographer entered in good faith and I'm just missing something. Even then the worst thing I usually say is that I don't get it, or the processing doesn't appeal to me, plus specifics if I can think of a way to do it differently I might like better. I think I'm a lenient voter, though. I give very high scores to pictures that meet the challenge and are well done, very low ones to the occasional photo that doesn't meet the challenge and is badly taken/processed IMO, and middling ones to everything that meets the challenge but could be better, or doesn't seem to meet the challenge but is otherwise a really nice shot.

I also try (and don't always succeed) to comment on what I do like as well as what I don't or what I'd do differently. Yes, I can be a real Pollyanna sometimes!

And I mark almost every comment helpful no matter how much I disagree with it. Y'all are entitled to your opinions :-)
07/02/2007 10:19:51 AM · #19
Originally posted by kenskid:

I've seen photos get ribbons that didn't meet the challenge! I spoke up on the forums and got hammered.

Look at this challenge. The instructions were to take a photo of exactly 2 seconds. The winning picture was taken a 1/2 a sec.

It is a VERY GOOD photo but clearly DNMC. Check the comments on the winner and you'll see mixed reviews.

As I said in other forums on this subject, I did not enter this challenge because I could not get a good 2 sec shot. I was "overexposing" my subject and couldn't get it to work. Then I see that the winner entered 1/2 sec shot. I could have easily gotten a 1/2 sec shot of my subject and at least could have had an shot in the contest.

Well that's my opinion on all this!


I almost quit the site over that challenge. My entry was exposed for exactly two seconds, but I still got a bunch of stupid comments saying it didn't meet the "spirit of the challenge." Then, the winning entry was only exposed for 1/2 second. F**k that.

I don't knock off huge points for not meeting the challenge because maybe the photographer was trying to convey something and I'm not getting *it*. We read about that in every single challenge. Someone posts that they were trying to do something outside the box, and they lose points on it. I don't usually vote below a 4. I think that it takes a certain amount of courage (especially after you've been here longer than a couple of challengers) to put an image into a challenge to be savaged by us. You deserve 4 points for that, IMHO. I only vote lower than 4 if I think that the image is offensive. If I think it is both offensive, and it was intended to be offensive/disrespectful... then it's a one. For the record, I've only given out 2 ones since I've been here. There was on in a very early challenge I was here for that I initially gave a one, but then went back and changed to a higher score.
07/02/2007 10:28:18 AM · #20
I'll vote 1 or 2 points lower than I would have. So a really good image still has a shot at a decent score.

What I generally *don't* do is explain in comments that I thought the image didn't meet the challenge. All that does is invite an argument. Obviously the submitter thought it met the challenge sufficiently to take a chance on it. So it's obviously a personal choice for him/her and equally a personal choice for me.

07/02/2007 10:34:09 AM · #21
Originally posted by BHuseman:


Please share your opinions so I can get a better idea of what I may be doing wrong during my voting.


I don't need to tell you anything about voting. You can do no wrong when you vote. It's your business and no one else's.

Originally posted by BHuseman:


Judging by the number of emails I have receive in the last 30 minutes I can see why comments are hard to come by on this site. Funny how they all started with, "I normally don't do this"


As far as commenting goes, I went to your profile and sampled some of yours. BTW, Wow. You really comment a lot compared to voting. That's great. However, in the first few comments I find you copping a bad-ass attitude and going all kung-fu with a anti-religion attitude. You need to turn this off while commenting *IF* you don't want your inbox to fill up. It's that simple. Either that or you need to grow a set of nads and just clean out the inbox every now and again. ;) Don't let conflict keep you from commenting. You really make some wonderful comments that will help people with their photography. (yeah, I didn't just read the first few)
07/02/2007 10:37:29 AM · #22
I find that there are sometimes misunderstandings which look like DNMCs. If the photo sort of doesn't meet the challenge then I deduct a point or two.

So, say there is an excellent photo, but it's totally shoehorned into the challenge, then, instead of giving it a 7 I'll give it a 5. Giving 1's is a bit brutal in my opinion.

And then there are the photos that really have nothing to do with the challenge topic. If that is the case, I generally don't vote on it at all.

As someone else said in this thread, I don't comment on the DNMCs because I don't want to get the emails. And another thing... regarding contacting the voter... just don't. It's ueber-tacky, regardless of how misunderstood you feel.
07/02/2007 10:41:46 AM · #23
aliqui,

I understand what you are saying, but have to disagree. I do think everyone has shoehorned a photo from time to time, but that doesn't make it OK. If you are proud of a photo and need to show it off, just post it and ask for comments, there is no need ot enter a challenge. Also, if you enter a great photo that DNMC, all you do is get a nice image blasted by low votes. To me, even if Ansel Adams shoehorned a photo, I would still give it a 1 for DNMC. It is the point of the site to have categorized challenges. If you want to put any photo in, enter a free study. I have shoehorned photos before, but I had no intention of getting good scores.

There are many DNMC in every contest for the most part. I don't think that the connection should be that "out of the box". As with any kind of art, if the audience doesn't understand it, they are not going to like it.
07/02/2007 10:50:31 AM · #24
short one: giving 1,2 or 3 for "thinking" it's a DNMC is wrong IMHO.
07/02/2007 10:50:46 AM · #25
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:



There are many DNMC in every contest for the most part. I don't think that the connection should be that "out of the box". As with any kind of art, if the audience doesn't understand it, they are not going to like it.


You have a point there - if the majority of people don't get it or don't see the photographer's intention, then it wasn't conveyed well enough. I still won't give 1s for DNMC's, though.

I've submitted photos to challenges where it made perfect sense to me how it fit, but it didn't make sense to the votership. Result - a not-so-good score. When I see a DNMC, I've got to assume that the photographer intended to meet the challenge, but missed the mark. Which is why I won't penalize severely with my score.
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